RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman
Discussion
kambites said:
cvega said:
Why does a Civic Type-R, weighing the same, and same engine power manage 6.4s/60?
Presumably, gear ratios. This runs the standing quarter mile faster than the Type-R despite being down on it to 60. Urban Sports said:
200bhp is a bit puny for a sports coupe though isn't it especially one at £25+k,
like it or not that will put plenty of buyers off.
It will certainly put some buyers off (as these threads demonstrate). There are also plenty that it wont put off (as these threads also demonstrate). like it or not that will put plenty of buyers off.
Urban Sports said:
kambites said:
It will certainly put some buyers off (as these threads demonstrate). There are also plenty that it wont put off (as these threads also demonstrate).
See how long it takes them to up the power.
Apologies if someones mentioned this, I haven't had time to read all the comments (at work).
The GT86 certainly looks fun and very chuckable. But I'm wondering how much of that fun is because of the prius spec tyres I've read these things come with? How will the fun be maintained after putting a decent set of rubber on?
The GT86 certainly looks fun and very chuckable. But I'm wondering how much of that fun is because of the prius spec tyres I've read these things come with? How will the fun be maintained after putting a decent set of rubber on?
I drove the GT86 and the cayman (a new GT86 and a 20k mile cayman S) and I know what I would choose.
Simply put- the GT86 is indeed great to drive. Maybe 2-3 years down the line, when depreciation takes its toll (and it will, no matter what warranty it comes with), then it's an interesting proposal.
At the moment, for the build quality,(especially interior, which is just tacky in the GT86), the sound and the overall appeal, I'd buy a Cayman. The running costs on a Porker will be a bit higher, but not astronomical by any means. It's overengineered and unless you shred a lot of tyres which are one of the most expensive bits, you're better off. And chicks dig porkers. No question about it.
Simply put- the GT86 is indeed great to drive. Maybe 2-3 years down the line, when depreciation takes its toll (and it will, no matter what warranty it comes with), then it's an interesting proposal.
At the moment, for the build quality,(especially interior, which is just tacky in the GT86), the sound and the overall appeal, I'd buy a Cayman. The running costs on a Porker will be a bit higher, but not astronomical by any means. It's overengineered and unless you shred a lot of tyres which are one of the most expensive bits, you're better off. And chicks dig porkers. No question about it.
robinandcamera said:
The GT86 certainly looks fun and very chuckable. But I'm wondering how much of that fun is because of the prius spec tyres I've read these things come with? How will the fun be maintained after putting a decent set of rubber on?
The "Prius spec tyres" that it comes with are Michilen Primacy HPs. Hardly a poor tyre. CJP80 said:
Rawwr said:
Yes, because I have a massive willy. Why are people so worried about being overtaken? You're letting someone past who wants to travel quicker, you're not being raped by a gang of foreign sailors!
Ok, forget my road example. Would you say the same on a bring your own track day?If yes, then I bow down and worship you almighty Phallus man!
I do trackdays in my 112bhp MX5 and my 145bhp MKII Golf GTI and I do them with a Porsche Owners club. Now funnily enough on these days I am in the bottom 10% speedwise and get over taken all day, do I mind? Of course not, I'm still grinning from ear to ear as I explore the limits of my car and my skill.
You sir clearly have some manlyness issues.
Nick
Edited by HorneyMX5 on Thursday 16th August 09:34
TameRacingDriver said:
I had my doubts about the GT86, but actually I thought it looked great fun on this video. I can see the appeal. Looks good, great driving position, enough power, mobile, balanced chassis, good fuel economy, probably bullet proof reliability, cheap to run, a good all round car. The only problem I see is the asking price. I think at £20K it would have been an utter bargain; at £28K, it is pitched against faster rivals (not necessarily more fun), but in these days of pub bragging rights, this is a problem.
It's 25k. £28k buys you bling seats, sat-nav and metallic paint. The people who find all that necessary in a GT86 would be unlikely to settle for the £30k 370Z - they would stick on more options that maintains the £5k price advantage that the GT86 has.
The GT86 is realistically priced in the UK against other cars, e.g. Scirocco, TT, RCZ and the myriad hot hatches.
Aside from the 370Z, I've noticed that just about the only cars that people use to say the GT86 is too expensive is the Renaultsport cars (i.e. "Clio does the same thing for £8k less", or "the Megane costs the same and is a lot faster"). Clearly the Renaults are good value cars; no-one seems to be complaining about the GT86 cost compared to other stuff like the Golf GTI, Mazda 3, VXR Vauxhalls etc, let alone diesel TTs and the like.
Edited by braddo on Thursday 16th August 09:38
Some Gump said:
... And 50% plus of ph think you have it wrong, and so like the video.
Running costs:
Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).
Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.
For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).
So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
Everyone is well aware of the savings made in buying a used car..I would never buy a new car but as I said I am not the market...what happens when you have major repairs on the Cayman?Running costs:
Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).
Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.
For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).
So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
Put quite simply the majority of GT86 buyers be tempted from Sciroccos,VRX's focus ST's Where it is offering an alternative option.
Captain obvious here but put it in that company and it shines as a drivers option... Renault now going FI on their Clio sports it's the only one offering 200bhp with N/A and rwd package....put it against a focused 50k 2 seater and it's going to struggle. You are way off on insurance prices..might only be 300 diff for you but what if your 24-25?
CJP80 said:
Ok, forget my road example. Would you say the same on a bring your own track day?
If yes, then I bow down and worship you almighty Phallus man!
On your knees, boy. The only time I ever worry about someone passing me is when I'm karting or racing. At all other times its an irrelevance. If it's not competition, it doesn't matter.If yes, then I bow down and worship you almighty Phallus man!
All these cost comparisons prove is that used cars are cheaper/better value than new cars - that's really not going to surprise anyone.I genuinely don't understand the mentality of some folks on here. I did a quick search for the current crop of coupes in the £25k range and came up with this:
Audi A5 Coupe 1.8 TFSI 1798cc 170PS £26,495
Audi TT Coupe 1.8 TFSI S line 1798cc 160PS £26,065
BMW 1 Series Coupe 118d M Sport 1995cc 143BHP £25,270
BMW 1 Series Coupe 120d ES Auto 1995cc 177BHP £25,395
BMW 1 Series Coupe 120i SE Auto 1995cc 170BHP £25,870
Peugeot RCZ GT HDi 163 1997cc 163BHP £25,395
Peugeot RCZ GT THP 200 1598cc 200BHP £25,945
Renault Megane Coupe sport 265 1998cc 265BHP £26,040
Subaru BRZ 2.0i SE Lux 1998cc 200PS £26,495
Toyota GT86 1998cc 197BHP £24,995
Volkswagen CC 1.8 TSI DSG 1798cc 160PS £25,960
Volkswagen CC 2.0 TDI BlueMotion 1968cc 140PS £25,535
Volkswagen Scirocco GT 2.0 TDI 170ps 1968cc 170PS £25,450
Volkswagen Scirocco GT 2.0 TSI 1984cc 210PS £25,640
Volkswagen Scirocco R Line 2.0 TDI 170ps 1968cc 170PS £26,975
Volkswagen Scirocco R Line 2.0 TDI BlueMotion 1968cc 140PS £26,205
Volvo C30 D3 R-DESIGN Lux Geartronic 1984cc 150PS £25,650
Volvo C30 T5 R-DESIGN Lux Geartronic 2521cc 230PS £25,955
Cayman comparisons aside, if you had £25k to spend on a brand new coupe (not hatch, saloon or roadster) then this is what you have available.
For some reason there's a lot of, "but 200bhp is naff all" but this is a tad misplaced when the majority of £25k coupes have less. Only the VW and Volvo have more but these are blown and I doubt either will offer the same thrills, RWD or tactility. Perhaps the Megane would but I'm not so sure.
Audi A5 Coupe 1.8 TFSI 1798cc 170PS £26,495
Audi TT Coupe 1.8 TFSI S line 1798cc 160PS £26,065
BMW 1 Series Coupe 118d M Sport 1995cc 143BHP £25,270
BMW 1 Series Coupe 120d ES Auto 1995cc 177BHP £25,395
BMW 1 Series Coupe 120i SE Auto 1995cc 170BHP £25,870
Peugeot RCZ GT HDi 163 1997cc 163BHP £25,395
Peugeot RCZ GT THP 200 1598cc 200BHP £25,945
Renault Megane Coupe sport 265 1998cc 265BHP £26,040
Subaru BRZ 2.0i SE Lux 1998cc 200PS £26,495
Toyota GT86 1998cc 197BHP £24,995
Volkswagen CC 1.8 TSI DSG 1798cc 160PS £25,960
Volkswagen CC 2.0 TDI BlueMotion 1968cc 140PS £25,535
Volkswagen Scirocco GT 2.0 TDI 170ps 1968cc 170PS £25,450
Volkswagen Scirocco GT 2.0 TSI 1984cc 210PS £25,640
Volkswagen Scirocco R Line 2.0 TDI 170ps 1968cc 170PS £26,975
Volkswagen Scirocco R Line 2.0 TDI BlueMotion 1968cc 140PS £26,205
Volvo C30 D3 R-DESIGN Lux Geartronic 1984cc 150PS £25,650
Volvo C30 T5 R-DESIGN Lux Geartronic 2521cc 230PS £25,955
Cayman comparisons aside, if you had £25k to spend on a brand new coupe (not hatch, saloon or roadster) then this is what you have available.
For some reason there's a lot of, "but 200bhp is naff all" but this is a tad misplaced when the majority of £25k coupes have less. Only the VW and Volvo have more but these are blown and I doubt either will offer the same thrills, RWD or tactility. Perhaps the Megane would but I'm not so sure.
CJP80 said:
I've no issues whatsoever. I'm trying to make the point that people who buy this car have more than just driver feedback/involvement on the agenda, or they'd buy an Exige or Elise. Stop fixating on my misconstrued overtaking example.
Some people in the market for this type of car want more straight line performance, no-one is denying that. There are plenty of cars for them to buy that offer it.Some people in the market for this type of car don't want more straight line performance.
Everyone's requirements are different. For me this isn't a competitor to either the Boxster or the 370Z for pretty much the reasons that you state - I'd rather have any Elise than any of them if I could get away with a two-seater. It's a car I'd only consider if I needed space for a baby seat in the back and that would put it up against things like the 911 on my shopping list. For me, not giving a damn about straight line speed, the 911 seems to cost an awful lot more than this for very little gain, so this looks like an absolute bargain.
Each to their own, but to me the GT86 looks the best value 2+2 on the (new) market at the moment.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 16th August 09:50
Can we have a poll to see the percentage of people out there that would consider this car with its current power, 250PS and then 300PS? It would really interest me to see whether the engine power shifts peoples attitudes as much as I think it would.
EDIT: I'm not a power freak either. I much preferred the Cayman S to my current e92 M3.
EDIT: I'm not a power freak either. I much preferred the Cayman S to my current e92 M3.
Edited by CJP80 on Thursday 16th August 09:59
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