Biggest improvement between a car and its direct successor

[anonymous-user]

Truckosaurus said:

The new A-class is pretty much a Megane

Keep it down, the last thing A class owners want to hear is that their example of German reliability and Teutonic build quality shares an awful lot of components with an unreliable Renault.

Actually I love seeing A180s and pointing out it has the same engine as my shonky old Megane

[Roger Irrelevant]

Truckosaurus said:

s94wht said:

Old style A Class to new?

The original A-class was a genius piece of design with lots of clever features especially around crash worthiness, all spoiled by the 'moose test'.

The new A-class is pretty much a Megane

Yep, I know they're one of the cars it's cool to bash but we had an original A-Class and it was great - small enough to be dead easy to park in a busy city, cheap enough that two skint 20-somethings straight out of uni could afford it, but easy to get bikes and lots of stuff in thanks to the removable seats. The new one is a hatchback and...that's it.

[300bhp/ton]

Carguy44 said:

alscar said:

Nickbrapp said:

Land Rover defender and the new model, better in every single way.

I’m sure you’re absolutely right other than in how it looks, what it costs and the fact it won’t get under your skin.
I accept this may mean better for some.

I prefer the look of the new one and the old ones were rather expensive for what they were. To be honest I think the old ones are awful things, I do get why people might like them though.

The odd thing is, loads of people love a Range Rover classic or even a Discovery. Which by and large ride, handle and drive just like a Defender. Mostly because under the body they are exactly the same vehicles. Different spring rates, RR softer, Disco stiffer. But they are really really similar. The only difference is the body.

As for pricing. A new Defender 90 pickup in 2012 was £17k+ VAT

The last of the line Defender 90 CSW with good spec was something like £25-28k in 2016.

The new Defender started at about £55k only 3 years later. Simply a huge difference in price.

Looking at the LR site now, the starting price if you want one is £64,000!!!!



How anyone can claim the old one was is expensive is beyond belief really.

[GroundEffect]

B256 to B299 Fiesta. Significant improvement.

[300bhp/ton]

samoht said:

Quite a few from the glory days of the Japanese car industry:

Nissan Bluebird (dull taxi) to Nissan Primera (150hp & 'ring-tuned chassis)
Nissan 300ZX Z31 to Z32
Toyota Supra A70 to A80
Mazda RX-7 FC to FD
Toyota Space Cruiser (forward control van-based MPV) to Previa Mk1
Nissan Skyline R31 to R32

In many cases the newer car was no heavier but much better looking, better rigidity, double wishbone suspension, more sophisticated and substantially more powerful engine, torsen diffs etc etc.

The all feel like evolutionary steps, minor mostly. Bar maybe the Bluebird. R31 Skyline looks way better than R32 IMO. Could possible say the same with the Z31.

[gazza285]

Surely the aircooled Beatle being replaced by the Mk1 Golf was the biggest improvement, it was far superior in every single possible way.

[Gad-Westy]

Ferrari 348 to 355

The vw up is massively better than the Fox. Though frankly so was the lupo that predated the fox.

Did the jag xf replace the s-type?

[shtu]

Timberwolf said:

Are there any other times where a manufacturer has made a like-for-like replacement of an outgoing model with a car that is hugely better? Any even more so than the Escort to Focus?

VW Beetle to MK1 Golf has to be right up there. Set the template for small family cars for decades after.

(edit - missed the above post arriving )

Edited by shtu on Tuesday 31st January 19:37

[Mr Ben]

Perhaps looking through rose tinted glasses and due to the fact that I only ever owned the latter, but, as a young impressionable teen in my first ‘office’ job surrounded by slick young sales account managers in the telecoms sector, watching them switch into (and enjoying passenger rides in) E46 coupes from E36’s seemed quite the leap!

[Dave.]

Discovery 2 to Discovery 3?

[Carguy44]

300bhp/ton said:

Carguy44 said:

alscar said:

Nickbrapp said:

Land Rover defender and the new model, better in every single way.

I’m sure you’re absolutely right other than in how it looks, what it costs and the fact it won’t get under your skin.
I accept this may mean better for some.

I prefer the look of the new one and the old ones were rather expensive for what they were. To be honest I think the old ones are awful things, I do get why people might like them though.

The odd thing is, loads of people love a Range Rover classic or even a Discovery. Which by and large ride, handle and drive just like a Defender. Mostly because under the body they are exactly the same vehicles. Different spring rates, RR softer, Disco stiffer. But they are really really similar. The only difference is the body.

As for pricing. A new Defender 90 pickup in 2012 was £17k+ VAT

The last of the line Defender 90 CSW with good spec was something like £25-28k in 2016.

The new Defender started at about £55k only 3 years later. Simply a huge difference in price.

Looking at the LR site now, the starting price if you want one is £64,000!!!!



How anyone can claim the old one was is expensive is beyond belief really.

Have another read at what I said about the price of them.

[300bhp/ton]

Gad-Westy said:

Did the jag xf replace the s-type?

Yes the XF replaced the S-Type. But the S-Type was awesome and much better looking than the XF. The XF is also really just an S-Type in a different frock.

[InitialDave]

I'm struggling to think of anything that really betters the Escort to Focus example.

Though much as I like old Fiat Pandas, the replacement of the 141 model with the 169 in 2003 was a huge difference.

[jamesbilluk]

More recently, the prius, I actually quite like the new one! Although it's not coming here.

[MYOB]

Don’t know when so can’t be precise, but didn’t Skodas (Octavias and Superbs) have a huge positive transformation overnight?

[NomduJour]

300bhp/ton said:

Looking at the LR site now, the starting price if you want one is £64,000!!!!

How anyone can claim the old one was is expensive is beyond belief really.

A new 90 Hard Top is £43,804 plus VAT. The cheapest, most basic 90 Hard Top in 2015 was £23k plus VAT, so something like £32k plus VAT now (depending on which inflation calculator you use).

The old one was very expensive for something so dated and compromised.

[Jag_NE]

MYOB said:

Don’t know when so can’t be precise, but didn’t Skodas (Octavias and Superbs) have a huge positive transformation overnight?

Great shout. Those first VAG cars were a seismic improvement and transformed the entire brand to a far greater extent than the Focus did for Ford.

[samoht]

jamesbilluk said:

More recently, the prius, I actually quite like the new one! Although it's not coming here.

Perhaps it looks like a big jump because you've jumped over the in-between fourth generation car:

[300bhp/ton]

NomduJour said:

A new 90 Hard Top is £43,804 plus VAT. The cheapest, most basic 90 Hard Top in 2015 was £23k plus VAT, so something like £32k plus VAT now (depending on which inflation calculator you use).

The old one was very expensive for something so dated and compromised.

Does your PC/phone not show pictures? I took it straight from the LR website. Clearly showing what is available. And it wasn’t £43k.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 31st January 22:11

[jamesbilluk]

samoht said:

Perhaps it looks like a big jump because you've jumped over the in-between fourth generation car:

Ah, I thought I had added it, certainly saved to my gallery.

Still better looking than the previous model to me!