RE: Driven: BMW M5

[Zwoelf]

Trommel said:

Zwoelf said:

the ZF 8HP as employed by the ALPINA in the B5 ... can take up to 1000Nm/738lb ft so the 700Nm/516lb ft of that still has plenty of room for "improvement" before worrying too much about troubling the transmission unduly...

The one in the B5 is an 8HP70 rated to 700Nm (I think), which would explain why it is pegged at 700Nm from 2500 to 5000 rpm.

That could arse things up then, surprised there's no spare redundancy manufactured in for a later "S" model. Suppose that would then be too close to stamping on M5's toes in terms of official power outputs.

Probably won't stop the map muppets though...

Edited by Zwoelf on Monday 26th September 13:12

[LuS1fer]

It sounds amazing but on a largely irrelevant point, where do these cars go in about 10 years time and they've depreciated to affordable levels - are they still going to be worth buying or are they now using such expensive components that they are all destined for an early bath?

How much does it cost to replace the twin clutches, for example, in terms of labour, or is it a case of less wear on either clutch - do they both get replaced at the same time - feel free to fire away as I have no idea how these modern gearboxes work.

[Trommel]

Zwoelf said:

Probably won't stop the map muppets though...

Hasn't done with Range Rovers and I think they use some version of the 8HP, also pegged at 700Nm as standard.

There are other versions - RR Ghost has an 8HP90.

[Zwoelf]

Trommel said:

There are other versions - RR Ghost has an 8HP90.

As will the 760Li presumably at 550lb ft - 750/760Nm ish?

[philmots]

I do prefer the standard smaller multi-spoke wheels to the optional blingy ones.

[iNick]

Quite a few websites now reporting this engine noise through the stereo story.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/bmw-m5...

[jbi]

iNick said:

Quite a few websites now reporting this engine noise through the stereo story.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/bmw-m5...

quite liked one persons interpretation

"Next they will replace the windshield with a television screen and mount a camera on the hood."

[Trommel]

What a stupid, hateful idea.

[E38Ross]

Trommel said:

What a stupid, hateful idea.

willing to bet if no-one had told you, you wouldn't know it was there....and if they didn't implement it, you'd moan it was too quiet...?

[Trommel]

E38Ross said:

willing to bet if no-one had told you, you wouldn't know it was there....and if they didn't implement it, you'd moan it was too quiet...?

So why not make it sound decent in the first place instead of faking it?

Wrong on every level, hugely so for an M car.

[E38Ross]

Trommel said:

E38Ross said:

willing to bet if no-one had told you, you wouldn't know it was there....and if they didn't implement it, you'd moan it was too quiet...?

So why not make it sound decent in the first place instead of faking it?

little bit more tricky with turbo cars though, i can't admit i'm happy with the idea, but i am happy with the fact they've at least recognised a lack of noise an issue with an M car.

[Trommel]

E38Ross said:

little bit more tricky with turbo cars though

Plenty of turbocharged cars sound great. It's a depressing development.

[E38Ross]

Trommel said:

E38Ross said:

little bit more tricky with turbo cars though

Plenty of turbocharged cars sound great. It's a depressing development.

I'll wait until I hear it before holding judgement. If you can't tell its not directly from the engine is think I could live with it.

[Trommel]

Would you go to a concert where the band only pretended to play and you had to listen to a recording on headphones?

[E38Ross]

Trommel said:

Would you go to a concert where the band only pretended to play and you had to listen to a recording on headphones?

No, but the music is the whole part of a concert, is it not? I'd be more concerned about how it was as a car to be honest, an aftermarket exhaust will probably change the lack of noise.

[Trommel]

Surely it's more the point that someone at M GmbH decided that they'd rather play piped Muzak through the stereo than make their newest, most powerful, fastest figurehead of a car sound decent in the first place.

[Zwoelf]

E38Ross said:

No, but the music is the whole part of a concert, is it not?

Not in the slightest, otherwise you could stay at home and listen to a better quality recording of the same music on a CD/iPod.

Trommel said:

Surely it's more the point that someone at M GmbH decided that they'd rather play piped Muzak through the stereo than make their newest, most powerful, fastest figurehead of a car sound decent in the first place.

I'd expect it more of the Japanese, finding an electronic and synthetic solution to an analogue and physical challenge.

McLaren faced similar criticism over the relatively uninspiring engine note of the initial MP4-12Cs as tested by the press. They responded by physically re-engineering the car to deliver more engine sound to the cabin, rather than take an electronic solution (which they could also have done). Not a problem faced by the F1 with its NA V12 and overhead air intake and large carbon airbox right behind the driver's head - again, mostly induction noise from a BMW Motorsport engine providing the thrills.

Fitting a fruitier-sounding exhaust is one thing and at least is an engineering approach, however it's still the simpler solution. BMW M engines do their best aural work at the intake end of things rather than exhaust, but many people don't make that distinction.

[Ramses]

Trommel said:

Surely it's more the point that someone at M GmbH decided that they'd rather play piped Muzak through the stereo than make their newest, most powerful, fastest figurehead of a car sound decent in the first place.

Not necessarily the point though. With modern legislation (noise/emissions/etc) is become more and more difficult to make engines sound good.

If this minimises cabin noise (wind/road noise) whilst still giving engine noise, it could be a great anti-nanny state solution.


It could also just be huge PR, spoof story to get headlines.

[Ramses]

Trommel said:

Plenty of turbocharged cars sound great. It's a depressing development.

Which 2011 developed turbo cars sound great?

[Ramses]

Zwoelf said:

McLaren faced similar criticism over the relatively uninspiring engine note of the initial MP4-12Cs as tested by the press. They responded by physically re-engineering the car to deliver more engine sound to the cabin, rather than take an electronic solution (which they could also have done).

They have sacrificed cabin refinement in doing so though. Not an issue in a £200k supercar that spends a large proportion of its time being 'driven' - but a very big issue in a £60k exec saloon that spends a large part of its time being a luxary saloon.