Does an Mx3 corner better than a Lotus Elise ?
Discussion
Noger said:
Ah, but greater lateral force isn't "better cornering" necessarily.
Force = Mass x Acceleration. An Elise has a bit less Mass than an MX3 - so will have greater acceleration (i.e change in direction) round a corner.
A great comment from someone who clearly doesn't know their arse from their elbow.Force = Mass x Acceleration. An Elise has a bit less Mass than an MX3 - so will have greater acceleration (i.e change in direction) round a corner.
Cornering G is a measure of acceleration.
Why the 1.8 V6 ?
It is a development of the 2.5 litre K series Mazda unit ( NOT to be confused with vastly inferior Rover KV6 unit )
http://www.tsentraal.ee/mx6/engine/SAE920677.htm
Gives full details of the k engine design philosphy and and technical improvements. A keries engine has been run to over one million miles without suffering undue wear.
It is smoother than an equivalent I4, is more mechanically robust, has a better spread of torque, and is wonderfully flexible in any gear.
It also sounds wonderful, with a proper intake roar from the filter.
I would rate it above any other 1.8 engine, inculding the very clever honda units...they have a great top end, but they lack the low down shove and flexibility of a V6.
It is a development of the 2.5 litre K series Mazda unit ( NOT to be confused with vastly inferior Rover KV6 unit )
http://www.tsentraal.ee/mx6/engine/SAE920677.htm
Gives full details of the k engine design philosphy and and technical improvements. A keries engine has been run to over one million miles without suffering undue wear.
It is smoother than an equivalent I4, is more mechanically robust, has a better spread of torque, and is wonderfully flexible in any gear.
It also sounds wonderful, with a proper intake roar from the filter.
I would rate it above any other 1.8 engine, inculding the very clever honda units...they have a great top end, but they lack the low down shove and flexibility of a V6.
ExPat2B said:
I would rate it above any other 1.8 engine, inculding the very clever honda units...they have a great top end, but they lack the low down shove and flexibility of a V6.
Low down shove? You have to rev the tits off them to get any power at all! I agree they make a good noise though.hairykrishna said:
ExPat2B said:
I would rate it above any other 1.8 engine, inculding the very clever honda units...they have a great top end, but they lack the low down shove and flexibility of a V6.
Low down shove? You have to rev the tits off them to get any power at all! I agree they make a good noise though.Mazda claimed 116lbft@5300 for the 1.8 in the MX-3 against 135lbft@5000 for the 2.0 in the 323, so I wouldn't be surprised if the MX-3's low rev output is broadly comparable to the 1.8 VTEC's.
power
torque
(Graphs are hub dyno figures, so somewhere between a typical flywheel and wheel figure)
+1 for the noise, there are quite a few videos of them on the web. I always liked the MX-3, and the V6 323-F, and would have owned either at some point if the opportunity had come about. Wasn't the fuel economy not so good compared to a four, though?
Edited by otolith on Tuesday 31st March 15:13
durbster said:
Aren't MX-3s all imports? A mate of mine had an imported one and I assumed they all were since you don't see them very often. They are nice looking cars 
Mine wasn't. I think they're group 15/16 or something though. It was a nice enough car; good to look at, very well built, interesting engine etc. I just found myself wishing for a real sports car every time I drive it. They should have done an MX5 variant using the dinky little V6.Hi All,
I know this is an old thread but I was horrified by some of the misconceptions posted about the MX-3, so I'd thought I'd clear them up.
Firstly, the 1.8 V6 is a 24 valve quad cam engine designated the K8, Mazda never made a 12V variant of the K series engine. The 1.8 is pretty much the same engine as the 2.0 (KF) and 2.5 (KL) V6's, only difference being the bore and stroke, that's pretty much it apart from different cams which varied in profile.
Bit worrying from the advert, "ticks over at 400 rpm" it should be 650 +/- 50 rpm.
Not all MX's were imported, there are plenty of official UK spec ones about. The main imported ones were the 1.5s (as the UK spec one is 1.6) often referred to as the Eunos (like the MX-5) ladled as the MZ-3, AZ-3 or Autozam. There are improted 1.8s though. The UK spec 1.8 K8DE is rated at 130hp and the Jap 1.8 K8ZE is rated at 137hp. Easiest way to spot an import (just incase no one knows, but I suspect you propb do) is the shape of the number plate gap on the rear bumper. The Jap ones are smaller to accomodate the smaller plate.
Insurance group is 17 officially, but depending on where you get it can be higher or lower.
The torque is spread pretty much across the whole rev range, so you don't need to rev the b*llocks off them to get any decent performance. This is a result of the MX using VRIS (Variable resonance induction system)It has a multi length inlet manifold which changes in length activated by solenoids at various RMP. This makes the torque curve pretty flat from approx 2.5k rpm all the way to 6.5k rpm. Giving the reason most think you need to rev it to the red line to get it to go anywhere.
It has also been said (I've never tried!) that the K series V6 is so smooth, that you can balance a 50p on it's end on the rocker cover and rev it to the redline without it falling over.
As for out handling an Elise! I doubt that. Even though they are good in the corners they're not that good. The passive rear wheel steering can be a bit twitchy at times resulting in lift off oversteer but most of the time it under steers like mad!
Over all they are good little coupe's. Sporty for what they are and come with excellent grippy but comfy standard suspension. Interior is a bit drab and dated by todays standards but still good. Steering is quick and the close ratio gearbox gives a feeling of a bit quicker acceleration. This does result in poor fuel economy if you hammer it but if you drive it normally you should get between 30 - 32 mpg, bit more on a motorway run.
Anyone interested in buying one few things to look out for.
As mentioned in the ad, the accordion intake pipe gets brittle over the years and does split. Only option of repair is to buy a second hand one, which will split again. Tape it up with gaffa tape, or buy a CAI or fabricate your own one.
Coil springs are known to break
CV's are weak and known to clunk like mad on lock.
Coil pack built into the Disty is known to breakdown due to the heat from the front bank of cylinders. There is an external coil mod for this or a repair service on ebay.
The K series is non interference too, so if a cambelt ever snaps, don'y worry too much as it 'should' be fine. I say should as some have suffered valve damage due to the engine speed when the belt broke, high RPM's.
That's all I can think of. Over all bullet proof motors.
And as a bonus the 2.5 V6 from the MX-6 or Ford Probe slots straight in without modification! If you are doing this swap though get the Jap spec KLZE 2.5 as it boasts 200hp compared to the UK spec KLDE 2.5 of 164hp as it has lower compression pistons.
I'm on my second MX-3 and both were excellent cars and never let me down. Only bought a second as I missed my first one so much when I sold it!
I know this is an old thread but I was horrified by some of the misconceptions posted about the MX-3, so I'd thought I'd clear them up.
Firstly, the 1.8 V6 is a 24 valve quad cam engine designated the K8, Mazda never made a 12V variant of the K series engine. The 1.8 is pretty much the same engine as the 2.0 (KF) and 2.5 (KL) V6's, only difference being the bore and stroke, that's pretty much it apart from different cams which varied in profile.
Bit worrying from the advert, "ticks over at 400 rpm" it should be 650 +/- 50 rpm.
Not all MX's were imported, there are plenty of official UK spec ones about. The main imported ones were the 1.5s (as the UK spec one is 1.6) often referred to as the Eunos (like the MX-5) ladled as the MZ-3, AZ-3 or Autozam. There are improted 1.8s though. The UK spec 1.8 K8DE is rated at 130hp and the Jap 1.8 K8ZE is rated at 137hp. Easiest way to spot an import (just incase no one knows, but I suspect you propb do) is the shape of the number plate gap on the rear bumper. The Jap ones are smaller to accomodate the smaller plate.
Insurance group is 17 officially, but depending on where you get it can be higher or lower.
The torque is spread pretty much across the whole rev range, so you don't need to rev the b*llocks off them to get any decent performance. This is a result of the MX using VRIS (Variable resonance induction system)It has a multi length inlet manifold which changes in length activated by solenoids at various RMP. This makes the torque curve pretty flat from approx 2.5k rpm all the way to 6.5k rpm. Giving the reason most think you need to rev it to the red line to get it to go anywhere.
It has also been said (I've never tried!) that the K series V6 is so smooth, that you can balance a 50p on it's end on the rocker cover and rev it to the redline without it falling over.
As for out handling an Elise! I doubt that. Even though they are good in the corners they're not that good. The passive rear wheel steering can be a bit twitchy at times resulting in lift off oversteer but most of the time it under steers like mad!
Over all they are good little coupe's. Sporty for what they are and come with excellent grippy but comfy standard suspension. Interior is a bit drab and dated by todays standards but still good. Steering is quick and the close ratio gearbox gives a feeling of a bit quicker acceleration. This does result in poor fuel economy if you hammer it but if you drive it normally you should get between 30 - 32 mpg, bit more on a motorway run.
Anyone interested in buying one few things to look out for.
As mentioned in the ad, the accordion intake pipe gets brittle over the years and does split. Only option of repair is to buy a second hand one, which will split again. Tape it up with gaffa tape, or buy a CAI or fabricate your own one.
Coil springs are known to break
CV's are weak and known to clunk like mad on lock.
Coil pack built into the Disty is known to breakdown due to the heat from the front bank of cylinders. There is an external coil mod for this or a repair service on ebay.
The K series is non interference too, so if a cambelt ever snaps, don'y worry too much as it 'should' be fine. I say should as some have suffered valve damage due to the engine speed when the belt broke, high RPM's.
That's all I can think of. Over all bullet proof motors.
And as a bonus the 2.5 V6 from the MX-6 or Ford Probe slots straight in without modification! If you are doing this swap though get the Jap spec KLZE 2.5 as it boasts 200hp compared to the UK spec KLDE 2.5 of 164hp as it has lower compression pistons.
I'm on my second MX-3 and both were excellent cars and never let me down. Only bought a second as I missed my first one so much when I sold it!
Edited by Mikey1980 on Thursday 21st May 14:13
Edited by Mikey1980 on Thursday 21st May 14:42
Mikey1980 said:
Mazda never made a 12V variant of the K series engine.
Suggest you contact these people to get that info corrected then.http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
Slightly off topic, but what's wrong with the KV6? kambites said:
Sounds possible. Assuming no down-force, skid pan performance is almost entirely down to the tyres.
Wouldn't overall roll resistance have a significant effect too? As excess roll will unload the inside tyres and prevent them doing their fair share of the work, so a vehicle with the same tyres but a narrower track/higher centre of mass/softer springs etc will give a worse result.
GravelBen said:
Wouldn't overall roll resistance have a significant effect too?
As excess roll will unload the inside tyres and prevent them doing their fair share of the work, so a vehicle with the same tyres but a narrower track/higher centre of mass/softer springs etc will give a worse result.
Probably, although I suspect not as much as the tyres. I don't know which would roll more anyway, in this case. The Elise has quite soft suspension. As excess roll will unload the inside tyres and prevent them doing their fair share of the work, so a vehicle with the same tyres but a narrower track/higher centre of mass/softer springs etc will give a worse result.
For years - before they learnt to make them handle in the real world - Corvettes used to top the skid pan lateral g tests that Road and Track did. As did the Citroen Xantia Activa at one stage.
Steady-state grip on a smooth skid pan is a fairly simple question of matching centripetal force to the friction generated between the road and the tyres. Actually making a car handle dynamically on a real road (or even a real track) can be very different.
Steady-state grip on a smooth skid pan is a fairly simple question of matching centripetal force to the friction generated between the road and the tyres. Actually making a car handle dynamically on a real road (or even a real track) can be very different.
kambites said:
Probably, although I suspect not as much as the tyres. I don't know which would roll more anyway, in this case. The Elise has quite soft suspension.
Wonder how the centre of mass would compare? Elise being a much lower car overall but having the engine fairly high up IIRC, maybe a wider track though.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff