A Case Study in Being a Bellend
Discussion
buymeabar said:
It surely must cause some wear? Jag with handbrake on squats down a little and strains to move forward and the Merc engine sounds even rougher until I knock it in P.
The torque converter is a fluid coupling, not a mechanical linkage. The power going through the coupling at idle is negligible, so is the amount heat is being generated, so it won't wear anything. The engine is doing some work pushing the fluids around so it will burn a tiny bit more fuel.fido said:
The torque converter is a fluid coupling, not a mechanical linkage. The power going through the coupling at idle is negligible, so is the amount heat is being generated, so it won't wear anything. The engine is doing some work pushing the fluids around so it will burn a tiny bit more fuel.
Makes sense - little bit of heat and more burnt fuel for the Jag. So what about the DCT box in other cars, that is a mechanical linkage and surely the clutch packs have to slip just a little?buymeabar said:
Maybe going a little OT here but does anyone know the definitive answer as to whether having the handbrake on and car in drive causes wear on the gearbox?
My last three cars have been autos and everytime I have made a point of asking the sales and service guys if leaving in P with either the handbrake on or auto hold is bad - and everytime they've skirted round the question and simply referenced 'the handbook says to leave in D and apply handbrake/auto hold' with no time limit specified
It surely must cause some wear? Jag with handbrake on squats down a little and strains to move forward and the Merc engine sounds even rougher until I knock it in P.
No wear is taking place.My last three cars have been autos and everytime I have made a point of asking the sales and service guys if leaving in P with either the handbrake on or auto hold is bad - and everytime they've skirted round the question and simply referenced 'the handbook says to leave in D and apply handbrake/auto hold' with no time limit specified
It surely must cause some wear? Jag with handbrake on squats down a little and strains to move forward and the Merc engine sounds even rougher until I knock it in P.
If it's a torque converter auto there is no metal-to-metal contact in that scenario - the drive is transmitted by the gearbox fluid moving around.
I believe that DCT type boxes automatically slip into neutral after a period of being stationary even if the selector remains in D (and they simply re-engage when you go to move off).
Leave it in D and put the handbrake on.
buymeabar said:
DJP said:
I believe that DCT type boxes automatically slip into neutral after a period of being stationary even if the selector remains in D (and they simply re-engage when you go to move off).
interesting (and reassuring). ThanksThose vehicles using dry clutches have a different method for dealing with it as outlined by DJP. Personally, if it were my money, I wouldn't touch a dry clutch DCT box with a barge pole, personal bias declared, but there will be plenty who have had no issues, but a significant number who have.
Regarding leaving a car in D at least for some integrations of the ZF 8HP it will move into a "transparent neutral" when stationary and at idle. So the selector shows D, but in reality is in neutral.
Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
Mr2Mike said:
The secret to finding neutral on bikes with "difficult" gearboxes is to select it before you stop (assuming you can anticipate the stop)
I'm surprised by the Suzuki being difficult though, they are hardly known for crap boxes, perhaps a bit of clutch adjustment required?
Yeah, makes sense, I always like to be in a gear when slowing down, but I don't think it would do any harm to get in the routine of shifting into neutral at the last moment. I'm surprised by the Suzuki being difficult though, they are hardly known for crap boxes, perhaps a bit of clutch adjustment required?
I think it could be the clutch cable on the GSXR but not the old Honda which I think is just an old/agricultural box. I also adjusted the position of the pegs on the GSXR so perhaps the shift rod needs further adjustment? To be honest I've never worried about it. I don't really do much start/stop riding on the GSXR so it's seldom an issue... I suppose I should investigate further though. The bike is basically new so it must be something simple.
Ninja59 said:
Regarding leaving a car in D at least for some integrations of the ZF 8HP it will move into a "transparent neutral" when stationary and at idle. So the selector shows D, but in reality is in neutral.
Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
For VAG group cars it feels like it's holding the footbrake (certainly no squatting at the back of the car), for Merc also. Not sure on BM but I did read that the brake lights also stay on there also. Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
Ninja59 said:
Regarding leaving a car in D at least for some integrations of the ZF 8HP it will move into a "transparent neutral" when stationary and at idle. So the selector shows D, but in reality is in neutral.
Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
Auto hold is the footbrake with brake lights lit up. In other words, you can take your foot off the footbrake and the car (auto) won't creep.Reading around surely some of the brake light "problem" is related more to the handbrake/auto hold situation and scenario and not so much the gearbox. Now I do not know exactly know how some of these systems "work", but does auto hold only work on the parking brake, or in effect is it simply holding the footbrake at all times. Because, the latter has C&U implications where stop lights must be lit.
When parking brake is engaged, the brake lights are off. This can be done in D to take the car out of auto-hold mode.
Once the car is stopped, the gearbox feels like it is engaging neutral so the footbrake and parking brake never feel like they are fighting against drive.
This is on my white Audi with personalised number plate and dry clutch DCT box.
OPDoubleD said:
Did you used to be a bellend being as you own a BMW? I bet you dont use indicators very much either do you.
I don't own a BMW. I own three of the bloody things (real BMWs, not the utter crap they make now), and had two more before them. So, that may make me a quintuple-bellend-bingo offender - but I do make a point of using my indicators correctly......but my point is, Audi drivers' reputation is well-deserved. Most drivers on the road these days are w
kers (or should that be Wänkrs, for those in German cars?), and modern BMW drivers tend to do little to dispel that preconception, but Audi drivers are surely the most egregious offenders...buymeabar said:
Prof Prolapse said:
No way in hell I'd trust my handbrake.
Agreed. Imagine the embarrassment of creeping into the car in front if the handbrake failed. 'Sorry mate my car's just crept into yours...but good news it didn't stall once!t, but the sttiest of the lot is in my 540iT daily. Utterly useless - wouldn't trust it to hold the car on a hill, don't really need it for parking on my level street. Still apply it as a matter of routine, just to maintain discipline, but whenever I'm stopped at the lights, I snick the autobox into park (or manual into neutral, when I'm in my 520iT, which has a somewhat effective handbrake). Takes so little time and effort that it's just not worth arguing about. How they keep passing MoTs without the inspector flagging up lack of handbrake efficacy...This isn't really the place, but... styling, handling, ride quality (or lack thereof), build quality, reliability (while my 540i chunters past 220,000 miles on its original cam chain, tensioner etc, which is on the to-do list, multiple credible BMW specialists who I trust have told me they're now having to replace all that at significantly sub 100k, with even 35k on lightly-used cars reportedly being common), crap electric steering, crap turbocharged engines, crap interiors... I used to enjoy spending a couple of hours just hanging around my local BMW dealer back in the 90s and well into the 2000s to see what was around, and I was genuinely excited by what I saw. Not any more... having lived with an F11 Touring for a month, I identified so many ways in which it was demonstrably inferior to my base model E39 (didn't have either of the V8s then)... boy was I glad to get rid of that. I've decided I'm never buying a new or even 'approved used' car any more - I'm going to stick to my 'youngtimer' modern classics. My E39s and I are approaching old age, and with reasonable care, they should outlive me (and my sons have threatened dire things if they don't!). There's usually something wrong with one of them (520iT developed engine problems, was cheaper to replace than fix - 535i autobox went pop last summer, needs a rebuild - 540iT has an electrical gremlin that moves to a different part of the car every time I post on PH looking for advice on fixing it - it has yet to affect the indicators!), but heaven help me, I love the bloody things and wouldn't be without them for any other car in the world, least of all anything from the current Bavarian range.
RoverP6B said:
This isn't really the place, but... styling, handling, ride quality (or lack thereof), build quality, reliability (while my 540i chunters past 220,000 miles on its original cam chain, tensioner etc, which is on the to-do list, multiple credible BMW specialists who I trust have told me they're now having to replace all that at significantly sub 100k, with even 35k on lightly-used cars reportedly being common), crap electric steering, crap turbocharged engines, crap interiors... I used to enjoy spending a couple of hours just hanging around my local BMW dealer back in the 90s and well into the 2000s to see what was around, and I was genuinely excited by what I saw. Not any more... having lived with an F11 Touring for a month, I identified so many ways in which it was demonstrably inferior to my base model E39 (didn't have either of the V8s then)... boy was I glad to get rid of that. I've decided I'm never buying a new or even 'approved used' car any more - I'm going to stick to my 'youngtimer' modern classics. My E39s and I are approaching old age, and with reasonable care, they should outlive me (and my sons have threatened dire things if they don't!). There's usually something wrong with one of them (520iT developed engine problems, was cheaper to replace than fix - 535i autobox went pop last summer, needs a rebuild - 540iT has an electrical gremlin that moves to a different part of the car every time I post on PH looking for advice on fixing it - it has yet to affect the indicators!), but heaven help me, I love the bloody things and wouldn't be without them for any other car in the world, least of all anything from the current Bavarian range.
I know you love your E39 Estate, which is fair enough. I know those cars well and IMO they are usually a POS at that mileage.But even new they were not a patch on current BMWs IME.
As for styling, I would have thought this is highly subjective, but you know that.
nickfrog said:
I know you love your E39 Estate, which is fair enough. I know those cars well and IMO they are usually a POS at that mileage.
But even new they were not a patch on current BMWs IME.
As for styling, I would have thought this is highly subjective, but you know that.
Aesthetics may be subjective, but good design is not. I can point to ways in which modern BMW styling makes the cars more of a pain to live with (literally - that F11 gave me a constant ache in my neck, so poor was the rearward visibility). Are you by any chance the Nick from whom I bought my 540? I know he's a PHer but forgot to ask his username... anyway, that car is the highest-mileage of any type I've ever owned, but it's rattle-free, runs very well except when cold, handles fine... even the initially grumbly o/s rear wheel bearing has quietened right down with use, the drone has pretty much disappeared. The only fly in the ointment for now is the itinerant gremlin... although it hasn't thrown up any problems at all since my last post. I think it's listening. The 535i cost me £595 at 99,975 miles on collection and gave me 34 months' dirt-cheap, almost maintenance-free V8 motoring. It owes me nothing - indeed, I feel I owe it the gearbox rebuild it needs, as soon as I can... even the 520i Touring, as troublesome as it's been, is running superbly, and that straight-six is an utterly joyous thing. It's going to get a full body restoration at some point, after the 535i's gearbox job. I've looked around at new cars and just cannot see anything I'd particularly want. I'd perhaps take a Bentley Mulsanne as a substitute for the 535i, but since there's no estate version, I'll keep my Tourings... a Merc W213 E-class looks nice from all angles except the front, which is utterly gopping! Volvo V90s look OK (forgettable but inoffensive), but life is too short for 4-cylinder engines. NEVER going back there. Six is my minimum. Ditto FWD - fine in my wife's old Peugeot 205, not fine in a big load-lugging barge.But even new they were not a patch on current BMWs IME.
As for styling, I would have thought this is highly subjective, but you know that.
Back to the thread - I don't have a problem at all with the OP's tone, and I think that those who have commented along the lines of "I don't find it a problem, therefore nobody should" ought to be ashamed of their selfish, immature behaviour. Presumably they're Audi/modern BMW owners who stand on their brakes all the time.
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