RE: The £70K M3 CSL: Spotted

[s m]

Mike Rainbird said:

You're absolutely right and I won't deny it, as a purely road car proposition, the CSL doesn't really cut it. However, I personally bought mine purely because I wanted a car that could do track-days and 'ring trips in comfort and reliability. I very rarely use it for mundane journeys, as it makes no sense to do so . Mine is a fully optioned car, but I have brought it back into line with the "base model" with the Supersprint "light-weight race" system (with sports cats) and APs (alloy calipers) all round (2-piece disc with alloy bell at the front).

.

What are your corner weights in ready to go trim now Mike?

[Rick H]

CorvetteConvert said:

I owned a mint CSL E46 and it is one of the world's most over-rated cars. Like people have said, the 1385 kgs dry weight is only with no options. Most have ICE and air-con so 1425 kgs is much more realistic. Mine had those options and was not a particularly quick car unless you could keep the thing over 6,000 rpm the whole time. In real world driving asking for performance quickly was often difficult as the rubbish gearbox was too slow to react and on-paper slower cars would often get away. As a road car i did not rate it, although i did manage an 8 minute 2 seconds lap of the Nurburgring in it, which is pretty decent. The brakes were poor on a £60,000 sports coupe as well, very poor. Overpriced and over-valued now for me. £40,000 for a 12 year old one? Forget it, buy the best Nissan GTR you can get for the same price and hand the CSL it's arse on a plate.

Yep, I agree with pretty much everything there - I wouldn't say it's over-rated however, I think it justifies the adulation if judged on its intended vocation i.e a fast track car with a nod of compromise for road use. 7:50 on the Ring for a 4 seat saloon is blisteringly quick even today, let alone over a decade ago. The SMG and Carbon were ground-breaking IN THEIR DAY as was early ABS in its infancy - guess what, we progress!!!! If someone is judging the CSL as a road car, and it beggars belief that people still do, then they are very misguided and yes for road use, the GT-R all day long WITHOUT QUESTION if you can stand the bills or the slightly less wallet-tingling M3/M4 or in my case, a nippy Audi. Depreciation is also an issue with all those vehicles too.

Whether it's over-priced is subjective. Is a GTO worth £30m or a crappy Countach a half million? What about the F40 now trading close to seven figure sums? Worth is not objective, buyers buy for their own reasons and pay accordingly. You could not wrestle my CSL out of my hands for less than £45k-£50k and even then I'd need another reason to sell and no guarantees the deal would go through; I don't need the dosh right now, I know my car is fully sorted with sensible mods and I trust it.

[iiNNeX]

Silly price for this... Imagine what you could do to a normal M3, which you can pick up for around £12k or so for a good condition one.

Only for collectors and purists I guess :/

[MattCSLnut]

Leins said:

Great pic. I'm not sure the CSL's S54 is even the best engine there

You're such a shameless BMW funboy Jeff

[MattCSLnut]

MattCSLnut said:

Leins said:

Great pic. I'm not sure the CSL's S54 is even the best engine there

You're such a shameless BMW fanboy Jeff

[e21Mark]

MattCSLnut said:

Leins said:

Great pic. I'm not sure the CSL's S54 is even the best engine there

You're such a shameless BMW funboy Jeff

Best 6 pot and I could possibly agree. I'm partial to a 4 myself though.

[Mike Rainbird]

s m said:

What are your corner weights in ready to go trim now Mike?

I haven't had it on the corner weight scales yet, purely as I haven't felt it necessary to change anything. When I first got it, I had the full KDS done to the most aggressive settings that the CSL can go to (after the previous owner had only just put it back to road settings a few months prior to me buying the car LOL), with the ride-height also set to what Simpsons recommended for the "Cup" cars.

In that format it has been perfect for my style of driving. I've never driven a standard suspended car, but by all accounts the H&R coilover arrangement that I have is better than the OE dampers (according to other CSL owners who have been in my car), as well as providing better roll control.

I keep toying with the idea of KW V3 Clubsports (which come with adjustable top mounts that allow an extra degree of negative camber), but the car is so sweet handling at the moment (with only the diff needing a bit more of an aggressive lock-up and maybe slightly shorter gearing to pep the acceleration up a bit), that I am loathe to change anything until something warrants doing so.

Ideally I'd like 40bhp more and then it would be simply perfect. But getting 40bhp out of this engine would cost more than I want to spend and would void the factory warranty, so I have to live with more powerful cars pulling away on the straights .

[s m]

Mike Rainbird said:

In that format it has been perfect for my style of driving. I've never driven a standard suspended car, but by all accounts the H&R coilover arrangement that I have is better than the OE dampers

Ideally I'd like 40bhp more and then it would be simply perfect. But getting 40bhp out of this engine would cost more than I want to spend and would void the factory warranty, so I have to live with more powerful cars pulling away on the straights .

Yeah, it's springs and roundabouts really.....

Sounds like it's good fun on the bends already

[Rick H]

Something else I'll add, and its to the dissenters discussing the current price of a CSL, lets say it IS over priced by £10k just for example so I have a budget of £35,000 for a car.

What are my options?

I don't want a boring car, I want something visceral.

I get on with my neighbours and I'd like to keep it that way.

I track my car and when I do, I take family and/or friends or a second set of wheels.

I'm a good enough driver to lap the Ring in sub-8 minutes (pure fantasy I can assure you).

I drive my car "enthusiastically" in the Welsh countryside again with family and/or friends.

I have garage space for one car but no room for a trailer.

I am financially savvy, so I want limited depreciation, cheap road tax and 20-25 mpg.

I like to attend shows across the UK and display my car.

What are the options if I sell my CSL for £35k today?

Edited by Rick H on Thursday 9th July 10:58

Edited by Rick H on Thursday 9th July 11:00

[GregorFuk]

Late evening thrash,



Track day



Boot big enough to accommodate Le Mans Camping gear.



They take a child seat no problem and the front buckets are great for keeping takeaways upright on the way home.

What more could you want? Pointless bubble wrapping them.

[Leins]

MattCSLnut said:

Leins said:

Great pic. I'm not sure the CSL's S54 is even the best engine there

You're such a shameless BMW funboy Jeff

Only because I can't afford lots of fancy Pork though Matt

[Dr JonboyG]

matt21 said:

Yes they have made money, and sure they will continue to do so but they feel special. The whole ownership experience feels special. From the rarity, the noise, the carbon fibre, the stance. It ticks so many boxes. It is nothing like a standard M3 or even CS.

if the inflation-adjusted purchase price was £82k, and this one is going for £70k, then how have they made money? It's still depreciated.

[Rick H]

Dr JonboyG said:

if the inflation-adjusted purchase price was £82k, and this one is going for £70k, then how have they made money? It's still depreciated.

Depends on second-hand purchase price. Buy low, sell high.

[Mermaid]

The 911 GT3 & the new GT4 are good alternatives to the mighty CSL. Any others?

[Mike Rainbird]

Rick H said:

Something else I'll add, and its to the dissenters discussing the current price of a CSL, lets say it IS over priced by £10k just for example so I have a budget of £35,000 for a car.

What are my options?

I don't want a boring car, I want something visceral.

I get on with my neighbours and I'd like to keep it that way.

I track my car and when I do, I take family and/or friends or a second set of wheels.

I'm a good enough driver to lap the Ring in sub-8 minutes (pure fantasy I can assure you).

I drive my car "enthusiastically" in the Welsh countryside again with family and/or friends.

I have garage space for one car but no room for a trailer.

I am financially savvy, so I want limited depreciation, cheap road tax and 20-25 mpg.

I like to attend shows across the UK and display my car.

What are the options if I sell my CSL for £35k today?

Edited by Rick H on Thursday 9th July 10:58

Edited by Rick H on Thursday 9th July 11:00

There is nothing else that fits the bill....

[Chapppers]

iiNNeX said:

Silly price for this... Imagine what you could do to a normal M3, which you can pick up for around £12k or so for a good condition one.

Only for collectors and purists I guess :/

It's good that so many people still don't understand depreciation, I guess that's why new cars still get sold.

Please do go ahead and spunk £58k on a £12k M3, it would be fun to watch.

ETA: Yes I know it's a gamble on it being worth that in the future but it's a hell of a lot more likely than being able to sell £58k worth of modifications again...

[161BMW]

All this CSL talk

I am not shy in admitting I would love to have one alongside my 36k mileage Manual CS
And my E30 325i Sport which I take to DWYB practise days

Nice collection that would be.

[Rick H]

Mike Rainbird said:

There is nothing else that fits the bill....

£40k?

[Mike Rainbird]

Mermaid said:

The 911 GT3 & the new GT4 are good alternatives to the mighty CSL. Any others?

Yep, the 991 GT3 RS is all the car I could ever want. If I could afford one, I would have it in a heartbeat over ANYTHING else. For me it is the [Jeremy Clarkson mode]the best car in the woooooorrld[/Jeremy Clarkson mode].

[Mike Rainbird]

Rick H said:

£40k?

Nope, still nothing LOL. In fact, unless you remove the remit of four seats, you're going to struggle at almost any cost...

Closest is a GT4, but that will cost you £75k for a decent spec one and still be down on seat space. Plus you will be waiting a LONG while for one (by which time, your CSL could be worth the £75k ).