The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XIX)

[buccal]

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

Was thinking about this too when I watched the Autocar video.

With CSL prices in the stratosphere i wouldn’t imagine you would would need to spend much modding a decent a used manual M3 to make it a very special drive.

Obviously without the carbon roof etc

[Patrick Bateman]

Harry's Garage now has a Carrera GT video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbjvcDML7A

[Cheburator mk2]

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

For sure. A £40k E46 M3 would ring circles around quite a few car with double the cost...

[LetsTryAgain]

Cheburator mk2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

For sure. A £40k E46 M3 would ring circles around quite a few car with double the cost...

And be worth £20k.
Or buy a £45k CSL, that shouldn't be worth much less.

[Chris Stott]

Patrick Bateman said:

Harry's Garage now has a Carrera GT video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbjvcDML7A

The most desirable car of its type every built IMO.

After a 250GT SWB or Lusso, top of my dream list.

Sublime.

[ferrisbueller]

Chris Stott said:

Patrick Bateman said:

Harry's Garage now has a Carrera GT video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbjvcDML7A

The most desirable car of its type every built IMO.

After a 250GT SWB or Lusso, top of my dream list.

Sublime.

They're amazing bits of kit. Interesting comparison which doesn't get much press is the LFA which shares some of the crazy detail. And a similarly manic exhaust note https://youtu.be/F0m6dvpK4m8?t=19

[ferrisbueller]

buccal said:

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

Was thinking about this too when I watched the Autocar video.

With CSL prices in the stratosphere i wouldn’t imagine you would would need to spend much modding a decent a used manual M3 to make it a very special drive.

Obviously without the carbon roof etc

LetsTryAgain said:

Cheburator mk2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

For sure. A £40k E46 M3 would ring circles around quite a few car with double the cost...

And be worth £20k.
Or buy a £45k CSL, that shouldn't be worth much less.

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

The smart move might actually be buying a more common CS SMG and converting it to manual.

[Cactussed]

For reference, I have a cooking M3, with the following (amongst other things):
Carbon airbox and associated mapping
6 pot brakes
Short diff
Coilovers and polybushed (and subfloor reinforced)
100 cell cats
Short shift kit
Genuine CSL rear lid (stock front as I wanted the foglights).

It also retains heated seats, cruise control and other things which I enjoy for all weather use, plus the factory roof racks (for carrying Xmas trees) and sunroof (which I enjoy). I could fit a purple steering rack for a couple of hundred quid but its a daily, not a track car. the best mods by a huge margin are the carbon airbox followed by the brakes. The short diff is great but pricey.

As it stands, its a hoot to drive but also manages to take the kids / family on longer drives when necessary and got to B&Q / garden centre / Tesco.

I'm sure the lightweight interior, carbon roof and quick steering rack all add to the experience but possibly not £45k worth and I'm fairly sure mine wouldn't fetch £25k in the open market. Bought in 2015 and can't see it going anywhere soon.

[braddo]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Leins said:

I always found the SMG really suited the whole nature of the CSL. I wouldn’t have particularly wanted a full manual in it

Agree a 100% - the CSL was designed to take the game to the 996GT3 on track and beat it, which it did rather convincingly when it did “that” 7:50lap of the Ring. Part of the appeal of the CSL is the SMG.

I am sick to the teeth of the media rubbishing the SMG. When properly set up it is an absolutely brilliant system. Easily the best robotised manual - better than the rubbish Magnetti-Marelli found in F430s, F599s and various Maseratis.

What this guy has done is akin to me wanting to put a PDK in my 996.1 CS because it shifts faster than the 6-spd G50 based unit. But it’s his car, so I don’t blame him...

Whereas some people don't care how good and/or characterful a 2-pedal setup is - they just want 3 pedals! A manual CSL with a light flywheel would be a bit like BMW's equivalent to a GT3 RS (or 996.1 CS with single mass flywheel).

Whereas I guess if someone really didn't want a manual GT3 they could install a sequential gearbox into their 996 to 'beat' the CSL, or put a 997 Cup (which already has a sequential) on the road.

My view is if there were manual CSLs from the factory they would be attracting a premium versus SMG cars...

[mat205125]

ferrisbueller said:

buccal said:

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

Was thinking about this too when I watched the Autocar video.

With CSL prices in the stratosphere i wouldn’t imagine you would would need to spend much modding a decent a used manual M3 to make it a very special drive.

Obviously without the carbon roof etc

LetsTryAgain said:

Cheburator mk2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

As factory car, that's great. But, wouldn't a breathed on E46 M3 be as effective? And half the dollar.

For sure. A £40k E46 M3 would ring circles around quite a few car with double the cost...

And be worth £20k.
Or buy a £45k CSL, that shouldn't be worth much less.

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

The smart move might actually be buying a more common CS SMG and converting it to manual.

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

[HM-2]

ferrisbueller said:

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

Of those the rack is the only really important one- the CSL brakes, though improved, aren't that impressive, and a decent set of aftermarket forged or flow-formed 18" wheels will be lighter than the CSLs- and let you explore other tyre options too.
Late, but pre-CS E46 M3 with the usual choice upgrades (KWs, APs, Purple Tag steering rack, nice lightweight 18" wheels and a rorty exhaust) will get you a CS++ for well under £25k.

This one would make a nice base, plenty of change for upgrades. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 13th January 17:23

[Patrick Bateman]

mat205125 said:

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

I've always had half an eye on the e46 but the simple fact of having far less to worry about regarding rust means the e9x cars get a look in.

[ferrisbueller]

mat205125 said:

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

Whisper it, but I prefer the 46.

HM-2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

Of those the rack is the only really important one- the CSL brakes, though improved, aren't that impressive, and a decent set of aftermarket forged or flow-formed 18" wheels will be lighter than the CSLs- and let you explore other tyre options too.
Late, but pre-CS E46 M3 with the usual choice upgrades (KWs, APs, Purple Tag steering rack, nice lightweight 18" wheels and a rorty exhaust) will get you a CS++ for well under £25k.

This one would make a nice base, plenty of change for upgrades. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 13th January 17:23

Agree. Mine was OK with the appropriate Pagid/Line/Fluid upgrades but the ubiquitous AP upgrade was still a better option.

The point above was that a CS is perhaps a better bet from a residual value perspective, per the comment about the CSL being a £40k car and an M3 with extra £££££ thrown at it, not being worth the sum of its parts.

[bungle]

An E46 M3 is one of those cars I keep coming back to, but have never owned one. I think I need to.

Always looked at the CS and thought is it really worth the premium? Would love a CSL with manual conversion but I think that ship has sailed for me (price).

Just looks "right"...

[Cheburator mk2]

A small car selling rant if I may...

There was a thread purchase on Saturday...

After 5yrs and nearly 50k miles of faithful service the old X5 4.8iS is going and it’s being replaced by a fully, and I mean fully loaded F15 X5 50i, which is being collected on Wednesday.

The supplying dealer gave me a part-x figure and was honest enough to say that selling privately I would probably get double that...

... and that’s where the trouble started...

I wrote an honest add, took some pictures and stuck the car on eBay with a starting bid set at the guaranteed part-Ex by the dealer. Oh my God! All the pond life across the country seems to be in a conspiratorial clique hell bent on messaging me with offers of cash...

Asking me if it has a sunroof, when the photos show a lot of glass in the roof structure, asking me about the state of the tyres, given that I have even listed the make, size and thread depths. Trying to beat me down on the offer price using cooking 4.4i with Landsail tyres or asking really rubbish general questions, when I have written a mini version of War & Peace describing the car.

No wonder WBAC are so successful. But I shall persevere- the add has been on for 8hrs and I have 58 watchers, so I am quietly confident that the dealer was on the money in his prediction.

As for the X5 50i - epic doesn’t even begin to describe it, thus I am super excited for Wednesday, but something of the old 4.8 hooligan character has been lost to twin turbo charging. Which is a damn shame!

[Fast Bug]

I hate selling things to the public, most of the time you're lucky to get an email with 3 legible words in it, more often than not you just get a figure that's nowhere near what you're asking for and nothing else in the email. Those are the people I'd cull first if I was in charge of the country

[ATM]

ferrisbueller said:

mat205125 said:

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

Whisper it, but I prefer the 46.

HM-2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

Of those the rack is the only really important one- the CSL brakes, though improved, aren't that impressive, and a decent set of aftermarket forged or flow-formed 18" wheels will be lighter than the CSLs- and let you explore other tyre options too.
Late, but pre-CS E46 M3 with the usual choice upgrades (KWs, APs, Purple Tag steering rack, nice lightweight 18" wheels and a rorty exhaust) will get you a CS++ for well under £25k.

This one would make a nice base, plenty of change for upgrades. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 13th January 17:23

Agree. Mine was OK with the appropriate Pagid/Line/Fluid upgrades but the ubiquitous AP upgrade was still a better option.

The point above was that a CS is perhaps a better bet from a residual value perspective, per the comment about the CSL being a £40k car and an M3 with extra £££££ thrown at it, not being worth the sum of its parts.

I've had an e46 and just didnt get on with the seat. Not sports car enough. I drove a csl for about 10 minutes many years ago and the seat made it for me but that was my first experience of fixed buckets. I think you need to factor in for seats too if you want to build yourself a home brewed CSL.

[ferrisbueller]

ATM said:

ferrisbueller said:

mat205125 said:

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

Whisper it, but I prefer the 46.

HM-2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

Of those the rack is the only really important one- the CSL brakes, though improved, aren't that impressive, and a decent set of aftermarket forged or flow-formed 18" wheels will be lighter than the CSLs- and let you explore other tyre options too.
Late, but pre-CS E46 M3 with the usual choice upgrades (KWs, APs, Purple Tag steering rack, nice lightweight 18" wheels and a rorty exhaust) will get you a CS++ for well under £25k.

This one would make a nice base, plenty of change for upgrades. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 13th January 17:23

Agree. Mine was OK with the appropriate Pagid/Line/Fluid upgrades but the ubiquitous AP upgrade was still a better option.

The point above was that a CS is perhaps a better bet from a residual value perspective, per the comment about the CSL being a £40k car and an M3 with extra £££££ thrown at it, not being worth the sum of its parts.

I've had an e46 and just didnt get on with the seat. Not sports car enough. I drove a csl for about 10 minutes many years ago and the seat made it for me but that was my first experience of fixed buckets. I think you need to factor in for seats too if you want to build yourself a home brewed CSL.

What seat is in your 996? Obviously not stock?

[ATM]

ferrisbueller said:

ATM said:

ferrisbueller said:

mat205125 said:

Just start with a manual E92 V8 Coupe M3

Whisper it, but I prefer the 46.

HM-2 said:

ferrisbueller said:

You could offset some of that with a manual CS, which is about £25k (and rising). It lacks the carbon roof and other weight saving and a couple of engine bits, but has things like the brakes, wheels and steering rack.

Of those the rack is the only really important one- the CSL brakes, though improved, aren't that impressive, and a decent set of aftermarket forged or flow-formed 18" wheels will be lighter than the CSLs- and let you explore other tyre options too.
Late, but pre-CS E46 M3 with the usual choice upgrades (KWs, APs, Purple Tag steering rack, nice lightweight 18" wheels and a rorty exhaust) will get you a CS++ for well under £25k.

This one would make a nice base, plenty of change for upgrades. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 13th January 17:23

Agree. Mine was OK with the appropriate Pagid/Line/Fluid upgrades but the ubiquitous AP upgrade was still a better option.

The point above was that a CS is perhaps a better bet from a residual value perspective, per the comment about the CSL being a £40k car and an M3 with extra £££££ thrown at it, not being worth the sum of its parts.

I've had an e46 and just didnt get on with the seat. Not sports car enough. I drove a csl for about 10 minutes many years ago and the seat made it for me but that was my first experience of fixed buckets. I think you need to factor in for seats too if you want to build yourself a home brewed CSL.

What seat is in your 996? Obviously not stock?

Still stock
Also not great but much better than e46

[HM-2]

ATM said:

I've had an e46 and just didnt get on with the seat. Not sports car enough. I drove a csl for about 10 minutes many years ago and the seat made it for me but that was my first experience of fixed buckets. I think you need to factor in for seats too if you want to build yourself a home brewed CSL.

Good point! The standard M3 seats are fine, but not great. The CSL fixed buckets are excellent...as long as you're pretty "normal" in stature.