Group 20 SuperCar Club Goes Bust....
Discussion
Davey S2 said:
An outfit called Amante9 in Cardiff folded after a couple of months. They had nice cars and premises and had a big champagne reception to promote the launch and it then went t1ts up in a few months.
I suspect the problem was simply having limited funds to launch the club & an expectation/reliance of immediately signing a large number of members. The members didn't materialise and the owners couldn't keep it going without plowing £££s into it.
I totally agree with 'the snail'. The idea and concept were/are very good, its USP is superb. The problem is it has to be well run and managed especially with the 'different' terms and conditions.
Ecurie 25 has now sort of taken it over (to a certain degree) Ecurie are now looking to Francise, however they HAVE been set up for sometime and seem to work very very well, they seem to be well managed and live in the real world, unlike certain aspects of Group 20.
The major problem(s) with Group 20 were the managment 9or lack of any proper managment) and the advertising. So mcu was wated early on with out much thought or real results. Then as budget got tighter so the advertising was dropped (right there and then it spirals downward)
Its a shame the cars had to go, however (im sure to get shot for this) there was nothing to special apart from the Zonda. The other cars you could see on the streets of London. However I do like GT3's!!! Glad the Zonda went to a special home though.
Although it would be inapropriate to comment on Gary Franklin himself. He has the gift of the gab. Sadly thats about it. He knowlingly lied and took peoples money knowing they had no hope of making a profit. He knew the business was in trouble yet said 'the business is moving forward'
I expect the writing off of the F430 didnt help!
Ecurie 25 has now sort of taken it over (to a certain degree) Ecurie are now looking to Francise, however they HAVE been set up for sometime and seem to work very very well, they seem to be well managed and live in the real world, unlike certain aspects of Group 20.
The major problem(s) with Group 20 were the managment 9or lack of any proper managment) and the advertising. So mcu was wated early on with out much thought or real results. Then as budget got tighter so the advertising was dropped (right there and then it spirals downward)
Its a shame the cars had to go, however (im sure to get shot for this) there was nothing to special apart from the Zonda. The other cars you could see on the streets of London. However I do like GT3's!!! Glad the Zonda went to a special home though.
Although it would be inapropriate to comment on Gary Franklin himself. He has the gift of the gab. Sadly thats about it. He knowlingly lied and took peoples money knowing they had no hope of making a profit. He knew the business was in trouble yet said 'the business is moving forward'
I expect the writing off of the F430 didnt help!
I have spent a lot of time researching car clubs as I did think about setting one up last year. The reality is, there isn't much money to be made out of it. Just take at look at the companies house accounts, most of these companies are making very little money with the worst being Rio Prestige with a 800k loss for 2006-2007.
I agree with you Huggybear, not only was G20 mis-managed, but it was run by a crim whose only interest was selling franchises. I can only assume that a lot of these were purchased by disillusioned franchisees who thought that there was easy money to be made. G20 was a one trick pony which had very little over established clubs such as P1.
A lot of you seem to be plugging ecurie, not sure why, I think they will really struggle in the current market. Members are predominantly city jocks and since the takeover by quadriga and change in their points system, ecurie are failing to keep up with P1 in terms of their fleet and value for money. Most of their cars are dated even though their membership cost is getting similar to P1. At £4 a mile for the DBS at ecurie, you would be far better off at P1 or even a hire company. A quick look at PH classifieds, in particular zero one cars shows that ecurie's F430 coupe, F430 spyder, Granturismo, Vantage convertible, R8, Bentley CGT, Gallardo Spyders and GT3 RS are all up for sale. Not that this is a bad thing, these kind of clubs rotate stock regularly, P1 has several of their cars for sale too but both these clubs' cars have been up for sale for a long time and are not selling even though they were the cheapest out there. Given that P1 offer free delivery in Central London, there is no comparison in terms of the fleet especially since ecurie have sold their Murcielago and no longer have a V12 Italian supercar.
The reality is that any club/hire company with depreciating assets in the current climate is going to be f**ked and may end up owing more on the finance than the asset is worth. I was offered a black 08 DBS with 800 miles on the clock last week for £122k inc VAT. On that basis, I can not see how any company that bought one in the last 3-6 months would be able to turn a profit on that car even if it was out every weekend.
I think the only clubs that will survive are the ones with low overheads, non depreciating assets and low entry point such as classic car club, parc ferme or clubgt. They seem to be the only ones with a viable business model.
Only in recent weeks, Group20, Segrave and apparently Club Velocita have all gone out of business. I can only see that the other newly formed clubs such as Driving Spirit, Marque 2 and Quadriga will soon follow, this is not an easy market to make money in.
I agree with you Huggybear, not only was G20 mis-managed, but it was run by a crim whose only interest was selling franchises. I can only assume that a lot of these were purchased by disillusioned franchisees who thought that there was easy money to be made. G20 was a one trick pony which had very little over established clubs such as P1.
A lot of you seem to be plugging ecurie, not sure why, I think they will really struggle in the current market. Members are predominantly city jocks and since the takeover by quadriga and change in their points system, ecurie are failing to keep up with P1 in terms of their fleet and value for money. Most of their cars are dated even though their membership cost is getting similar to P1. At £4 a mile for the DBS at ecurie, you would be far better off at P1 or even a hire company. A quick look at PH classifieds, in particular zero one cars shows that ecurie's F430 coupe, F430 spyder, Granturismo, Vantage convertible, R8, Bentley CGT, Gallardo Spyders and GT3 RS are all up for sale. Not that this is a bad thing, these kind of clubs rotate stock regularly, P1 has several of their cars for sale too but both these clubs' cars have been up for sale for a long time and are not selling even though they were the cheapest out there. Given that P1 offer free delivery in Central London, there is no comparison in terms of the fleet especially since ecurie have sold their Murcielago and no longer have a V12 Italian supercar.
The reality is that any club/hire company with depreciating assets in the current climate is going to be f**ked and may end up owing more on the finance than the asset is worth. I was offered a black 08 DBS with 800 miles on the clock last week for £122k inc VAT. On that basis, I can not see how any company that bought one in the last 3-6 months would be able to turn a profit on that car even if it was out every weekend.
I think the only clubs that will survive are the ones with low overheads, non depreciating assets and low entry point such as classic car club, parc ferme or clubgt. They seem to be the only ones with a viable business model.
Only in recent weeks, Group20, Segrave and apparently Club Velocita have all gone out of business. I can only see that the other newly formed clubs such as Driving Spirit, Marque 2 and Quadriga will soon follow, this is not an easy market to make money in.
close call, no mention at this point of the year about poor investment, (12th post down) maybe they were not aware at this point? i suspect they were however 
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Pvapour on Tuesday 11th November 14:04
t the bed, it was setup by Nick Hancock who partly masterminded P1 too!henryj said:
I have spent a lot of time researching car clubs as I did think about setting one up last year. The reality is, there isn't much money to be made out of it. Just take at look at the companies house accounts, most of these companies are making very little money with the worst being Rio Prestige with a 800k loss for 2006-2007.
I agree with you Huggybear, not only was G20 mis-managed, but it was run by a crim whose only interest was selling franchises. I can only assume that a lot of these were purchased by disillusioned franchisees who thought that there was easy money to be made. G20 was a one trick pony which had very little over established clubs such as P1.
A lot of you seem to be plugging ecurie, not sure why, I think they will really struggle in the current market. Members are predominantly city jocks and since the takeover by quadriga and change in their points system, ecurie are failing to keep up with P1 in terms of their fleet and value for money. Most of their cars are dated even though their membership cost is getting similar to P1. At £4 a mile for the DBS at ecurie, you would be far better off at P1 or even a hire company. A quick look at PH classifieds, in particular zero one cars shows that ecurie's F430 coupe, F430 spyder, Granturismo, Vantage convertible, R8, Bentley CGT, Gallardo Spyders and GT3 RS are all up for sale. Not that this is a bad thing, these kind of clubs rotate stock regularly, P1 has several of their cars for sale too but both these clubs' cars have been up for sale for a long time and are not selling even though they were the cheapest out there. Given that P1 offer free delivery in Central London, there is no comparison in terms of the fleet especially since ecurie have sold their Murcielago and no longer have a V12 Italian supercar.
The reality is that any club/hire company with depreciating assets in the current climate is going to be f**ked and may end up owing more on the finance than the asset is worth. I was offered a black 08 DBS with 800 miles on the clock last week for £122k inc VAT. On that basis, I can not see how any company that bought one in the last 3-6 months would be able to turn a profit on that car even if it was out every weekend.
I think the only clubs that will survive are the ones with low overheads, non depreciating assets and low entry point such as classic car club, parc ferme or clubgt. They seem to be the only ones with a viable business model.
Only in recent weeks, Group20, Segrave and apparently Club Velocita have all gone out of business. I can only see that the other newly formed clubs such as Driving Spirit, Marque 2 and Quadriga will soon follow, this is not an easy market to make money in.
Sorry, bit late to this one but I'm flattered that you think I'm a "City Jock", but alas I'm not.I agree with you Huggybear, not only was G20 mis-managed, but it was run by a crim whose only interest was selling franchises. I can only assume that a lot of these were purchased by disillusioned franchisees who thought that there was easy money to be made. G20 was a one trick pony which had very little over established clubs such as P1.
A lot of you seem to be plugging ecurie, not sure why, I think they will really struggle in the current market. Members are predominantly city jocks and since the takeover by quadriga and change in their points system, ecurie are failing to keep up with P1 in terms of their fleet and value for money. Most of their cars are dated even though their membership cost is getting similar to P1. At £4 a mile for the DBS at ecurie, you would be far better off at P1 or even a hire company. A quick look at PH classifieds, in particular zero one cars shows that ecurie's F430 coupe, F430 spyder, Granturismo, Vantage convertible, R8, Bentley CGT, Gallardo Spyders and GT3 RS are all up for sale. Not that this is a bad thing, these kind of clubs rotate stock regularly, P1 has several of their cars for sale too but both these clubs' cars have been up for sale for a long time and are not selling even though they were the cheapest out there. Given that P1 offer free delivery in Central London, there is no comparison in terms of the fleet especially since ecurie have sold their Murcielago and no longer have a V12 Italian supercar.
The reality is that any club/hire company with depreciating assets in the current climate is going to be f**ked and may end up owing more on the finance than the asset is worth. I was offered a black 08 DBS with 800 miles on the clock last week for £122k inc VAT. On that basis, I can not see how any company that bought one in the last 3-6 months would be able to turn a profit on that car even if it was out every weekend.
I think the only clubs that will survive are the ones with low overheads, non depreciating assets and low entry point such as classic car club, parc ferme or clubgt. They seem to be the only ones with a viable business model.
Only in recent weeks, Group20, Segrave and apparently Club Velocita have all gone out of business. I can only see that the other newly formed clubs such as Driving Spirit, Marque 2 and Quadriga will soon follow, this is not an easy market to make money in.
For me, the new Ecurie system has almost doubled the amount of cars and days I can take out. Yes, people that ran the top tier cars right to their milage limit "lost out" with the change, but the fact is that P1 works out at about £2 per mile only *if* you use up your mileage, otherwise it can cost a whole lot more, where as whilst the DBS does indeed "cost" £4 per mile, the fact is that you don't join a club like this to just drive one car.
I'm very happy with my Maserati "costing" me a massive £1 per mile, as I am sure many others in P1 are also happy with it costing them more.
Instead of saying one is clearly better than the other, and hence suggesting Ecurie is in trouble, I suggest you realise that this is a free market, and despite their best efforts P1 failed to convince me it was anything near the value that Ecurie gives to me overal. For instance, that free drop of is totally useless if you aren't in the city (but then, perhaps P1 is after your city 'jocks' as you call them).
And of course you could always join both if you wanted to "play" the differences between the sytems....
Each year I evaluate the market, and each year I'll make my mind up. If P1 becomes better value I'll probably jump, but for the last 3 years, given the cars I want to drive, where I want to drive them, and for how long, P1 has never matched what ecurie gives me.
J
just to resurrect a dead thread, this weeks news re Gary Franklin / Group 20,
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2010/j...
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2010/j...
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