RE: SOTW: Rover 420 GSi Turbo

[MGJohn]

anything fast said:

I quite like the BRM one, and the loud trim..

Careful there. You are wise to get your coat. This is PH. The home of infestations of Rover hater hatters... mad as in fact ...

I 'came out' with liking them early on in my PH 'career' and life has been a hellish misery ever since.... Good job my shoulders are broad. My aspiration.... One day, I'll own a Focus and become a valued part of the PH community...

[BeirutTaxi]

MGJohn said:

Careful there. You are wise to get your coat. This is PH. The home of infestations of Rover hater hatters... mad as in fact ...

I 'came out' with liking them early on in my PH 'career' and life has been a hellish misery ever since.... Good job my shoulders are broad. My aspiration.... One day, I'll own a Focus and become a valued part of the PH community...

On the contrary John, nearly all of the decent PH'ers have a dislike not for brands but instead for crappy cars.

Rover SD1 is a classic case in point, I'm by no means a Rover fan but I think despite it's weak points (which there are many) it's a desirable car. Same goes for early, chrome bumpered MGB's. On the other hand I unfortunately drove two Rover 25's; one with a 1.4 petrol and the other a diesel of some sort. Both were garbage to the point where I'm surprised I didn't throw up whilst driving either of them.

Also many dislike bigoted fools who love a car solely because of the manufacturer and/or country of origin. I'm on about those who won't accept that a car is utter, utter, utter crap because of the company that made it.

[anonymous-user]

The trouble is John people like yourself whilst having some interesting info will always promote any Rover as a better car than any other equivalent. The 600 turbo is a great car as is the tomcat but bog stock 200/400's are just run of the mill crap. Personally I don't care for The Focus but its a decent enough drove and better in most ways than the listed shed. The BRM is nothing special. The K series installation in that paticular car was a typical half assed attempt. Most of us who have tuned K series engines aspire to greater numbers than 140HP, Rover didn't have the balls to launch it with the right amount of power for it's price tag, not that they could have built them reliably anyway at the time. Set of TB's, blank the VVC and run a ported head with 1444's and forged pistons, 190HP all day long with a reasonable chassis and LSD already there it would make a decent hot hatch. You'd still have to get rid of the orange gob though despite what it symbolises.

Not everyone hates Rover but there are lots of us who have owned them and been let down. I know the K series is a gem but some of the cars they used them in and how they put pretty much everything together was unquestionably a bit dodgy.

[300bhp/ton]

MGJohn said:

anything fast said:

I quite like the BRM one, and the loud trim..

Careful there. You are wise to get your coat. This is PH. The home of infestations of Rover hater hatters... mad as in fact ...

I 'came out' with liking them early on in my PH 'career' and life has been a hellish misery ever since.... Good job my shoulders are broad. My aspiration.... One day, I'll own a Focus and become a valued part of the PH community...

[Mr2Mike]

yonex said:

Set of TB's, blank the VVC and run a ported head with 1444's and forged pistons, 190HP all day long with a reasonable chassis and LSD already there it would make a decent hot hatch.

Yeah, that just the sort of thing that high volume car manufacturers do all the time. Don't worry about emissions, noise, fuel economy or driveability.

As for reliability take a look at the VHPD K series, not exactly the paragon of reliability was it?

[anonymous-user]

Mr2Mike said:

Yeah, that just the sort of thing that high volume car manufacturers do all the time. Don't worry about emissions, noise, fuel economy or driveability.

As for reliability take a look at the VHPD K series, not exactly the paragon of reliability was it?

I have a 230HP 1800K that is much more driveable, quieter and passes every MOT emmission test. It also returns ok mpg depending how you use it?

The VHPD wasn't the best due to a number of things. They used Rover TB's, like the ones you say 'high volume car manufacturers' dont, off of the KV6 by the way, which are hobbled by goose neck inlet tracts. They also have butterfly plates which ruin throttle response but these are easily removeable. Better to use Jenveys really. The mapping is alo generally crap and the only real issue with noise is becuase they dont have a decent airbox or exhaust.

My engine started out as a VHPD and when you rip them apart you would be surprised just how common parts are. Once you set the liner heights and sort the breathing out the power comes easily. Most owners will have an Emerald or similar and fit adjustable pulleys, it makes an enormous difference to the car if it has stock cams which aren't very good either by the way.

As a base unit for motorsport they are brilliant.

[MGJohn]

To all the PH naysayers, my bigoted view is faster than your bigoted view and uses less fuel too.

So there.....

Love kicking over PH Anthills and watching what emerges ...

One eye on this and one eye on Q1 and another eye on F1 driver tracker... Three eyes ..

That Vettel is again useless. And that other German, Herr Schumacher really should ... seconds thoughts; no he shouldn't, carry on MSC it adds interest for this observer and aggravates many here which is a bonus... .
.

[tomoleeds]

look lets get this straight rovers where sheds when they were 5 years old, now one like this weeks riggers special,is very dated, old fashioned,damaged and very uncool, i know of cars better than this given in to the scrappage scheme, for £700 you can get a decent focus that is a far better buy,and yes i have owned rovers and focus in the past, i know riggers is showing a different car every week for under a grand but this time its scrap

[dbdb]

tomoleeds said:

look lets get this straight rovers where sheds when they were 5 years old, now one like this weeks riggers special,is very dated, old fashioned,damaged and very uncool, i know of cars better than this given in to the scrappage scheme, for £700 you can get a decent focus that is a far better buy,and yes i have owned rovers and focus in the past, i know riggers is showing a different car every week for under a grand but this time its scrap

SOTW isn't just about cheap reliability though. This isn't Money Saving Expert, it is Piston Heads so the car needs to have something interesting about it – rather than simple bland efficiency in resale grey.

A bog standard Focus is a decent car, but only the fast versions could be described as interesting. Had this Rover been the turbo then it would have qualified, but it wasn't and it didn't which is why a desperate act of conjuring was needed and the BRM was found. The BRM is a worthy of SOTW since it is interesting – being flawed makes it better since there is something to talk about.

That I wouldn’t choose to own either of these Rovers isn’t the point. To put £700 into a game of Roulette with an elderly Jag is more my bag, but equally I recognise that Rover did make some decent cars in this era, many of which were well regarded at the time. The ‘all Rovers are rubbish’ reputation was applied retrospectively in the Top Gear era.

[Strawman]

dbdb said:

The ‘all Rovers are rubbish’ reputation was applied retrospectively in the Top Gear era.

I don't like this SOTW, but not because I think "All Rovers are rubbish". The P6 was an innovative car IMO, for example. I think the Rover fanboys have slanted this discussion towards "anyone who criticises this car must be biased" whereas in reality anyone who bought this car for more than £100 would need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

[uncinquesei]

dbdb said:

tomoleeds said:

look lets get this straight rovers where sheds when they were 5 years old, now one like this weeks riggers special,is very dated, old fashioned,damaged and very uncool, i know of cars better than this given in to the scrappage scheme, for £700 you can get a decent focus that is a far better buy,and yes i have owned rovers and focus in the past, i know riggers is showing a different car every week for under a grand but this time its scrap

SOTW isn't just about cheap reliability though. This isn't Money Saving Expert, it is Piston Heads so the car needs to have something interesting about it – rather than simple bland efficiency in resale grey.

A bog standard Focus is a decent car, but only the fast versions could be described as interesting. Had this Rover been the turbo then it would have qualified, but it wasn't and it didn't which is why a desperate act of conjuring was needed and the BRM was found. The BRM is a worthy of SOTW since it is interesting – being flawed makes it better since there is something to talk about.

That I wouldn’t choose to own either of these Rovers isn’t the point. To put £700 into a game of Roulette with an elderly Jag is more my bag, but equally I recognise that Rover did make some decent cars in this era, many of which were well regarded at the time. The ‘all Rovers are rubbish’ reputation was applied retrospectively in the Top Gear era.

well said. Lots of people missing the point (incoherently as well). Perversely, the usual PH logic has been reversed. Normally, someone suggests they might buy an ordinary new car and gets inundated with suggestions of M5s etc, but for SOTW, interesting (errors excepted) car gets compared unfavourably with more modern ubiquitous hatchback... Predictably unpredictable.

[tomoleeds]

Strawman said:

exactly on ebay near me a 1998 "s" reg rover full mot excellent nick £395, there are another 25 rovers 214 and the like for under £500,if you want a rover buy a nice one ,the shed on here is worth £100,

I don't like this SOTW, but not because I think "All Rovers are rubbish". The P6 was an innovative car IMO, for example. I think the Rover fanboys have slanted this discussion towards "anyone who criticises this car must be biased" whereas in reality anyone who bought this car for more than £100 would need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

[anything fast]

300bhp/ton said:

MGJohn said:

anything fast said:

I quite like the BRM one, and the loud trim..

Careful there. You are wise to get your coat. This is PH. The home of infestations of Rover hater hatters... mad as in fact ...

I 'came out' with liking them early on in my PH 'career' and life has been a hellish misery ever since.... Good job my shoulders are broad. My aspiration.... One day, I'll own a Focus and become a valued part of the PH community...

what I meant by I quite like it was that I need somewhere to plant some flowers!

ha ha ha

No seriously I am not a Rover hater, just a terrible car hater, some Rovers are utter garbage but the little 200 hatch was a fun little car and the BRM one has plenty of character, which to me is important.

[barnes89]

Having owned a loved driving daily a 216 coupe for the last 4 years i can say it has been very reliable and hasn't broken down once since i've had it. As long as you top the water level up every few weeks then it isn't going to go bang as so many people seem to believe.

[MGJohn]

barnes89 said:

Having owned a loved driving daily a 216 coupe for the last 4 years i can say it has been very reliable and hasn't broken down once since i've had it. As long as you top the water level up every few weeks then it isn't going to go bang as so many people seem to believe.

Honda or Rover engine?

In a healthy engine's cooling system it should not be necessary to top it up. Few of my cars ever needed that except when something allows coolant to escape. Over the years, prime cause for that has been a wearing water pump. If undetected by the less observant car user, that can lead to over heating and that's bad news for any engine particularly the uber-light K-Series in some Rovers.

I was amazed when my son told me the other day that in the two years he's had his Lotus Elise S2, which he often uses for work travel, it's coolant level has not moved during that time. It has a 1.8 Rover K-Series behind the driver...

EDIT to add @ 16:55

My son is taking his 188,000 mile Rover 620ti to a drag strip to day. He will take it down that 1/4 mile strip and hopes to record a good time. Now that demonstrates confidence in his high mileage workhorse daily driver. I believe he's asking a lot of the old car...

EDIT again @ 17:12

My son has just got back. I asked how his car shaped up. The event was rained off. Now there's a turn up.

Edited by MGJohn on Saturday 7th July 17:12

[SomeMinorTrouble]

Dad had one of these for a few years,tuned to 220Bhp. one of my favourite cars.
NO ONE expected how quick it was! but the leather used to burn me on sunny days...

[MGJohn]

SomeMinorTrouble said:

Dad had one of these for a few years,tuned to 220Bhp. one of my favourite cars.
NO ONE expected how quick it was! but the leather used to burn me on sunny days...

Ah... sunny days... a fading memory now...

[300bhp/ton]

Mr2Mike said:

As for reliability take a look at the VHPD K series, not exactly the paragon of reliability was it?

In fairness though the VHPD was not a Rover built or specified engine. It was completely 3rd party with no Rover Cars involvement.

[barnes89]

MGJohn said:

barnes89 said:

Having owned a loved driving daily a 216 coupe for the last 4 years i can say it has been very reliable and hasn't broken down once since i've had it. As long as you top the water level up every few weeks then it isn't going to go bang as so many people seem to believe.

Honda or Rover engine?

In a healthy engine's cooling system it should not be necessary to top it up. Few of my cars ever needed that except when something allows coolant to escape. Over the years, prime cause for that has been a wearing water pump. If undetected by the less observant car user, that can lead to over heating and that's bad news for any engine particularly the uber-light K-Series in some Rovers.

I was amazed when my son told me the other day that in the two years he's had his Lotus Elise S2, which he often uses for work travel, it's coolant level has not moved during that time. It has a 1.8 Rover K-Series behind the driver...

EDIT to add @ 16:55

My son is taking his 188,000 mile Rover 620ti to a drag strip to day. He will take it down that 1/4 mile strip and hopes to record a good time. Now that demonstrates confidence in his high mileage workhorse daily driver. I believe he's asking a lot of the old car...

EDIT again @ 17:12

My son has just got back. I asked how his car shaped up. The event was rained off. Now there's a turn up.

Rover K-series engine

Replaced the water pump about 3 years ago and the radiator with a brand new one about a year ago. Only like a litre of water a time when topping up. can't find any leaks so i really don't know why it goes down this small amount every 3 weeks. Think unfortunately top gear has ruined the reputation beyond repair but guess people should try for themselves before judging/ listening to clarkson's views.

Edited by MGJohn on Saturday 7th July 17:12

[MGJohn]

barnes89 said:

.
Replaced the water pump about 3 years ago and the radiator with a brand new one about a year ago. Only like a litre of water a time when topping up. can't find any leaks so i really don't know why it goes down this small amount every 3 weeks. Think unfortunately top gear has ruined the reputation beyond repair but guess people should try for themselves before judging/ listening to clarkson's views.
.

Best judge of these things is of course the individual rather than cluelessly regurgitating the same old stuff that someone 'dahn the pub' or Clarkson said.

More by luck than judgement, Clarkson is now hugely cushioned against the realities most of us have to face so his judgement is both tarnished and prejudiced. He can rest assured that he played some part in the demise of our indigenous Motor Industry which it and all the suppliers they relied on, provided much employment for school leavers with their foot on the bottom of the employment/career ladder as well as for more qualified and experienced. Those many opportunities are now long gone. It is not bad luck or mere coincidence that more than a million under 25s are without employment. It is no longer there.

That's how my old minces see these things. Could be wrong of course ... yeah ... that's it.

Still why should I give a toss, I'm alright Jack !
..