Going from FWD to RWD.Hints & tips please!
Discussion
Just drive it like you would any other unfamiliar car and get to learn its habits. They don't habitually bite any more than FWD ones do.
Oh, about the lifting off, an instructor on a BMW course I did many years ago told us to dip the clutch when correcting oversteer, so that the engine was completely out of the equation and you were just correcting the slide with the steering.
This of course was how to correct the slide, not how to ride it out for three laps
It sounded odd and I'm sure that not many instructors would agree with it, but it seemed to work for most of the students, though the only advantage I found was that I didn't have to restart the engine once I'd stopped spinning.
Oh, about the lifting off, an instructor on a BMW course I did many years ago told us to dip the clutch when correcting oversteer, so that the engine was completely out of the equation and you were just correcting the slide with the steering.
This of course was how to correct the slide, not how to ride it out for three laps
It sounded odd and I'm sure that not many instructors would agree with it, but it seemed to work for most of the students, though the only advantage I found was that I didn't have to restart the engine once I'd stopped spinning.
kambites said:
Splats said:
Over and above everything that has been said already remember the golden rule:
If the back end goes, back-off the throttle....DO NOT LIFT
9/10 if you panic and come completely off the gas you'll convert power over-steer into lift-off over-steer.
That's nothing new though, FWD cars lift-off oversteer too. If the back end goes, back-off the throttle....DO NOT LIFT
9/10 if you panic and come completely off the gas you'll convert power over-steer into lift-off over-steer.
OP asked what he needs to know to drive a RWD car. Most people who get power over-steer for the first time will instinctively lift-off and this is nearly always wrong. I therefore believe it to be highly relevant to the conversation to inform OP that 'backing off' > 'lifting off'
until you're used to it just don't ask the tyres to do several things in an extreme manner at once i.e. corner and brake or accelerate and corner. get smooth then get fast.
and if you get chance, find a big empty wet car park and (without being too much of a nuisance) get used to the feel of where it lets go.
good luck, hope you enjoy moving to rwd.
and if you get chance, find a big empty wet car park and (without being too much of a nuisance) get used to the feel of where it lets go.
good luck, hope you enjoy moving to rwd.
Alfanatic said:
Just drive it like you would any other unfamiliar car and get to learn its habits. They don't habitually bite any more than FWD ones do.
Oh, about the lifting off, an instructor on a BMW course I did many years ago told us to dip the clutch when correcting oversteer, so that the engine was completely out of the equation and you were just correcting the slide with the steering.
This of course was how to correct the slide, not how to ride it out for three laps
It sounded odd and I'm sure that not many instructors would agree with it, but it seemed to work for most of the students, though the only advantage I found was that I didn't have to restart the engine once I'd stopped spinning.
I once did a skid pan course and was taught just that, lose control, dip the clutch, catch the slide.Oh, about the lifting off, an instructor on a BMW course I did many years ago told us to dip the clutch when correcting oversteer, so that the engine was completely out of the equation and you were just correcting the slide with the steering.
This of course was how to correct the slide, not how to ride it out for three laps
It sounded odd and I'm sure that not many instructors would agree with it, but it seemed to work for most of the students, though the only advantage I found was that I didn't have to restart the engine once I'd stopped spinning.
As someone who was just to catching a car by lifting off a tad I found that to a rather strange thing to do.
However, I've no doubt that for a non-enthusiast driver that one bit of advice could be a life safer.
Splats said:
Maybe I need to drive more RWD cars, I can't imagine my S2000 would have done anything other than spin if I dipped the clutch when there was some momentum in the rear end. When it got playful you had to do everything smoothly or you'd get bitten.
Snow is going to be a little different to normal driving conditions though I'd guess, you're travelling slower so the effect of the weight transfer will be reduced, and once you break traction through wheel spin you aren't going to regain it by keeping your foot in.Never had any problems doing lifting off when my MX-5 was sliding in snow, never driven my Elise in snowy conditions though.
Edited by Thorburn on Thursday 2nd December 17:29
I went from a Fieta 1.25 to a 1.8 (130bhp) mk1 MX5.
Just ease it around for the first day or so, find a quiet place and have a play - to get a feel for the car of course!
I found it most 'iffy' if you put the power down in 2nd, away from the lights for instance and then go over a damp/wet manhole cover. You soon learn to look out for them.
Just ease it around for the first day or so, find a quiet place and have a play - to get a feel for the car of course!
I found it most 'iffy' if you put the power down in 2nd, away from the lights for instance and then go over a damp/wet manhole cover. You soon learn to look out for them.
Splats said:
Who said anything about FWD cars? I fail to see how it is relevant to the conversation that FWD cars can get out of shape with lift-off.
OP asked what he needs to know to drive a RWD car. Most people who get power over-steer for the first time will instinctively lift-off and this is nearly always wrong. I therefore believe it to be highly relevant to the conversation to inform OP that 'backing off' > 'lifting off'
The OP asked what he had to know when changing from a string of FWD cars to a RWD car. I think he already knows how to drive...OP asked what he needs to know to drive a RWD car. Most people who get power over-steer for the first time will instinctively lift-off and this is nearly always wrong. I therefore believe it to be highly relevant to the conversation to inform OP that 'backing off' > 'lifting off'
Edited by kambites on Thursday 2nd December 18:08
Thorburn said:
Splats said:
Maybe I need to drive more RWD cars, I can't imagine my S2000 would have done anything other than spin if I dipped the clutch when there was some momentum in the rear end. When it got playful you had to do everything smoothly or you'd get bitten.
Snow is going to be a little different to normal driving conditions though I'd guess, you're travelling slower so the effect of the weight transfer will be reduced, and once you break traction through wheel spin you aren't going to regain it by keeping your foot in.Never had any problems doing lifting off when my MX-5 was sliding in snow, never driven my Elise in snowy conditions though.
Edited by Thorburn on Thursday 2nd December 17:29
kambites said:
Splats said:
Who said anything about FWD cars? I fail to see how it is relevant to the conversation that FWD cars can get out of shape with lift-off.
OP asked what he needs to know to drive a RWD car. Most people who get power over-steer for the first time will instinctively lift-off and this is nearly always wrong. I therefore believe it to be highly relevant to the conversation to inform OP that 'backing off' > 'lifting off'
The OP asked what he had to know when changing from a string of FWD cars to a RWD car. I think he already knows how to drive...OP asked what he needs to know to drive a RWD car. Most people who get power over-steer for the first time will instinctively lift-off and this is nearly always wrong. I therefore believe it to be highly relevant to the conversation to inform OP that 'backing off' > 'lifting off'
Edited by kambites on Thursday 2nd December 18:08
every time i read stuff like this it makes me realise how much help it is to any driver learning to ride a motorbike.
most important thing of all, smoothness. everything should be about that. good throttle control, hazard perception, anything else you can think of. if it's smooth it'll be right.
most important thing of all, smoothness. everything should be about that. good throttle control, hazard perception, anything else you can think of. if it's smooth it'll be right.
Yes, but they know they are driving a RWD car and they know why the back end is coming out. The first few times I drove a RWD car I snap-closed the throttle the instant I felt the back go...and I had come from a Saxo VTS, the king of lift-off oversteer. It took a bit for me to stop over-reacting.
y282 said:
most important thing of all, smoothness. everything should be about that. good throttle control, hazard perception, anything else you can think of. if it's smooth it'll be right.
Spot on, end of thread IMHO.The key is not to over-react, jump of the gas and start flailing wildly at the wheel (for a start you'll probably spin off in the opposite direction when the car gets grip again). Stay calm, stay smooth.
Here is a good example of whacking in too much opposite lock and not taking it off!
Also, that vid is lift-off oversteer galore
Splats said:
Yes, but they know they are driving a RWD car and they know why the back end is coming out. The first few times I drove a RWD car I snap-closed the throttle the instant I felt the back go...and I had come from a Saxo VTS, the king of lift-off oversteer. It took a bit for me to stop over-reacting.
Hmm, fair enough. I always find going from time in a FWD car back to RWD, that I expect all oversteer to be lift-off so I have to think quite hard to avoid increasing the throttle opening when the back end goes under power. kambites said:
Splats said:
Yes, but they know they are driving a RWD car and they know why the back end is coming out. The first few times I drove a RWD car I snap-closed the throttle the instant I felt the back go...and I had come from a Saxo VTS, the king of lift-off oversteer. It took a bit for me to stop over-reacting.
Hmm, fair enough. I always find going from time in a FWD car back to RWD, that I expect all oversteer to be lift-off so I have to think quite hard to avoid increasing the throttle opening when the back end goes under power. 
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