Newer cars, old engines
Discussion
griffsomething said:
Ever so slightly off topic but I’ve always wondered that because the Disco 3/4 and first gen Range Rover Sport share the same chassis underneath, if you could body swap a Disco 4 onto the RRS 5.0 SC chassis and running gear.
Then you’d get the big, practical, and timeless Discovery shape, but with the socking great big V8 instead of a cam-snapping, sooty, rattly diesel.
There's a company called MDRS who have put the 5.0 supercharged V8 in a Discovery... can't remember if it was a 3 or a 4 though.Then you’d get the big, practical, and timeless Discovery shape, but with the socking great big V8 instead of a cam-snapping, sooty, rattly diesel.
Triumph Man said:
Various topics have been covered over the years as to what new engines people would to transplant in old cars, but what about the inverse? What about old engines in new cars?
To kick off, I’d love to see a rover v8 in a discovery 4 - perhaps a late 4.6 when they just about had acceptable power levels. I think the woofly laziness would suit a discovery 4.
Another one would be either the Yamaha 4.4 v8 or the 3.2 Volvo 6 in the latest S90 - an otherwise great looking executive car saddled with 4 banger donkey engines.
I think that Rover V8 is the most overrated engine in the world. It's only lionised in the UK because when it first appeared all anyone here had experiened was rubbish like the BMC B series and side valve Rovers.To kick off, I’d love to see a rover v8 in a discovery 4 - perhaps a late 4.6 when they just about had acceptable power levels. I think the woofly laziness would suit a discovery 4.
Another one would be either the Yamaha 4.4 v8 or the 3.2 Volvo 6 in the latest S90 - an otherwise great looking executive car saddled with 4 banger donkey engines.
By the early 80s it was pretty crap and by the 90s it was a joke, it only lasted past the early 80s because of the herculean efforts that had been made to run our motor industry into the ground.
They put a 4.4 litre version of the port injected Jaguar AJ-V8 in the Disco 3 and sold them in the UK, and in global markets the later direct injected 5.0 Jaguar V8 was available in the Disco 4. 380bhp, huge spread of torque thanks to variable valve timing and lift, and a genuine 20mpg+ sounds a lot more appealing than 10mpg from that wheezing, gasping, fragile old Rover donkey struggling to put out 220bhp from 4.6 litres.
To answer the question though, I can't think of a single modern performance engine that's as charismatic or as fun to use as the ones we had 10-25 years ago, the only people who can possibly think we've seen "progress" from an enthusiasts point of view are people who judge cars on top trumps figures alone.
For example even the old supercharged SOHC Mercedes M112 3.2 V6 from 2000 would be a far more enjoyable thing in a C class than this dismal four pot hybrid thing now, without getting into legends like the M156, the BMW S62 and S65 V8s, bloody hell even the madcap half baked VAG stuff.
The only positive progress seemed to be when direct injection enabled very high power with just about acceptable fuel economy. Unfortunately all too often they also came with lame-o turbochargers too.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Wednesday 1st May 10:50
Triumph Man said:
Various topics have been covered over the years as to what new engines people would to transplant in old cars, but what about the inverse? What about old engines in new cars?
To kick off, I’d love to see a rover v8 in a discovery 4 - perhaps a late 4.6 when they just about had acceptable power levels. I think the woofly laziness would suit a discovery 4.
Another one would be either the Yamaha 4.4 v8 or the 3.2 Volvo 6 in the latest S90 - an otherwise great looking executive car saddled with 4 banger donkey engines.
Doubt (m)any made it to uk roads but the RoW already has a v8 disco 4. At just shy of 400bhp it’s acceptable given the weight where’s the 4.4 from the previous version was about as slow as you would want to go. Disco 2 v8 was woeful, I for one certainly wouldn’t want a rover lump in there, the exhaust note with the modern engine is easily changed for some woofle if you want it. To kick off, I’d love to see a rover v8 in a discovery 4 - perhaps a late 4.6 when they just about had acceptable power levels. I think the woofly laziness would suit a discovery 4.
Another one would be either the Yamaha 4.4 v8 or the 3.2 Volvo 6 in the latest S90 - an otherwise great looking executive car saddled with 4 banger donkey engines.
Triumph Man said:
griffsomething said:
Ever so slightly off topic but I’ve always wondered that because the Disco 3/4 and first gen Range Rover Sport share the same chassis underneath, if you could body swap a Disco 4 onto the RRS 5.0 SC chassis and running gear.
Then you’d get the big, practical, and timeless Discovery shape, but with the socking great big V8 instead of a cam-snapping, sooty, rattly diesel.
There's a company called MDRS who have put the 5.0 supercharged V8 in a Discovery... can't remember if it was a 3 or a 4 though.Then you’d get the big, practical, and timeless Discovery shape, but with the socking great big V8 instead of a cam-snapping, sooty, rattly diesel.
GeniusOfLove said:
I think that Rover V8 is the most overrated engine in the world. It's only lionised in the UK because when it first appeared all anyone here had experiened was rubbish like the BMC B series and side valve Rovers.
By the early 80s it was pretty crap and by the 90s it was a joke, it only lasted past the early 80s because of the herculean efforts that had been made to run our motor industry into the ground.
They put the Jaguar AJ-V8 in the Disco 3 and sold them in the UK, and in global markets the later 5.0 Jaguar V8 was available in the Disco 4. That wheezing, gasping, fragile old Rover donkey couldn't hold a candle to either of those.
I can't think of a single modern performance engine that's as charismatic or as fun to use as the ones we had 10-20 years ago, the only people who can possibly think we've seen "progress" from an enthusiasts point of view are people who judge cars on top trumps figures alone.
While I wouldn't disagree that the old Rover V8 is a dinosaur in most respects (as are most engines that were designed in the 50s), you touched on what makes it special in your last paragraph. For all its limitations and its issues, it is charismatic. Makes a lovely (very distinctive) noise, and it's also light and very compact as well, which is why it worked so well in stuff like TVRs and Morgans. By the early 80s it was pretty crap and by the 90s it was a joke, it only lasted past the early 80s because of the herculean efforts that had been made to run our motor industry into the ground.
They put the Jaguar AJ-V8 in the Disco 3 and sold them in the UK, and in global markets the later 5.0 Jaguar V8 was available in the Disco 4. That wheezing, gasping, fragile old Rover donkey couldn't hold a candle to either of those.
I can't think of a single modern performance engine that's as charismatic or as fun to use as the ones we had 10-20 years ago, the only people who can possibly think we've seen "progress" from an enthusiasts point of view are people who judge cars on top trumps figures alone.
I'd also disagree that it's especially fragile. Like most all-aluminium engines, it can be ruined very quickly by overheating, and they do have a habit of munching their cams like a lot of flat tappet engines, but otherwise they go on and on. My cousin and I pulled a 4.6 out of a very neglected 204,000 mile P38 a couple of years ago and despite discovering jet black gunge inside the rocker covers where there should have been oil, and cam lobes that were no longer the right shape, it had driven to the workshop, down on power but running very smoothly. It still started on the key, and idled quietly and evenly. When we took the heads off, it still had the cross hatching visible on the bores. They are known for being incredibly tolerant engines, in that they will keep on running even when they have quite serious issues.
Is it the best V8 in the world? Of course not. But they are lovely old things, IMO.
The issue with this is a bit 'don't meet your heroes' coupled with rose tinted glasses.
I don't actually want to go back to 9mpg, 250bhp N/A V8s with zero power for the first 4,000rpm when my 4.4 V8 from today does well over double the power across all the rev range at mid 20s mpg.
Did a banger rally in 2022. Amazing just how poor old cars, especially their engines (even healthy ones) actually are compared to modern ones.
Yes, 4 pot turbos are ubiquitous, but they were just N/A 1.6 4 pots producing 100bhp before they were turboed.
Good engines are still available. They're just loads better than they used to be.
I don't actually want to go back to 9mpg, 250bhp N/A V8s with zero power for the first 4,000rpm when my 4.4 V8 from today does well over double the power across all the rev range at mid 20s mpg.
Did a banger rally in 2022. Amazing just how poor old cars, especially their engines (even healthy ones) actually are compared to modern ones.
Yes, 4 pot turbos are ubiquitous, but they were just N/A 1.6 4 pots producing 100bhp before they were turboed.
Good engines are still available. They're just loads better than they used to be.
Edited by Baldchap on Wednesday 1st May 12:08
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