RE: Audi unveils its new S3
Discussion
I don't really understand how so many people can call it dull just from seeing pictures of it and reading some (actually quite impressive) performance and econmomy figures?
Fair enough that people don't like the look but how different did you really think it would be to the previous S3? Audi sell a lot of them so why would they alter the styling drastically?
What would consitute "not dull"?
Fair enough that people don't like the look but how different did you really think it would be to the previous S3? Audi sell a lot of them so why would they alter the styling drastically?
What would consitute "not dull"?
YorkshireAndy said:
Some interesting opinions from people who probably haven't actually driven a recent S3, never mind the new one. AWD car, 300bhp, great interior, whats not to like (ok maybe price). As an owner of a black 8p S3 sportback I feel qualified to say that it is a great car. The interior is excellent, loads of toys, comfortable, can chew up big miles easily, or if you prefer be hooned around in on maximum attack. I have added some extra horses to mine giving it about the same (305bhp) as the new model. It is a hooligan of a car with that much power and has awd so it can actually use the power.
I did look at focus rs as an alternative which by comparison was cheap inside and looked like it had driven through halfords and picked up several addenda en route. You can blend in driving an s3 as it does look like every other a3 out there. That is fine by me, I like my sleeper.
amen brother, love mine to pieces, Clearly there're people on here bashing Audi because it's the latest fashion, I'm not sure what exactly the comments mean by "boring", just because it's not a drift machine doesn't make it boring lolI did look at focus rs as an alternative which by comparison was cheap inside and looked like it had driven through halfords and picked up several addenda en route. You can blend in driving an s3 as it does look like every other a3 out there. That is fine by me, I like my sleeper.
But saying that when/if I change mine I will have to try the AWD M135i and see if that also is sooo boring hahahaha
Edited by Blanchie on Monday 24th September 14:25
I really like the new A3 and S3. I have never understood the Audi hatred on forums - sure, they mightn't be as involving to drive on track as an Elise (or MX5, or E46 M3 or any of the other stuff most pistonheads rave about but that an Audi owner wouldn't want in a million years), but in every other real world respect they're brilliant - nice styling, fantastic interiors, badge prestige, performance, reliability, build quality, running costs, the list goes on.
To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
TTGuy said:
I really like the new A3 and S3. I have never understood the Audi hatred on forums - sure, they mightn't be as involving to drive on track as an Elise (or MX5, or E46 M3 or any of the other stuff most pistonheads rave about but that an Audi owner wouldn't want in a million years), but in every other real world respect they're brilliant - nice styling, fantastic interiors, badge prestige, performance, reliability, build quality, running costs, the list goes on.
To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
I'm not against Audis, they make thoroughly decent cars that have the best quality mass produced interiors in the world. To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
And I'm not bothered whether the new S3 is involving to drive on a track or not because I, like most people on PH, are not trying to portray themselves as part-time BTCC test drivers, but actually spend all their driving time on public roads.
Neither am I bothered whether some people consider it cool or not.
And I'm not a diehard petrolhead either who likes to go drifting in RWD cars, I'm just interested in cars and like to comment on them. And my comment on the A3 (in any guise) is the following - from the trailing edge of the front wing, going backward to the rear of the car - it just looks dated, mumsy and boring.
Sorry, but end of.
TTGuy said:
I really like the new A3 and S3. I have never understood the Audi hatred on forums - sure, they mightn't be as involving to drive on track as an Elise (or MX5, or E46 M3 or any of the other stuff most pistonheads rave about but that an Audi owner wouldn't want in a million years), but in every other real world respect they're brilliant - nice styling, fantastic interiors, badge prestige, performance, reliability, build quality, running costs, the list goes on.
To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
Interesting... Why is the RWD car inferior? I ask this as a Quattro owner! So many Audi owners fall back on Quattro as though it's insane and inconceivable why you wouldn't buy 4WD... You still spin of the road. 4WD cars CRASH TOO!!!To sacrifice all of that to drive an inferior car just because it is RWD and has steering feel is, as most of the non-petrolhead public have decided given the volume of Audis on our roads, ridiculous. I agree that Audis are kind of like the iPad of cars at present with a cool image outside of the petrolhead community. Is some sort of age or personality thing at play here, whereby die-hard petrolheads who have no interest in what's deemed to be cool at any given time therefore hate anything that falls into this category - iPhones, Audis, Superdry etc etc? There's a phD thesis in the pistonheads' hatred of Audis for someone!
And don't forget even Audi owners don't always buy Quattros so have they bought inferior cars too?
Why are other cars inferior to Audi? I don't see it that way... Other brands are just another way to go.
jdw1234 said:
The problem I have with Audi is the naff 90s estate agent image.
Didn't think Audi's were all that popular in the UK in the 90's, and were still a bit of an alternative, yet informed choice over your usual Merc or BMW.Naff 90's estate agent image is much more associated with a 3-series of that era (and still is) over any Audi.
Another thing of note is that old Audi's are much less likely to have been horrendously and disrespectfully chavved up by the "innit" crowd versus the equivalent Merc or BMW. Surely that says more about their perceived image amongst the great unwashed than what Clarkson and all his disciples say?
Blanchie said:
YorkshireAndy said:
Some interesting opinions from people who probably haven't actually driven a recent S3, never mind the new one. AWD car, 300bhp, great interior, whats not to like (ok maybe price). As an owner of a black 8p S3 sportback I feel qualified to say that it is a great car. The interior is excellent, loads of toys, comfortable, can chew up big miles easily, or if you prefer be hooned around in on maximum attack. I have added some extra horses to mine giving it about the same (305bhp) as the new model. It is a hooligan of a car with that much power and has awd so it can actually use the power.
I did look at focus rs as an alternative which by comparison was cheap inside and looked like it had driven through halfords and picked up several addenda en route. You can blend in driving an s3 as it does look like every other a3 out there. That is fine by me, I like my sleeper.
amen brother, love mine to pieces, Clearly there're people on here bashing Audi because it's the latest fashion, I'm not sure what exactly the comments mean by "boring", just because it's not a drift machine doesn't make it boring lolI did look at focus rs as an alternative which by comparison was cheap inside and looked like it had driven through halfords and picked up several addenda en route. You can blend in driving an s3 as it does look like every other a3 out there. That is fine by me, I like my sleeper.
But saying that when/if I change mine I will have to try the AWD M135i and see if that also is sooo boring hahahaha
Edited by Blanchie on Monday 24th September 14:25
Secondly, you're not the only person to have owned one.
I bought mine brand spankers back in 2007 when they weren't ten-a-penny on the roads and, as I said earlier, pumped it up to 310bhp. It was still a car which lacked dynamic prowess and would revert to tyre scrubbing understeer when pushed hard. The haldex was slow to engage and would not offer any modulation through a fast corner. There's also a TTS owner on here giving some candid feedback as well but you guys won't hear it, oh no, we're just Audi bashing because it's 'fashionable', nothing to do with having owned the bloody things.
I've since gone on to own a number of Porsches and currently run around in a 130i that my Mrs used to use, now I find driving this latter car insightful as it takes me back to my hot hatch ownership days but the eye opener was just how much more fun the BMW is. You can flick the rear out and use the throttle to push it through a corner in a way that I have NEVER experienced in an Audi. Unless they really have dialled back the understeer hugely and sorted out the questionable ride then I'm confident this car will be more of the same.
I used to rave about Audis when I was in my twenties and was pretty proud to have a brand new S3 at a young age, but seriously, with age and experience comes wisdom and you will, I hope, one day realise that these cars ARE rather dull from behind the wheel. You don't have to be driving like a loony to appreciated a sorted drivers car, I do a three mile commute through the city and get loads of pleasure from a little squirt of the throttle on a slippery roundabout with a dap of oppo', try that in the S3 and all you get is an inert wash-out towards the kerb. I havn't felt the need to add horses to the little 130i as it does what a hot hatch should; delivers smiles. The S3 was just frustrating, I didn't understand why at the time but I do now!!
Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 24th September 23:18
DoubleSix said:
Firstly you disqualify your own credibility by referring to the 8P as a 'sleeper', lmao you have no clue!
Secondly, you're not the only person to have owned one.
I bought mine brand spankers back in 2007 when they weren't ten-a-penny on the roads and, as I said earlier, pumped it up to 310bhp. It was still a car which lacked dynamic prowess and would revert to tyre scrubbing understeer when pushed hard. The haldex was slow to engage and would not offer any modulation through a fast corner. There's also a TTS owner on here giving some candid feedback as well but you guys won't hear it, oh no, we're just Audi bashing because it's 'fashionable', nothing to do with having owned the bloody things.
I've since gone on to own a number of Porsches and currently run around in a 130i that my Mrs used to use, now I find driving this latter car insightful as it takes me back to my hot hatch ownership days but the eye opener was just how much more fun the BMW is. You can flick the rear out and use the throttle to push it through a corner in a way that I have NEVER experienced in an Audi. Unless they really have dialled back the understeer hugely and sorted out the questionable ride then I'm confident this car will be more of the same.
I used to rave about Audis when I was in my twenties and was pretty proud to have a brand new S3 at a young age, but seriously, with age and experience comes wisdom and you will, I hope, one day realise that these cars ARE rather dull from behind the wheel. You don't have to driving like a loony to appreciated a sorted drivers car, I do a three mile commute through the city and get loads of pleasure from a little squirt of the throttle on a slippery roundabout with a dap of oppo', try that in the S3 and all you get is an inert wash-out towards the kerb. I havn't felt the need to add horses to the little 130i as it does what a hot hatch should; delivers smiles. The S3 was just frustrating, I didn't understand why at the time but I do now!!
Oooh, you've mentioned RWD and getting the back to step out a tad. You'll be flamed you hooligan lol... I jest.Secondly, you're not the only person to have owned one.
I bought mine brand spankers back in 2007 when they weren't ten-a-penny on the roads and, as I said earlier, pumped it up to 310bhp. It was still a car which lacked dynamic prowess and would revert to tyre scrubbing understeer when pushed hard. The haldex was slow to engage and would not offer any modulation through a fast corner. There's also a TTS owner on here giving some candid feedback as well but you guys won't hear it, oh no, we're just Audi bashing because it's 'fashionable', nothing to do with having owned the bloody things.
I've since gone on to own a number of Porsches and currently run around in a 130i that my Mrs used to use, now I find driving this latter car insightful as it takes me back to my hot hatch ownership days but the eye opener was just how much more fun the BMW is. You can flick the rear out and use the throttle to push it through a corner in a way that I have NEVER experienced in an Audi. Unless they really have dialled back the understeer hugely and sorted out the questionable ride then I'm confident this car will be more of the same.
I used to rave about Audis when I was in my twenties and was pretty proud to have a brand new S3 at a young age, but seriously, with age and experience comes wisdom and you will, I hope, one day realise that these cars ARE rather dull from behind the wheel. You don't have to driving like a loony to appreciated a sorted drivers car, I do a three mile commute through the city and get loads of pleasure from a little squirt of the throttle on a slippery roundabout with a dap of oppo', try that in the S3 and all you get is an inert wash-out towards the kerb. I havn't felt the need to add horses to the little 130i as it does what a hot hatch should; delivers smiles. The S3 was just frustrating, I didn't understand why at the time but I do now!!
Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 24th September 22:36
I'm the TTS owner... Basically everyone backs there brand to the hilt and what the buying criteria is for an Audi driver isn't the same for the BMW driver (yes generalising) and one will say the other is wrong. There isn't any wrong as such, whatever you've bought, if you're still happy and grinning like an idiot a month after getting your butt behind the wheel, then you've bought the right car for your needs/pocket.
Of course Audi's have a lot going for them, they wouldn't sell like they do if they weren't doing something right. They're not rubbish, has a means of getting for here to there they are a fine vehicle. If you happen to be taking and interesting road, a drivers road, then most Audi's won't reward the enthusiast... And that does not mean driving at 10/10ths. My TTS is plenty fast enough, but on a interesting road where you may not get up to much more than 50mph it doesn't involve, reward or really assist when trying to enjoy the road. I'd get their quickly, but with only a tad of fun.
Most Audi drivers won't hear of it but most Audi's aren't much fun to drive or presume that the driver looking for more, the enthusiast, must be driving at silly speeds. What this miss is that no enthusiast here has said an Audi is too slow!!!!
HighwayStar said:
Oooh, you've mentioned RWD and getting the back to step out a tad. You'll be flamed you hooligan lol... I jest.
I'm the TTS owner... Basically everyone backs there brand to the hilt and what the buying criteria is for an Audi driver isn't the same for the BMW driver (yes generalising) and one will say the other is wrong. There isn't any wrong as such, whatever you've bought, if you're still happy and grinning like an idiot a month after getting your butt behind the wheel, then you've bought the right car for your needs/pocket.
Of course Audi's have a lot going for them, they wouldn't sell like they do if they weren't doing something right. They're not rubbish, has a means of getting for here to there they are a fine vehicle. If you happen to be taking and interesting road, a drivers road, then most Audi's won't reward the enthusiast... And that does not mean driving at 10/10ths. My TTS is plenty fast enough, but on a interesting road where you may not get up to much more than 50mph it doesn't involve, reward or really assist when trying to enjoy the road. I'd get their quickly, but with only a tad of fun.
Most Audi drivers won't hear of it but most Audi's aren't much fun to drive or presume that the driver looking for more, the enthusiast, must be driving at silly speeds. What this miss is that no enthusiast here has said an Audi is too slow!!!!
I don't disagree with anything you've said there HighwayStar, but some of these posters are annoying in that they assume other peoples comments are based on some silly forum stance rather than actual ownership and experience. Hell I've got more reason to be biased towards Audi than not; my family have worked for the company for nearly 10 years! But no, I can objectively appreciate their good and bad points. I'm the TTS owner... Basically everyone backs there brand to the hilt and what the buying criteria is for an Audi driver isn't the same for the BMW driver (yes generalising) and one will say the other is wrong. There isn't any wrong as such, whatever you've bought, if you're still happy and grinning like an idiot a month after getting your butt behind the wheel, then you've bought the right car for your needs/pocket.
Of course Audi's have a lot going for them, they wouldn't sell like they do if they weren't doing something right. They're not rubbish, has a means of getting for here to there they are a fine vehicle. If you happen to be taking and interesting road, a drivers road, then most Audi's won't reward the enthusiast... And that does not mean driving at 10/10ths. My TTS is plenty fast enough, but on a interesting road where you may not get up to much more than 50mph it doesn't involve, reward or really assist when trying to enjoy the road. I'd get their quickly, but with only a tad of fun.
Most Audi drivers won't hear of it but most Audi's aren't much fun to drive or presume that the driver looking for more, the enthusiast, must be driving at silly speeds. What this miss is that no enthusiast here has said an Audi is too slow!!!!
Alucidnation said:
Yes, of course, they are s
t at getting the rear end out, but why would you want to in a 4WD????
I mean, what did you really think the system was designed for?
So many people completely mis the point.
That's not all he said. A 4WD shouldn't just oversteer when things get a little interesting either. Audi persist in hanging the engineer too far forward of the front axial. Yep... so many people mis the point t at getting the rear end out, but why would you want to in a 4WD????I mean, what did you really think the system was designed for?
So many people completely mis the point.
HighwayStar said:
That's not all he said. A 4WD shouldn't just oversteer when things get a little interesting either. Audi persist in hanging the engineer too far forward of the front axial. Yep... so many people mis the point
Exactly, at least someones paying attention.. When the front wheels start their inevitable scrub off and break loose you'd hope Haldex would be quick enough to move power to the rear and give you the chance to power round. This doesn't happen... just a nose heavy dive to the outside of the corner.
edo said:
Lets be really clear - PH forum writers (keyboard warriors) are not the majority.
Lots of people drive in the real world and want a well built, quick, safe quality car that doesnt attract attention to its self.
They don't want a bespoilered chav-mobile with huge wheels and a baby swallowing exhaust. They want a well built car, with a quality interior, 20,000 mile service intervals, 4wd and enough poke to get them down a slip road, or past a caravan on a b road.
You're missing the point. How many wings and spoilers the Impreza has is irrelevant. The point is that it is every bit as well built as the S3. The only significant difference is the quality of the interior trim. But that is not enough to justify the difference in price. And for what it's worth I didn't think the Impreza was that fantastic either and I don't own one so I don't have an agenda.Lots of people drive in the real world and want a well built, quick, safe quality car that doesnt attract attention to its self.
They don't want a bespoilered chav-mobile with huge wheels and a baby swallowing exhaust. They want a well built car, with a quality interior, 20,000 mile service intervals, 4wd and enough poke to get them down a slip road, or past a caravan on a b road.
You don't have to be a genius to work out why people buy Audis. Most buyers will see one in a car park or have to choose from a list of company cars and simply think, yeah, that looks nice I'll have one of those. Anyone who spends any time researching cars knows Audi's failings and isn't seduced by the window dressing, or if they are, they only make the mistake once.
This car is overpriced and no one has yet been able to argue otherwise.
And before someone else asks, yes, I have driven a lot of Audis. I get invited to a good number or corporate track days so I get to drive a lot of cars.
SonicHedgeHog said:
You're missing the point. How many wings and spoilers the Impreza has is irrelevant. The point is that it is every bit as well built as the S3. The only significant difference is the quality of the interior trim. But that is not enough to justify the difference in price. And for what it's worth I didn't think the Impreza was that fantastic either and I don't own one so I don't have an agenda.
You don't have to be a genius to work out why people buy Audis. Most buyers will see one in a car park or have to choose from a list of company cars and simply think, yeah, that looks nice I'll have one of those. Anyone who spends any time researching cars knows Audi's failings and isn't seduced by the window dressing, or if they are, they only make the mistake once.
This car is overpriced and no one has yet been able to argue otherwise.
And before someone else asks, yes, I have driven a lot of Audis. I get invited to a good number or corporate track days so I get to drive a lot of cars.
I've argued that the faults of the car are numerous but arguing the car is overpriced is a bit silly. You don't have to be a genius to work out why people buy Audis. Most buyers will see one in a car park or have to choose from a list of company cars and simply think, yeah, that looks nice I'll have one of those. Anyone who spends any time researching cars knows Audi's failings and isn't seduced by the window dressing, or if they are, they only make the mistake once.
This car is overpriced and no one has yet been able to argue otherwise.
And before someone else asks, yes, I have driven a lot of Audis. I get invited to a good number or corporate track days so I get to drive a lot of cars.
Price is subjective and value us determined by market forces, the fact that Audi do the volumes they do would suggest they are not overpriced!! If Audi were struggling to move them then that would be a different matter.
Ultimately one mans expensive is another mans cheap.
DoubleSix said:
I've argued that the faults of the car are numerous but arguing the car is overpriced is a bit silly.
Price is subjective and value us determined by market forces, the fact that Audi do the volumes they do would suggest they are not overpriced!! If Audi were struggling to move them then that would be a different matter.
Ultimately one mans expensive is another mans cheap.
I disagree with that. Just because people are prepared to buy them does not make them fairly priced. Many car buyers are clueless or have no choice (company cars). Everyone on this website knows there is not £40k+ worth of design and engineering in this car. If Subaru can do it for under £30k that is blindingly obvious. What this car is is a £30k car with a £10k badge on the front. That makes it overpriced.Price is subjective and value us determined by market forces, the fact that Audi do the volumes they do would suggest they are not overpriced!! If Audi were struggling to move them then that would be a different matter.
Ultimately one mans expensive is another mans cheap.
DoubleSix said:
Firstly you disqualify your own credibility by referring to the 8P as a 'sleeper', lmao you have no clue!
How so? Several others have asserted in this thread that the S3 looks like an A3 TDI. In black to the untrained eye surely a car which looks very similar to a standard shopping trolley but has over 300bhp is the very definition of a sleeper? By comparison even to the untrained eye a Focus RS could never be mistaken for a Titanium spec diesel? I suppose a full de-badging would be the final step, which in fairness I haven't taken, even still I fail to see how this 'disqualifies my credibility'?DoubleSix said:
I bought mine brand spankers back in 2007 when they weren't ten-a-penny on the roads and, as I said earlier, pumped it up to 310bhp. It was still a car which lacked dynamic prowess and would revert to tyre scrubbing understeer when pushed hard. The haldex was slow to engage and would not offer any modulation through a fast corner. There's also a TTS owner on here giving some candid feedback as well but you guys won't hear it, oh no, we're just Audi bashing because it's 'fashionable', nothing to do with having owned the bloody things.
I would say that there have been a few trolls in this thread - you are not one of them, rather someone who clearly does have relevant experience of the car in question.As I said in my original post I find that as a daily drive it is a great car. Loads of gadgets, very comfortable, great interior. If I had to nitpick I would say the satnav is not the most intuitive thing in the world. Then on top of being a great daily car, when the road does open up in front of you, time for some fun. You are right the car does understeer when pushed hard. You really need to be giving it some serious welly to be in that situation. Equally I have found that under extreme conditions trail brake oversteer is possible especially in the wet braking deep into a roundabout.
DoubleSix said:
I used to rave about Audis when I was in my twenties and was pretty proud to have a brand new S3 at a young age, but seriously, with age and experience comes wisdom and you will, I hope, one day realise that these cars ARE rather dull from behind the wheel.
Not in my 20s anymore - wish I was! I don't view the S3 as a track toy, weekend car or similar. In comparison to say an Ariel Atom or even probably an R26.R Megane (neither of which I have driven) I would imagine that this is 'rather DULL' as you have said. The appeal for me is that it is a daily drive with 5 doors, lots of toys and, when the time is right a lot of fun. It is driven as a TDI 80% of the time, and the other 20% I have some fun. I will at some point buy a weekend car to go with the S3. The weekend car will be massively impractical, and no doubt anything but dull. Until that time I will have to suffer the 'rather DULL' 300bhp on a daily basis...Isn't it traditional at this point for someone to suggest an MX5?
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