engine swap taking ages
Discussion
john12091986 said:
looks like he has just about shut his website down now too
Indeed:http://www.faautomotive.co.uk/system/app/pages/rec...
More than likely the guy is reading this. It's got his garage name, your name, the make of car, the town you live, etc. Would be very easy to find through Google.
I really don't envy your position. I think that if you have any chance of getting your car back it means turning up. But how to do it. You might need a few people not afraid to physical with the guy. Be prepared for trailering away a car in bits - I think a customer of the Heathrow lot ended up with their engine on the back seat
At what point would the police take an interest?
NiceCupOfTea said:
Indeed:
http://www.faautomotive.co.uk/system/app/pages/rec...
More than likely the guy is reading this. It's got his garage name, your name, the make of car, the town you live, etc. Would be very easy to find through Google.
Anyone like to take bets on our recent additional poster in the last few pages being the webmaster for FA Automotive?http://www.faautomotive.co.uk/system/app/pages/rec...
More than likely the guy is reading this. It's got his garage name, your name, the make of car, the town you live, etc. Would be very easy to find through Google.
Last Friday andy43 said:
This sounds exactly like Heathrow Engines.
Their ebay ad for the Espace engine with 34k on it - quantity 2
Look at the website - dodgy. 100%.
Look at the feedback they've got - one of their satisfied customers is here - http://shop.ebay.co.uk/www*newautofit*co*uk/m.html...
Look at their items for sale - engines - in cars on the same ramps in the same workshops as your guys.
There's good advice above re the recorded letter etc. But if they aren't working on the car, I'm guessing if they have the car stood for 7 days, storage will be charged.
Tell them to stop work. Now. Ask them for a bill for the work to date - itemised, listing parts (none, I'm guessing) and labour hours. If they say the new engine is in the car, ask to see your old one. Look for engine numbers, check for bolts that look undisturbed on the engine mounts etc. Take a mechanic if you have to.
Betcha the engine in the car is yours. Betcha they don't have a replacement engine, let alone two of them.
I'd seriously consider paying the bill, just to get the car out of there.
Even if you have to call the police, trading standards, the AA, the Samaritans or the coastguard to get the car out of there - phone 'em.
Go get the car. Just read the last 5 days of postings - I really can't believe it's still with the garage considering what people have said on here.Their ebay ad for the Espace engine with 34k on it - quantity 2
Look at the website - dodgy. 100%.
Look at the feedback they've got - one of their satisfied customers is here - http://shop.ebay.co.uk/www*newautofit*co*uk/m.html...
Look at their items for sale - engines - in cars on the same ramps in the same workshops as your guys.There's good advice above re the recorded letter etc. But if they aren't working on the car, I'm guessing if they have the car stood for 7 days, storage will be charged.
Tell them to stop work. Now. Ask them for a bill for the work to date - itemised, listing parts (none, I'm guessing) and labour hours. If they say the new engine is in the car, ask to see your old one. Look for engine numbers, check for bolts that look undisturbed on the engine mounts etc. Take a mechanic if you have to.
Betcha the engine in the car is yours. Betcha they don't have a replacement engine, let alone two of them.
I'd seriously consider paying the bill, just to get the car out of there.
Even if you have to call the police, trading standards, the AA, the Samaritans or the coastguard to get the car out of there - phone 'em.
bus pass said:
NiceCupOfTea said:
At what point would the police take an interest?
It will be a civil matter sir, unless of course you dare to exceed the speed limit on your way home.Then they'll turn up to nick you!
I know a lot of people on here are saying 2 days for an engine swap but I hope people aren't beginning to form unrealistic opinions of what can be achieved at the workshop.
I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap. 5 weeks is ridiculous though.
- Your car won't be the only car that's being worked on as the garage has to continue to make money while your car is in the workshop so they will be doing other cars in between.
- People who work on cars for a living don't like to constantly work on cars for 8 hours of the day. They would rather take their time, spilt it up, have breaks, do a few other bits, personal stuff, work on a couple of different cars, etc... same as pen-pushers in offices don't spend a solid 8 hours of every day filling in forms.
- Ordering parts after the engine has been removed is not unlikely and does delay the refitting of the engine. Particularly if it is a weekend, if the parts are second-hand or if the parts come from overseas or if they have to be ordered online. New simple items or pattern-parts can normally be got the same day. Things like exhausts, brakes, etc... Other stuff can take between 3 and 5 days to arrive.
- Don't underestimate the amount of time which has to be spent messing around. Things like getting the engine hoist into position, getting the new engine from the point where it has been delivered to the part of the workshop where it will be used - they can't be carried, they have to be transported across the workshop. All these little things add up.
It's true, if you have both engines sitting there, one in the car, one on the floor next to the car. If they are exactly the same engine. If the car is simple and you know what you're doing. If ancillaries are attached or have to be moved from the other engine. If you have all the parts and equipment necessary to complete the job. etc, etc, etc... then the swap can be completed in 6 hours.
I know, I've done it.
I think the £2100 starting price for doing this job is fairly steep! I also think the option of rebuilding the damaged engine seems to have been ignored?
I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap. 5 weeks is ridiculous though.
- Your car won't be the only car that's being worked on as the garage has to continue to make money while your car is in the workshop so they will be doing other cars in between.
- People who work on cars for a living don't like to constantly work on cars for 8 hours of the day. They would rather take their time, spilt it up, have breaks, do a few other bits, personal stuff, work on a couple of different cars, etc... same as pen-pushers in offices don't spend a solid 8 hours of every day filling in forms.
- Ordering parts after the engine has been removed is not unlikely and does delay the refitting of the engine. Particularly if it is a weekend, if the parts are second-hand or if the parts come from overseas or if they have to be ordered online. New simple items or pattern-parts can normally be got the same day. Things like exhausts, brakes, etc... Other stuff can take between 3 and 5 days to arrive.
- Don't underestimate the amount of time which has to be spent messing around. Things like getting the engine hoist into position, getting the new engine from the point where it has been delivered to the part of the workshop where it will be used - they can't be carried, they have to be transported across the workshop. All these little things add up.
It's true, if you have both engines sitting there, one in the car, one on the floor next to the car. If they are exactly the same engine. If the car is simple and you know what you're doing. If ancillaries are attached or have to be moved from the other engine. If you have all the parts and equipment necessary to complete the job. etc, etc, etc... then the swap can be completed in 6 hours.
I know, I've done it.
I think the £2100 starting price for doing this job is fairly steep! I also think the option of rebuilding the damaged engine seems to have been ignored?
ejenner said:
I know a lot of people on here are saying 2 days for an engine swap but I hope people aren't beginning to form unrealistic opinions of what can be achieved at the workshop.
I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
Remind me never to get you to do an engines aswap for me.I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
ejenner said:
I know a lot of people on here are saying 2 days for an engine swap but I hope people aren't beginning to form unrealistic opinions of what can be achieved at the workshop.
I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
Remind me never to get you to do an engines aswap for me.I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
Last swap I had was charged (I think) 7 hrs labour over 2 days, partly caused by me as I decided to have some extra work done on some rust once the engine was out....
zaphod42 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
ejenner said:
I know a lot of people on here are saying 2 days for an engine swap but I hope people aren't beginning to form unrealistic opinions of what can be achieved at the workshop.
I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
Remind me never to get you to do an engines aswap for me.I would always budget 1 to 2 weeks for an engine swap.
Last swap I had was charged (I think) 7 hrs labour over 2 days, partly caused by me as I decided to have some extra work done on some rust once the engine was out....
I was quoted 7hours to take out the 2.0 lump and drop a 2.8 into the beemer, or a day an a half to take out the 2.0 and dump in a 2.5td lump
How many of you work in a garage?
The theoretical time is 3 to 4 hours to remove. 3 to 4 hours to put it back.
The realistic time from the point when the customer drops the car off (which is the time the customer is counting from) to the time when the customer drives the car away is not the same as the theoretical 7 hours.
I’ve actually heard this nonsense so many times before.
Who discounts the possibility that once an engine is out a part may be required?
Who is going to deny the chances of a worst case scenario situation of a part having to be ordered from a warehouse in another country or from an online-retailer? In both cases taking at least 2 days but more likely 3 to 4 days?
NOW... how does this:
The theoretical time is 3 to 4 hours to remove. 3 to 4 hours to put it back.
The realistic time from the point when the customer drops the car off (which is the time the customer is counting from) to the time when the customer drives the car away is not the same as the theoretical 7 hours.
I’ve actually heard this nonsense so many times before.
Who discounts the possibility that once an engine is out a part may be required?
Who is going to deny the chances of a worst case scenario situation of a part having to be ordered from a warehouse in another country or from an online-retailer? In both cases taking at least 2 days but more likely 3 to 4 days?
NOW... how does this:
ejenner said:
It's true, if you have both engines sitting there, one in the car, one on the floor next to the car. If they are exactly the same engine. If the car is simple and you know what you're doing. If ancillaries are attached or have to be moved from the other engine. If you have all the parts and equipment necessary to complete the job. etc, etc, etc... then the swap can be completed in 6 hours.
I know, I've done it.
and this..I know, I've done it.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Remind me never to get you to do an engines aswap for me.
...go together? I dont need to have worked in a workshop before, I have changed a fair few engines myself and had a few do at workshops.
also the secong you started using this as an excuse for taking longer I crossed you off my list.
also the secong you started using this as an excuse for taking longer I crossed you off my list.
ejenner said:
- Don't underestimate the amount of time which has to be spent messing around. Things like getting the engine hoist into position, getting the new engine from the point where it has been delivered to the part of the workshop where it will be used - they can't be carried, they have to be transported across the workshop. All these little things add up.
As for parts if I came to you for an engine swap and the one you sourced starting needing lots of new parts on it I wouldnt be very happy about it.pinchmeimdreamin said:
As for parts if I came to you for an engine swap and the one you sourced starting needing lots of new parts on it I wouldnt be very happy about it.
Workign at my mates garage in the 80's, where he rebuilt write offs and modified cars, he realised that two escort mk3 driveltrains got swapped about during rebuild, and needed to correct it as one car had been sold to a (not very nice) copper for his daughter. So, prior to completign coppers car, thankfully, the other mk3 was booked in for a service, where she was goignto wait for the car!! We managed to swap over the engine and gearboxes, and service the "new" engine, and she was none the wiser! She was only there just over a hour! tMInd you she did thank us for the work and for fixing the 5th gear than never worked before....Yes, it came in a 4 speed, and went out a 5, and she still never sussed! Even the different gearnob and reverse position did not register, she just thought we had "fixed" 5th, that never worked before!
Hahaah, the good old days! And everyone was happy as a sandboy!
s3fella said:
Workign at my mates garage in the 80's, where he rebuilt write offs and modified cars, he realised that two escort mk3 driveltrains got swapped about during rebuild, and needed to correct it as one car had been sold to a (not very nice) copper for his daughter. So, prior to completign coppers car, thankfully, the other mk3 was booked in for a service, where she was goignto wait for the car!! We managed to swap over the engine and gearboxes, and service the "new" engine, and she was none the wiser! She was only there just over a hour! t
MInd you she did thank us for the work and for fixing the 5th gear than never worked before....Yes, it came in a 4 speed, and went out a 5, and she still never sussed! Even the different gearnob and reverse position did not register, she just thought we had "fixed" 5th, that never worked before!
Hahaah, the good old days! And everyone was happy as a sandboy!
But surely getting the engine crane into position took a week?MInd you she did thank us for the work and for fixing the 5th gear than never worked before....Yes, it came in a 4 speed, and went out a 5, and she still never sussed! Even the different gearnob and reverse position did not register, she just thought we had "fixed" 5th, that never worked before!
Hahaah, the good old days! And everyone was happy as a sandboy!
doogz said:
ejenner said:
For example. What if you find one of the engine mounts is split after you have taken the engine out?
Order a new one. If it's not with you the next morning at the latest, find yourself a new supplier.5 weeks is completely unnacceptable, i'm sure you're not trying to disagree, so what is your point?
I mean, really, getting the engine crane into position? Shifting the engine from one side of the workshop to the other? How long do you think these things take to do?
Anyone who wants to bulls
t over how long it takes to 'actually' do things is more than welcome to go ahead but I've spent my whole career working in jobs doing things where the customer wants to know how long it will take. First in the IT industry and now in the motor industry. It is seriously unprofessional to quote 7 hours for an engine swap. Likewise, to keep a customer’s car for 5 weeks is well beyond reasonable if you've not even started the work as in this case. Maybe if you had a special customer who was going to watch you do the work and wanted his track car ready in time for an event tomorrow then you could say I'll do my best to get it sorted and just work on into the night until it was done. Under the right circumstances it is possible. In the real world things are different.
Heres an example: Time it takes to take a wheel off and put it back on again in a workshop.
1. Get the car into the workshop from the carpark outside. Maybe have to move another car out of the way first. = 5 minutes
2. Get the right size socket, a breaker bar, remove the wheel cap and loosen the nuts = 5 minutes
3. Raise the car up either on the workshop lift or using a jack. Get the jack or drive the car onto the lift and raise it up. = 5 minutes
4. Switch the socket to an impact wrench (or something other than the breaker bar) and remove the wheel nuts = 2 minutes
5. Take the wheel off, put it back on, centre it on the hub and line up the bolt holes assuming not studs. Using your fingers put the bolts back into the holes finger tight and then tighten up using the impact wrench = 2 minutes.
6. Get the car off the jack or workshop lift = 2 minutes
7. Switch the socket back to the breaker bar and tighten the wheel lugs = 1 minute
8. Drive the car back out of the workshop = 1 minute.
Total = 23 minutes. Even if you divide that in half because you think I'm exaggerating it is still 11 or 12 minutes.
Rally stage mechanics can change engines and gearboxes in very short periods of time because there won’t be any surprises and they have systems which allow several guys to work on a car at the same time with all the right tools and equipment. In a typical commercial workshop you don’t have someone standing there waiting to hand you a 17mm spanner so you have to go to the tool cabinet and get it yourself. = 30 to 60 seconds.
It all adds up and time dissappears very quickly when you're not watching.
23 mins? I can do it in much less with the jack on my drive for one wheel, with the kit out of my boot... 
My local tyre place (nothing fancy) will swap 4 winter tyres for 4 summer tyres in an hour, so I suggest you need to review your processes..
(Just for clarity on my previous post, I said 7 hrs of labour charged, not 7 hrs of elapsed time. It was over 2 days, and to be fair to the mechanic, he charged just that. It may have taken him longer, but that's all he charged me.)
My local tyre place (nothing fancy) will swap 4 winter tyres for 4 summer tyres in an hour, so I suggest you need to review your processes..
(Just for clarity on my previous post, I said 7 hrs of labour charged, not 7 hrs of elapsed time. It was over 2 days, and to be fair to the mechanic, he charged just that. It may have taken him longer, but that's all he charged me.)
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