Pre accident value - am i getting ripped off
Discussion
richierex said:
should i be allowed to discuss matters with the third party myself? If i could explain to the third party insurance that i would happily stop the hire car costs for the extra 850 (so a cheque for £7350 in lieu) then that will save them possibly thousands in the mean time. Im not sure if this breaks any contract with kindertons or AAH though.
I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
IF you do speak to the TPI then just be careful that you don't prejudice your position regarding the hire charges - if you offer to end the hire before you get the cheque then the TPI would likely ask you why you needed a hire vehicle at all.I feel as though i shouldnt have to fight my corner and make this call anyway, but when i speak to kindertons they really dont seem that bothered in phoning the third party and speaking to them anyway :s
mkopc said:
IF you do speak to the TPI then just be careful that you don't prejudice your position regarding the hire charges - if you offer to end the hire before you get the cheque then the TPI would likely ask you why you needed a hire vehicle at all.
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
ArmaghMan said:
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.
They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
Until they take the car away, because he's either hit the time limit, or he gets the bill for the hire car for being a stubborn buggerThey will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
ArmaghMan said:
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.
They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
Like for like car hire for as long as possible, frivolous personal injury claims. Don't tell me, you're going to be complaining about the high cost of insurance next They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
hora said:
Am I reading it this right? The car was written off 1-2 times previously and you want market value?
I read it as he's just paid £13k for a car knowing it had been written off and through no fault of his own is being offered 1/2 of that as an insurance settlement, a figure that wouldn't even buy a car that hadn't been repaired. Quite openly stated that he's not expecting his money back but wants a fair price which at the moment he's not getting. If clean similar age millage and similar age M3's are going for between £11-13K then a cat D must be worth around £8-10k not £6k
Ed. said:
ArmaghMan said:
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.
They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
Like for like car hire for as long as possible, frivolous personal injury claims. Don't tell me, you're going to be complaining about the high cost of insurance next They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
mercfunder said:
Ed. said:
ArmaghMan said:
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.
They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
Like for like car hire for as long as possible, frivolous personal injury claims. Don't tell me, you're going to be complaining about the high cost of insurance next They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
I dont agree with all this ambulance chasing and insane like for like hire car fees but when the insurance companies take the piss they do leave themselves open to it.
Have a read of this of my dealings with the insurance company.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
no where near the same values as you are talking about but the principle is the same, hope it helps.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
no where near the same values as you are talking about but the principle is the same, hope it helps.
andye30m3 said:
mercfunder said:
Ed. said:
ArmaghMan said:
make it absolutely clear that you want £xxxx for your car and are quite happy to argue the toss til hell freezes over, and continue to drive about in acar costing them £yyy every single day.
They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
Like for like car hire for as long as possible, frivolous personal injury claims. Don't tell me, you're going to be complaining about the high cost of insurance next They will see reason.
I also assume that the cost of the motor will be a fraction of the personal injury settlement.
I dont agree with all this ambulance chasing and insane like for like hire car fees but when the insurance companies take the piss they do leave themselves open to it.
ts they are. But the idea that because you have an accident in a 10 year old car, you should hire a brand new version of that car is frankly ludicrous, an it is the additional costs of this and the ambulance chasers which are pushing up everybody else's insurance. There was a bloke from the ABI on the radio the other day saying that insurers last year paid out in the region of £1.15 for every £ they took in premium, and that this was unacceptable, thus everyone was going to have to pay more, it is the daft like for like car hire and personal injury claims which are pushing up the payouts, not the cost of repairs.
richierex said:
hello everyone, ill give a brief outline of the situation first.
I was involved in an accident about 3 weeks ago. I was stationary and someone went into the o/s/r of my car and then slid down the side of it (he was behind me approaching). The car got recovered to the bodyshop and after a few days i got a call to say that the car was a total loss. The estimate was around £10,000. The car is a BMW M3 52plate 2002 car coupe, 49000miles in black, hardtop. I was also aware when i bought the car it was a write off that had been rectified althoug there was no evidence of this. The car drove perfectly and looked amazing.
Now, i bought the car for what i knew was above the value (taking into account the previous writeoff). However after viewing lots of crap this one drove lovely and with no signs of the writeoff i thought it would be ok. I paid £13000 7 months ago. The prices have gone down a little since but not too much i think.
Now, heres my problem. I spokt to the assessor and he said he was offering me £6500 with £780 salvage. I knew a first offer would be low but after a second phone call he said he wasnt willing to raise that figure. I gave him 11 examples of cars with the same age from private buyers with higher milage as i couldnt find any that low. They were around the 11-13000 mark. I alse explained that the only cars around the figure he was offering was one i found on ebay with a blown engine! He then told me that the car had been involved in 2 writeoffs before and that the repair was sub standard because of the amount of filler used (i wasnt aware of this when i bought the car but the panels and gaps looked very straight). He also said there was a power issue that was there before the accident. I was adimant that the pre accident condition was A1 and disputed this but he stuck to his word. He would not offer me any more than the figure.
I told him i couldnt buy any equivalent car with the money he was offering and he said my car was in such a bad way before the accident with a chequered history that there was no equivalent model to my car. I was shocked at this because of how well it drove beforehand, which reflected its low milage. I was also a little annoyed at his attitude as he was so sure the car was in a bad condition beforehand. When i dug further i realised he wasnt the assessor who looked at the car, but rather an inhouse one (whatever that is) who had pictures and a report from the guy who looked at the car.
I then tried to go down a different route. I had previously discussed with the bodyshop the repairs and they agreed to do them for £7350 (contract price). I asked him that instead of writing the car off can i have it repaired at the fixed price of £850 more than he was offering. TO substitute this i would happily give up my £260 a day hire car. He wasnt interested in the hire car price being an independant assessor and still said no to the repairs!
Finally, i have emailed the actual assessor after finding his email address and have shown him that aswell as the private market going for around 11-13K for cars like this there are also examples of damaged unrepaired m3s with higher milage going for around the £6000 mark. THis is without repairs done. I found these on ebays history, and aswell as this there is a cat D repaired car on there at the moment for 7.5K with 3 days left.
All my evidence suggests that the car is worth more than whats offered but i dont know where to go from here really if they come back with the same answer of no more than 6.5K. I would ideally like the £7350 to repair the car and not have this hassle as i would like to keep the car i have. I didnt realise i would be so far out of pocket from someone elses driving mistakes.
any help or comments would be appreciated
rich
Hi RichI was involved in an accident about 3 weeks ago. I was stationary and someone went into the o/s/r of my car and then slid down the side of it (he was behind me approaching). The car got recovered to the bodyshop and after a few days i got a call to say that the car was a total loss. The estimate was around £10,000. The car is a BMW M3 52plate 2002 car coupe, 49000miles in black, hardtop. I was also aware when i bought the car it was a write off that had been rectified althoug there was no evidence of this. The car drove perfectly and looked amazing.
Now, i bought the car for what i knew was above the value (taking into account the previous writeoff). However after viewing lots of crap this one drove lovely and with no signs of the writeoff i thought it would be ok. I paid £13000 7 months ago. The prices have gone down a little since but not too much i think.
Now, heres my problem. I spokt to the assessor and he said he was offering me £6500 with £780 salvage. I knew a first offer would be low but after a second phone call he said he wasnt willing to raise that figure. I gave him 11 examples of cars with the same age from private buyers with higher milage as i couldnt find any that low. They were around the 11-13000 mark. I alse explained that the only cars around the figure he was offering was one i found on ebay with a blown engine! He then told me that the car had been involved in 2 writeoffs before and that the repair was sub standard because of the amount of filler used (i wasnt aware of this when i bought the car but the panels and gaps looked very straight). He also said there was a power issue that was there before the accident. I was adimant that the pre accident condition was A1 and disputed this but he stuck to his word. He would not offer me any more than the figure.
I told him i couldnt buy any equivalent car with the money he was offering and he said my car was in such a bad way before the accident with a chequered history that there was no equivalent model to my car. I was shocked at this because of how well it drove beforehand, which reflected its low milage. I was also a little annoyed at his attitude as he was so sure the car was in a bad condition beforehand. When i dug further i realised he wasnt the assessor who looked at the car, but rather an inhouse one (whatever that is) who had pictures and a report from the guy who looked at the car.
I then tried to go down a different route. I had previously discussed with the bodyshop the repairs and they agreed to do them for £7350 (contract price). I asked him that instead of writing the car off can i have it repaired at the fixed price of £850 more than he was offering. TO substitute this i would happily give up my £260 a day hire car. He wasnt interested in the hire car price being an independant assessor and still said no to the repairs!
Finally, i have emailed the actual assessor after finding his email address and have shown him that aswell as the private market going for around 11-13K for cars like this there are also examples of damaged unrepaired m3s with higher milage going for around the £6000 mark. THis is without repairs done. I found these on ebays history, and aswell as this there is a cat D repaired car on there at the moment for 7.5K with 3 days left.
All my evidence suggests that the car is worth more than whats offered but i dont know where to go from here really if they come back with the same answer of no more than 6.5K. I would ideally like the £7350 to repair the car and not have this hassle as i would like to keep the car i have. I didnt realise i would be so far out of pocket from someone elses driving mistakes.
any help or comments would be appreciated
rich
Its a shame that you've been put into this position through no fault of your own.
Reading above you don't seem to have gone through your own insurance company, am I reading this right?
Pembertons are an accident management company, their main purpose is to 1). provide you with car hire, and 2). claim a percentage from the repairer's repair costs, not to mention a referral fee from their preferred solicitor for your personal injury claim - I assume they've advised you to make one - regardless of the level of injury
I am an independant assessor and I come across JP Morris reports - always as an opponent! JP Morris are the assessors that Pemberton's use so they should be working to get you the fairest deal possible, without lying or making a fraudulent report or anything.
Glasses Guide is the industry standard used to determine pre-accident values on vehicles. I have looked up your vehicle, these are the details that I have used:
BMW M3 Coupe 3.2 manual, 52/2002 with 49000 miles.
Retail is £12,050.00
Private/Trade is £9,500.00
You have also tated that your vehicle was a previous total loss/write off but not which category, C or D.
If it was a cat C (the more serious where the costs of repairs would have exceeed the pre-accident value at the time of the collision) you would expect to be offered Private/Trade value at the most, using theabove figures above this would be £9,500.00 - this being conditional on the repairs having been completed satisfactorily using new (not used) parts and having had a new MOT and a vehicle identity check (VIC) by DVLA.
I would have expected an offer to have been in the region of £7,800.00 with a salvage fee of 15% £1,170.00.
If it was a Cat D (constructive total loss where the repairs were somewhere between 65 - 99% of the pre-accident value - inclusive os any possible car hire costs etc).
I would have expected an offer of approx £9,000.00 with a salvage fee of @20% £1,800.00.
In essence based only on the information provided by you here I feel that you have been offered a low settlement.
Where you claims person offered you the settlement, the salvage fee would be deducted from the payout, not additional to it unless the insurer takes the vehicle away for salvage.
The Ombudsman will only act for you if you are making a complaint against YOUR OWN INSURER they cannot act for you against a 3rd party insurer.
BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT STAYING IN THE HIRE CAR - IT IS NOT A LOAN CAR!
You can and will be liable for the hire vehicle costs if Pembertons cannot claim their costs from the third party insurer, there is not compunction for the third party insurer to meet any costs that they can show to be unreasonable and this will include providing a hire care at £180 per day without THEIR agreement, that's why Pembertons will have got you to sign the paperwork, including an indemnity. Insurance Companies are fighting back, that's who I do all of my work for.
Hoping this helps, all the best
sorry to hear about you problem
but ive had very serious problems arising from my insurance broker useing kindertons
this seems to be the modern way of handeling insurance claims, through take-all
sod you accident manegment companies who chase the money and dont give a ste about
the very ones who pay the premiums
hope this work out for you
but be prepered from the start to use the (big guns, ombusman+trading standards)
as these people dont give two stes about the average guy
i will start my own post to tell whats happend to me in the hope it doesnt happen
to anyone else, these people and most insurance brokers are leeches who are
happy takeing you hard earned cash, but with little in return when you need them
(expensive covernote comes to mind)
but ive had very serious problems arising from my insurance broker useing kindertons
this seems to be the modern way of handeling insurance claims, through take-all
sod you accident manegment companies who chase the money and dont give a s
te aboutthe very ones who pay the premiums
hope this work out for you
but be prepered from the start to use the (big guns, ombusman+trading standards)
as these people dont give two s
tes about the average guyi will start my own post to tell whats happend to me in the hope it doesnt happen
to anyone else, these people and most insurance brokers are leeches who are
happy takeing you hard earned cash, but with little in return when you need them
(expensive covernote comes to mind)
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