Has modern supercar ownership become NAFF and irrelevant?
Discussion
Leins said:
simonr100 said:
gforceg said:
simonr100 said:
For me I love supercars, I added a McLaren 12C Spider to my garage last month and couldn't be happier - watching the garage door open and seeing the beautiful lines is akin to seeing a beautiful woman remove her top.
Love the car don't hate the roads.
The Crack Fox said:
It just didn't live up to expectations. Owner says the same thing but as it's worth so much he keeps it under lock and key and hardly drives it. Consider the huge price of the thing, then it has the godawful semi-auto f1 gearbox, LOOK-AT-ME paint colour, convertible roof so everyone stares at you and the thing loses it's rigidity (not that you'd be slinging it around anyway with that 'orrible gearchange), it feels too wide for the road, the interior is, in many places, plasticy, trim is wonky (and this car is pristine with very low miles), and although it makes a nice sound it doesn't feel that fast. It is very, very showy. This is a special edition, and gets this plaque in the cabin. Look at it. Does that look special to you?
I've never driven one, but '0-60 in 4.6 seconds, 375BHP and 183MPH Vmax' is still pretty decent, especially with a great sounding N/A engine providing the figures. You have to remember Ferrari are a low volume manufacturer and the development budget for a late '90's Golf was somewhere around 7x what Ferrari had for the 355. The engine and the suspension are the key areas - the rest is finished off after few bottles of wine.
What car of similar ilk from ~20 years ago do you suggest is a better option?
The other thing worth bearing in mind with the 355 was the hideous driving position. I can't add any more to the discussion by describing what they're like to drive and own, because when I was thinking of buying one the driving position was so bad I didn't even bother with the test drive. Think Renault Clio: legs bent double, arms out stretched, shoulders and upper back tensed forwards to try and reach the wheel.
In answer to the question of a credible alternative, the NSX was one of the most highly regarded, although of course they're not as fast as the 355, they lack the fantastic high revving 5 valve per cylinder V8 and the criticisms about the interior not feeling special enough and high quality enough are even more relevant in the Honda than in the Ferrari.
In answer to the question of a credible alternative, the NSX was one of the most highly regarded, although of course they're not as fast as the 355, they lack the fantastic high revving 5 valve per cylinder V8 and the criticisms about the interior not feeling special enough and high quality enough are even more relevant in the Honda than in the Ferrari.
The Crack Fox said:
phib said:
What was wrong with the 355 ?
Phib
It just didn't live up to expectations. Owner says the same thing but as it's worth so much he keeps it under lock and key and hardly drives it. Consider the huge price of the thing, then it has the godawful semi-auto f1 gearbox, LOOK-AT-ME paint colour, convertible roof so everyone stares at you and the thing loses it's rigidity (not that you'd be slinging it around anyway with that 'orrible gearchange), it feels too wide for the road, the interior is, in many places, plasticy, trim is wonky (and this car is pristine with very low miles), and although it makes a nice sound it doesn't feel that fast. It is very, very showy. This is a special edition, and gets this plaque in the cabin. Look at it. Does that look special to you?Phib
It's a yellow convertible Ferrari. Maybe with a manual box, tintop, a more modest colour and a more sensible price I'd like it. As I said in this little write up I did - "This horse doesn't prance. It minces".
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
What a thread
Keep em coming
johnwilliams77 said:
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
What a thread
Keep em coming
The OP is spot on.
Cars are too fast for the real world now, and too sanitised so that footballers and 'Biznizz' owners don't end up in a hedge with their head in the passenger seat.
The 'blinging' of supercars with horrendous pearlescent wraps and 24ct badges is just too vulgar for words.
That is indeed why classics are on the March. Fast enough for fun, not 'playstationed' for driving duffers, and a little more discreet, more refined.
I genuinely think there is a gap in the market for a manual sports car, with no driving aids, styled beautifully, offered in understated colours with a well-crafted interior. I genuinely can't think of one, except maybe a 'new classic' like an Eagle or something.
In the mainstream, Toyota tried the 'pared-back, fun on the road' concept with the GT86. Everyone moaned that even with 200bhp it was powerful enough.....
Cars are too fast for the real world now, and too sanitised so that footballers and 'Biznizz' owners don't end up in a hedge with their head in the passenger seat.
The 'blinging' of supercars with horrendous pearlescent wraps and 24ct badges is just too vulgar for words.
That is indeed why classics are on the March. Fast enough for fun, not 'playstationed' for driving duffers, and a little more discreet, more refined.
I genuinely think there is a gap in the market for a manual sports car, with no driving aids, styled beautifully, offered in understated colours with a well-crafted interior. I genuinely can't think of one, except maybe a 'new classic' like an Eagle or something.
In the mainstream, Toyota tried the 'pared-back, fun on the road' concept with the GT86. Everyone moaned that even with 200bhp it was powerful enough.....
johnwilliams77 said:
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
What a thread
Keep em coming
bqf said:
I genuinely think there is a gap in the market for a manual sports car, with no driving aids, styled beautifully, offered in understated colours with a well-crafted interior. I genuinely can't think of one, except maybe a 'new classic' like an Eagle or something.
This is the essence of the McLaren F1 that makes it my dream car, and I've wondered ever since the F1 was launched how much a version would cost with a 300bhp n/a V6 instead of a 600bhp+ n/a V12, and with that weight saving in the engine, whether less costly and exotic materials could be used to build it whilst maintaining the same kerb weight (and of course improving the weight distribution). The result would be a car that had a revvy and sonorous 300bhp, 1000kg, central driving position, no driver aids, impeccable quality from bespoke parts, and understated but elegant and beautiful styling. I suspect such a car would cost around £300k though, and I doubt many people would part with that sort of cash for it. I would if I had the money, but then again I'd buy a GT86 with 'only' 200bhp or an NSX with 'only' 276bhp (ish), and in the past I've put my money where my mouth is and bought plenty of cars like this instead of more powerful and faster options.I thought the point about supercars was that they were all hilariously awful? I've driven a few on track and I can only imagine how bad they'd be to try and live with, especially in London.
Was coaxing some life back into my brothers Ferrari 308 at the weekend, it's a horrible thing really, but I admire it, warts and all. Lovely sound too.
Was coaxing some life back into my brothers Ferrari 308 at the weekend, it's a horrible thing really, but I admire it, warts and all. Lovely sound too.
Interesting posts Crack. That is a shame as I've always loved the looks of the 355. Sounds like another one to be filed away in the "Never meet your heroes".
I recall our resident F1 owner Flemke really rates the Honda NSX as an ideal road car. So I'd be very interested to drive one of those. Still a bit shouty in looks, although black would tone it down. Also the badge would mark you out as a driving enthusiast, rather than an Instagram brat. So it would be more acceptable from that point of view.
I recall our resident F1 owner Flemke really rates the Honda NSX as an ideal road car. So I'd be very interested to drive one of those. Still a bit shouty in looks, although black would tone it down. Also the badge would mark you out as a driving enthusiast, rather than an Instagram brat. So it would be more acceptable from that point of view.
mwstewart said:
johnwilliams77 said:
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
What a thread
Keep em coming
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
They were six figure cars when new (or equivalent) because they were worth it for their spec and design and rarity at the time. They are now 6 figure cars (or more!) because of their history and their provenance. They don't fully stack up against modern day equivalent (I'd guess a really good 17 year old 360CS is more expensive than a brand new McLaren 570S but the McLaren will probably out perform it, has a much more modern feel, is far easier to run, has a far better quality feel and a far better build quality. Id guess a 'run of the mill' Ferrari model like the 355, some 25+ years old, would be dynamically well out of its depth against the current model line up. Lets face it, from the figures alone it would struggle against a £35k modern hot hatch on the road. And you ain't connecting the phone via Bluetooth unless you get down to Halfords first.
Nostalgia and provenance has a high price...
bqf said:
I genuinely think there is a gap in the market for a manual sports car, with no driving aids, styled beautifully, offered in understated colours with a well-crafted interior. I genuinely can't think of one, except maybe a 'new classic' like an Eagle or something.
Ultima in a sensible colour via somebody who knows how to upholster a car to a high standard? Or is the Ultima not pretty enough? Noble M600?SilverSpur said:
The Moose said:
I must say, this is something I've felt about Rarris for a while - the things just don't feel quality. I haven't driven a 488 yet but the 458, 430 etc all sounded awesome but just didn't feel like a quality product. In honesty, I'd have felt a bit silly getting into those cars having spent a small 6 figure sum to buy.
They were six figure cars when new (or equivalent) because they were worth it for their spec and design and rarity at the time. They are now 6 figure cars (or more!) because of their history and their provenance. They don't fully stack up against modern day equivalent (I'd guess a really good 17 year old 360CS is more expensive than a brand new McLaren 570S but the McLaren will probably out perform it, has a much more modern feel, is far easier to run, has a far better quality feel and a far better build quality. Id guess a 'run of the mill' Ferrari model like the 355, some 25+ years old, would be dynamically well out of its depth against the current model line up. Lets face it, from the figures alone it would struggle against a £35k modern hot hatch on the road. And you ain't connecting the phone via Bluetooth unless you get down to Halfords first.
Nostalgia and provenance has a high price...
RobM77 said:
his is the essence of the McLaren F1 that makes it my dream car, and I've wondered ever since the F1 was launched how much a version would cost with a 300bhp n/a V6 instead of a 600bhp+ n/a V12, and with that weight saving in the engine, whether less costly and exotic materials could be used to build it whilst maintaining the same kerb weight (and of course improving the weight distribution). The result would be a car that had a revvy and sonorous 300bhp, 1000kg, central driving position, no driver aids, impeccable quality from bespoke parts, and understated but elegant and beautiful styling. I suspect such a car would cost around £300k though, and I doubt many people would part with that sort of cash for it. I would if I had the money, but then again I'd buy a GT86 with 'only' 200bhp or an NSX with 'only' 276bhp (ish), and in the past I've put my money where my mouth is and bought plenty of cars like this instead of more powerful and faster options.
NSX was disappointing IMO. GT86 is good fun but needs a bit more power.
Not wishing to be that negative and I can totally understand where you are coming from.
Ignore the colour but a LHD F1 spider in not great condition (interior shouldn’t look like in a low mileage car) will be pretty horrid to drive in comparison to say a RHD manual car in good nick. They are night and day.
I drove 22 RHD red / cream manual spiders 10 years ago when I bought mine 10 years ago and there were some right dogs then, poor suspension, old tyres etc etc !!!
Hard to know what has been refreshed or not refreshed in a 20 year old car either, which can effect the car no end.
I also have a LHD 550 that is horrid to drive in the UK (too wide etc etc) but perfect in Europe. RHD so much easier here
Met so many people who have driven (bad 355’s) and hated them. I totally understand why.
Looks like a Fiorano edition which had very different …. Jiggly suspension (for UK roads)
As for width I suspect the fact its LHD makes a big difference as they are even smaller than a newish elise
Phib
adult image
Ignore the colour but a LHD F1 spider in not great condition (interior shouldn’t look like in a low mileage car) will be pretty horrid to drive in comparison to say a RHD manual car in good nick. They are night and day.
I drove 22 RHD red / cream manual spiders 10 years ago when I bought mine 10 years ago and there were some right dogs then, poor suspension, old tyres etc etc !!!
Hard to know what has been refreshed or not refreshed in a 20 year old car either, which can effect the car no end.
I also have a LHD 550 that is horrid to drive in the UK (too wide etc etc) but perfect in Europe. RHD so much easier here
Met so many people who have driven (bad 355’s) and hated them. I totally understand why.
Looks like a Fiorano edition which had very different …. Jiggly suspension (for UK roads)
As for width I suspect the fact its LHD makes a big difference as they are even smaller than a newish elise
Phib
adult imageThe Crack Fox said:
bqf said:
I genuinely think there is a gap in the market for a manual sports car, with no driving aids, styled beautifully, offered in understated colours with a well-crafted interior.
Frontline MGB. I am not a fan of the original MGB, but this is in a different league, inside and out and on the road. 
The Moose said:
Of course, I don't disagree with some of what you're saying but the vehicles I am thinking about in particular were within 6 months of being new when I drove those vehicles. At the time that I was driving them, I did feel exactly that - if I'd spent that sort of my money on one of those cars then I'd feel a bit of a mug!
understood.I suspect supercars are a little bit irrelevant but I'm not sure I'd consider them naff in my own opinion.
If you derive pleasure for a car be it a £200k super car of a £2k hot hatch it's relevant to you but maybe the supercar is a little less for day to day use.
Let's face it though, cars in general have got fast to the point of ridiculous in some respect. You have hatch backs that hit 60 in under 5 seconds and can top out at crazy speeds. Also cars that make 400bhp+ are within the reach of us mere mortals now so the opportunity to drive silly fast is there even for the non-supercar owners.
I say, enjoy what you can afford. From high powered German machines, modestly powered hot hatches or crazy hyper cars. Have fun and don't give a sh!t.
If you derive pleasure for a car be it a £200k super car of a £2k hot hatch it's relevant to you but maybe the supercar is a little less for day to day use.
Let's face it though, cars in general have got fast to the point of ridiculous in some respect. You have hatch backs that hit 60 in under 5 seconds and can top out at crazy speeds. Also cars that make 400bhp+ are within the reach of us mere mortals now so the opportunity to drive silly fast is there even for the non-supercar owners.
I say, enjoy what you can afford. From high powered German machines, modestly powered hot hatches or crazy hyper cars. Have fun and don't give a sh!t.
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