Why do people buy expensive cars and not maintain them?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
PH has always had a habit of being more tyre brand obsessive but my recent experience of looking for a nippy estate around 6-8 years old was that I didn't look at a C43, 340 or S4 that didn't have mismatched tyres and at least one ditch finder. That's proper beer budget motoring on stuff that isn't smart to mix tyres on and where the previous owner had spent a fair amount on their car purchase but then had no means to replace tyres appropriately.
I think the vast majority of people arent as tyre aware as here on PH so when they go in to buy a couple of tyres they pick the ones that are "on offer" or the tyre place has in stock.I have been going with Michelin MPS4 over the last few years which my local preferred outlet never keeps in stock in the sizes i need, so he tends to pitch what he has available in stock rather than have to order me stuff in. He also knows he cant be competitive on odd ball sizes that are one off orders.
I'd imagine the bulk of people would just accept the "they're just as good" or "they're on offer" or "this brand is popular" that your average tyre outlet will pitch or even just look at them and think well why should i pay ££s more for something that looks the same.
Out of our family circle, i'd say theres maybe 3 or 4 people who would at very most get the tyres replaced with the same tyre that was on the car when new, or insist on a well known brand such as Michelin or Bridgestone or similar. They certainly wouldnt be researching tyres to understand which was the best of the newest releases.
The rest would be whatever the tyre place sold them (and as they pretty much all compete on price, its likely to be a cheap brand). I dont think any of them them have no means to replace them appropriately.
Whilst on here we appreciate the benefit of spending an extra £50 or £100 on a tyre i think Joe Average would just rather have the money in their pocket and see no reason to do otherwise, rather than them "having no means to replace tyres appropriately".
Another thing i see often is the car dealers when checking the tyres of a car being prepped will quite happily stick on a second hand mis matched tyre or some cheap tyre to get the car through MOT. And if questioned on it they will quite happily blame the previous owner.
Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 2nd November 08:50
My eldest lad fancies an Atom, he sent me this yesterday,
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
Deep Thought said:
I think the vast majority of people arent as tyre aware as here on PH so when they go in to buy a couple of tyres they pick the ones that are "on offer" or the tyre place has in stock.
I have been going with Michelin MPS4 over the last few years which my local preferred outlet never keeps in stock in the sizes i need, so he tends to pitch what he has available in stock rather than have to order me stuff in. He also knows he cant be competitive on odd ball sizes that are one off orders.
I'm a bit tyre obsessed and I have been for many years now, and one of the things I enjoy about going to car shows is mostly seeing all the premium tyres on the cars that are there. I have been going with Michelin MPS4 over the last few years which my local preferred outlet never keeps in stock in the sizes i need, so he tends to pitch what he has available in stock rather than have to order me stuff in. He also knows he cant be competitive on odd ball sizes that are one off orders.
I was up at TOTB at Elvington airstrip near York earlier this year(been going there on and off for 20 years now), and almost all the cars there had MPS4S on them(whether that be the cars competing or the cars in the public car park). I was loving it!
It did make me wonder how they all afford pilot sport tyres though...because they aren't exactly cheap. There was a period in my life when I couldn't afford Michelins, so I'm grateful that I can now for sure.
When I couldn't afford the Michelins, I made a mistake of going for Nankangs(this was over 20 years ago on the Mk5 RS2000), and the Nankangs turned the car into a death trap for me. So since then I've tried to push myself to use far better tyres than those if I can. I have been told that Nankangs are much better nowadays though, but I won't be risking it with them again though!
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm a bit tyre obsessed and I have been for many years now, and one of the things I enjoy about going to car shows is mostly seeing all the premium tyres on the cars that are there.
I was up at TOTB at Elvington airstrip near York earlier this year(been going there on and off for 20 years now), and almost all the cars there had MPS4S on them(whether that be the cars competing or the cars in the public car park). I was loving it!
It did make me wonder how they all afford pilot sport tyres though...because they aren't exactly cheap. There was a period in my life when I couldn't afford Michelins, so I'm grateful that I can now for sure.
When I couldn't afford the Michelins, I made a mistake of going for Nankangs(this was over 20 years ago on the Mk5 RS2000), and the Nankangs turned the car into a death trap for me. So since then I've tried to push myself to use far better tyres than those if I can. I have been told that Nankangs are much better nowadays though, but I won't be risking it with them again though!
Nangkang AR1’s are pretty much the best track day tyre out there!I was up at TOTB at Elvington airstrip near York earlier this year(been going there on and off for 20 years now), and almost all the cars there had MPS4S on them(whether that be the cars competing or the cars in the public car park). I was loving it!
It did make me wonder how they all afford pilot sport tyres though...because they aren't exactly cheap. There was a period in my life when I couldn't afford Michelins, so I'm grateful that I can now for sure.
When I couldn't afford the Michelins, I made a mistake of going for Nankangs(this was over 20 years ago on the Mk5 RS2000), and the Nankangs turned the car into a death trap for me. So since then I've tried to push myself to use far better tyres than those if I can. I have been told that Nankangs are much better nowadays though, but I won't be risking it with them again though!
It may be, because that it is one thing for a person to demonstrate how wealthy they are by having a very expensive car.
Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
Pan Pan Pan said:
It may be, because that it is one thing for a person to demonstrate how wealthy they are by having a very expensive car.
Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
Well i guess theres that extreme at one end, i do think that the middle ground of people out there dont really know or care enough about tyres to get anything other than whats on offer or what looks like good value when they need tyres. And probably in reality if they're getting a middle ground tyre i'm sure it'll be fine. Yes, if they go for some budget chinese offering that could be problematic.Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
Deep Thought said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
It may be, because that it is one thing for a person to demonstrate how wealthy they are by having a very expensive car.
Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
Well i guess theres that extreme at one end, i do think that the middle ground of people out there dont really know or care enough about tyres to get anything other than whats on offer or what looks like good value when they need tyres. And probably in reality if they're getting a middle ground tyre i'm sure it'll be fine. Yes, if they go for some budget chinese offering that could be problematic.Possibly someone who can afford a every expensive car, but not look after it, might suggest even greater wealth, such that for them, an expensive car is of little or no importance.
Apparently in the Gulf States all sorts of very, very expensive cars, are just left in car parks gathering dust, as if their owners have either forgotten where they left them. or just cannot be bothered to go to the car park, to pick them up?
The Nankangs proved to me personally that you just don't get what you pay for with cheap tyres though(granted there will be the odd exception). So since then(providing I can afford them) I've gone in the direction of the more premium brands instead.
I used to really like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D2 and GS-D3 that I had on the 200SX back in 2002 to 2006 for example as well. It is good to hear that Nankangs have improved over the last 20 years in fairness...they certainly couldn't have got any worse that is for sure!
I had a similar experience. As a kid all the crap cars I picked up were awful to drive, comedy understeer and sliding around in the wet like a bar of soap, which I put down to them being old and crap.
Then I bought a 1992 Clio that drove like nothing I'd had before, it stuck to the road, went where it was pointed, didn't skid and slide under braking. "Wow" I thought "Clios are amazing"
Fast forward a few months and it needed some tyres, I seem to recall it had Goodyears fitted, so I had my usual £20 specials fitted and all of a sudden my wonderful race car for the road Clio was as much of a foul driving s
tbox as all my other sheds.
Turns out that they're not all the same as long as they're black and round
I haven't bought a no name budget tyre since, although sadly I have had plenty of experience with cars someone else has fitted them to, and if anything I'd say modern ditchfinders are even worse than early 00s ditchfinders.
Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 was a super tyre, I found the first Eagle Assymetric to be a significant backwards step at the time. You could also drive (slowly) in snow on the directional stuff like the GSD3, they had some lateral element to the tread pattern to give you some "bite", but with modern assymetric tyres with big grooves around the circumference you are totally stuffed.
Then I bought a 1992 Clio that drove like nothing I'd had before, it stuck to the road, went where it was pointed, didn't skid and slide under braking. "Wow" I thought "Clios are amazing"
Fast forward a few months and it needed some tyres, I seem to recall it had Goodyears fitted, so I had my usual £20 specials fitted and all of a sudden my wonderful race car for the road Clio was as much of a foul driving s
tbox as all my other sheds. Turns out that they're not all the same as long as they're black and round
I haven't bought a no name budget tyre since, although sadly I have had plenty of experience with cars someone else has fitted them to, and if anything I'd say modern ditchfinders are even worse than early 00s ditchfinders.
Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 was a super tyre, I found the first Eagle Assymetric to be a significant backwards step at the time. You could also drive (slowly) in snow on the directional stuff like the GSD3, they had some lateral element to the tread pattern to give you some "bite", but with modern assymetric tyres with big grooves around the circumference you are totally stuffed.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Thursday 2nd November 11:18
99% of the cars on the road never get pushed hard enough to ever explore the limits of even the worse tyres available today.
Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
This could be a thread in itself!
When new to driving at 17 the best compromise tyre were the Marshall Power Racers.
Fitted them to everything & they were pretty good, but in fairness they only had to cope with 1 ton and 100-150bhp in the cars I was driving then.
Later I moved to Falken for anything remotely sporty but a taxi driver friend of mine swore by Accellera which got fitted to my daily drivers and were really good.
I had Accellera Notos on my old P38 Range Rover as frankly that was hardly going to dynamically bother them and they were 100% better than the not worn out but time expired & hard as rock Michelins that it probably left the factory with!
Classics get the tyre they should be on IMHO.
So my Jaguar XJ-S always sat on Pirelli P600.
My 635CSi had aftermarket wheels to get it off Metric tyres, but now I’d keep it on Metrics as I can afford the cost.
As far as ‘snobbery’ goes I do judge an <8 year old prestige car on anything other than premium tyres, and when looking for a Range Rover for myself walked away from one which had a Continental, Pirelli, Accellera, mix at <50000 miles.
The above posters stating that some ‘off brand’ tyres are very good are correct & it’s always worth keeping an open mind.
When new to driving at 17 the best compromise tyre were the Marshall Power Racers.
Fitted them to everything & they were pretty good, but in fairness they only had to cope with 1 ton and 100-150bhp in the cars I was driving then.
Later I moved to Falken for anything remotely sporty but a taxi driver friend of mine swore by Accellera which got fitted to my daily drivers and were really good.
I had Accellera Notos on my old P38 Range Rover as frankly that was hardly going to dynamically bother them and they were 100% better than the not worn out but time expired & hard as rock Michelins that it probably left the factory with!
Classics get the tyre they should be on IMHO.
So my Jaguar XJ-S always sat on Pirelli P600.
My 635CSi had aftermarket wheels to get it off Metric tyres, but now I’d keep it on Metrics as I can afford the cost.
As far as ‘snobbery’ goes I do judge an <8 year old prestige car on anything other than premium tyres, and when looking for a Range Rover for myself walked away from one which had a Continental, Pirelli, Accellera, mix at <50000 miles.
The above posters stating that some ‘off brand’ tyres are very good are correct & it’s always worth keeping an open mind.
I guess to a lot of people it is just a tool in the same way a washing machine is. They just use it and don't even give a second thought about it. I have been at the tip before and seen people dragging tree branches out of the back of their brand new Mercedes across the leather seats. I just wonder what goes through these peoples heads when they do this but I guess ultimately they don't care and are just using it.
Same with houses, there are two houses in my road that are owned by "eccentric" people and they are basically letting them fall down through lack of maintenance. The first house is worth £1 million and the guy has let a tree grow in his front garden that is now pushing over the wall and has lifted all the pavement.
The other house is worth £2 million+ and looks like it hasn't been touched in 40 years with mouldy net curtains hanging up at the walls.
Ultimately these people don't care.
Same with houses, there are two houses in my road that are owned by "eccentric" people and they are basically letting them fall down through lack of maintenance. The first house is worth £1 million and the guy has let a tree grow in his front garden that is now pushing over the wall and has lifted all the pavement.
The other house is worth £2 million+ and looks like it hasn't been touched in 40 years with mouldy net curtains hanging up at the walls.
Ultimately these people don't care.
Harry H said:
99% of the cars on the road never get pushed hard enough to ever explore the limits of even the worse tyres available today.
Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
Completely disagree with this. Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
As a member of Zipcar, I tried basically the same model of Golf on OE premium tyres and ditchfinders on older cars. The ditchfinders were dangerous at every day speeds if remotely wet. Will never forget almost contacting the kerb of a roundabout because of serious understeer. That roundabout was local to me, never had a problem before on premium tyres. If I was going slightly faster, I would have banged the wheel into the kerb with almost full lock applied. That wouldn’t have been pretty.
I recently hired a Ford Galaxy with ditchfinders. It was dry. I stepped on it at 50mph in lane 1 to accelerate into lane 2 with a tiny bit of right steer applied. The car had mismatched ditchfinders. One side had grip and the other side didn’t, it torque steered across lane 2, crossing into lane 3. I had to yank the wheel to the left. Haven’t crapped myself like that for ages. This in a 130bhp diesel. I would say that was dangerous.
wyson said:
Harry H said:
99% of the cars on the road never get pushed hard enough to ever explore the limits of even the worse tyres available today.
Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
Completely disagree with this. Let's be honest going fast enough to explore a tyres grip is deemed so antisocial now there's very rarely the opportunity to do so. I'd even go as far to say a tyre with less overall grip is actually more fun. Predicability is all that matters when we're all going so slow.
As a member of Zipcar, I tried basically the same model of Golf on OE premium tyres and ditchfinders on older cars. The ditchfinders were dangerous at every day speeds if remotely wet. Will never forget almost contacting the kerb of a roundabout because of serious understeer. That roundabout was local to me, never had a problem before on premium tyres. If I was going slightly faster, I would have banged the wheel into the kerb with almost full lock applied. That wouldn’t have been pretty.
I recently hired a Ford Galaxy with ditchfinders. It was dry. I stepped on it at 50mph in lane 1 to accelerate into lane 2 with a tiny bit of right steer applied. The car had mismatched ditchfinders. One side had grip and the other side didn’t, it torque steered across lane 2, crossing into lane 3. I had to yank the wheel to the left. Haven’t crapped myself like that for ages. This in a 130bhp diesel. I would say that was dangerous.
Picked up a Peugeot 208 with 4 no name tyres, first drive was in the rain and the arse slid out very very alarmingly at 20MPH going round a bend on a 60 road. It would slide around in the wet at walking speed like the roads were icy, it was absolutely lethal. I'd not have loaned it to someone to use and I didn't drive it until they were in the bin.
Put a set of Vredestein all seasons on it and it was absolutely brilliant.
Not all budgets are like this, but the problem is you have no idea how bad or ok they might be until they're fitted.
wyson said:
Completely disagree with this.
As a member of Zipcar, I tried basically the same model of Golf on OE premium tyres and ditchfinders on older cars. The ditchfinders were dangerous at every day speeds if remotely wet. Will never forget almost contacting the kerb of a roundabout because of serious understeer. That roundabout was local to me, never had a problem before on premium tyres. If I was going slightly faster, I would have banged the wheel into the kerb with almost full lock applied. That wouldn’t have been pretty.
I recently hired a Ford Galaxy with ditchfinders. It was dry. I stepped on it at 50mph in lane 1 to accelerate into lane 2 with a tiny bit of right steer applied. The car had mismatched ditchfinders. One side had grip and the other side didn’t, it torque steered across lane 2, crossing into lane 3. I had to yank the wheel to the left. Haven’t crapped myself like that for ages. This in a 130bhp diesel. I would say that was dangerous.
I would agree with this. I had a second hand car with some cheapo tyres on and even at low speeds, particularly if wet and/or cold it was like being on ice. Even my better half who is not a speedy driver or one with much awareness of handling was amazed at the difference a set of Michelin CrossClimates made...As a member of Zipcar, I tried basically the same model of Golf on OE premium tyres and ditchfinders on older cars. The ditchfinders were dangerous at every day speeds if remotely wet. Will never forget almost contacting the kerb of a roundabout because of serious understeer. That roundabout was local to me, never had a problem before on premium tyres. If I was going slightly faster, I would have banged the wheel into the kerb with almost full lock applied. That wouldn’t have been pretty.
I recently hired a Ford Galaxy with ditchfinders. It was dry. I stepped on it at 50mph in lane 1 to accelerate into lane 2 with a tiny bit of right steer applied. The car had mismatched ditchfinders. One side had grip and the other side didn’t, it torque steered across lane 2, crossing into lane 3. I had to yank the wheel to the left. Haven’t crapped myself like that for ages. This in a 130bhp diesel. I would say that was dangerous.
J4CKO said:
My eldest lad fancies an Atom, he sent me this yesterday,
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
That's just criminal... It looks like it's on a mix of Rovelo (£54/corner) and Pace ii Impero (£40/corner). I wonder what other corners were cut in prepping for sale or general TLC.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
GeniusOfLove said:
Not all budgets are like this, but the problem is you have no idea how bad or ok they might be until they're fitted.
Lol, yeah, on the Galaxy, one of the ditchfinders had grip! But why risk it, if as you say, mid rangers like the ‘steins are well reviewed and offer substantial savings over premium?
One of the older Zipcar Golf’s had mid range Nexen’s fitted. It was slightly off compared to premium OE tyres, but quite acceptable, they definitely weren’t dangerous.
Having tried the gamut, I reckon with tyres, like most things, you have to pay a certain amount to reach a threshold of decentness / acceptability and from there on its a case of diminishing returns. That’s probably a decent mid ranger.
Edited by wyson on Thursday 2nd November 12:24
J1990 said:
J4CKO said:
My eldest lad fancies an Atom, he sent me this yesterday,
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
That's just criminal... It looks like it's on a mix of Rovelo (£54/corner) and Pace ii Impero (£40/corner). I wonder what other corners were cut in prepping for sale or general TLC.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310153...
He says the frame being painted is possibly something done from the factory, though never seen one like that, but not that well up on them, but its on what look like ditchfinders ?
If any car deserves decent tyres, surely an Ariel Atom is one ?
Anyone any thoughts on the frame being painted ? my worry it would be its the kind of thing you would do, if its not factory if its been damaged and you cant replicate the factory finish ?
2 reasons,
1) can't afford it
2) The car isnt a P&J and just part of a fleet of no fks given for it.
I can understand how it happens. What could be a gem of a car for some of us say a BMW M8 GC for another is a work horse and they are not fussed about if its bashed around and not serviced 100% on time or missed for a few months or run it till it needs chopped in out of laziness
1) can't afford it
2) The car isnt a P&J and just part of a fleet of no f
ks given for it. I can understand how it happens. What could be a gem of a car for some of us say a BMW M8 GC for another is a work horse and they are not fussed about if its bashed around and not serviced 100% on time or missed for a few months or run it till it needs chopped in out of laziness
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff