RE: Behold the new Toyota Supra!
Discussion
For the money I wish it would have a bespoke power plant at the very least, like the Fiat 124 does despite everything else pretty much being Mazda MX-5 on that car.
Anyway, in the grey or white it might look okay. Change the wheels for more attractive Rays, Volks, Advans or something along those lines, lower it a little bit, and replace that terrible steering wheel with something more attractive and it might start to look decent.
Anyway, in the grey or white it might look okay. Change the wheels for more attractive Rays, Volks, Advans or something along those lines, lower it a little bit, and replace that terrible steering wheel with something more attractive and it might start to look decent.
Having now had a good look at the car from most angles I am left thinking its one of those things that has been 'over styled' for the sake of 'style'.
I think they've tried to hide the fact that the aspect ratio in terms of height and width is very 'haridresser'-esque. And they've done this by adding in exaggerated curves, cuttings and angles.
The rear of the car seems to be 'cut short' and the permanent boot spoiler makes it look a bit wierd in how it again makes the car look too tall for its width.
One thing I hate about modern shabby designs are fake elements that are added for nothing more than 'look at me'. This car seems to have two of those, the first is within the front grill, whereby there are plastic panels seemingly serving no purpose other than to add air resistance. And the second is a fake bonnet vent.
I have no qualms with the engine and power figures, but the lack of a manual gearbox is a huge blocker for many.
The interior is very bland, lacks the driver focussed cabin that the MkIV had basically looks like a BMW; nothing special at all within the price range.
The 'floating' infotainment screen, as with all cars that use them, is hideous. An integrated unit always looks better.
Anyways, having said all that I'm sure there will be some (Shmee150 and the like), who will buy it, because you know - its fashion.
Although I am left wondering what a missed opportunity the MkV may become if only Toyota went down the path of making it an evolution of the MkIV instead of re-inventing it as something else. Time will tell.
I think they've tried to hide the fact that the aspect ratio in terms of height and width is very 'haridresser'-esque. And they've done this by adding in exaggerated curves, cuttings and angles.
The rear of the car seems to be 'cut short' and the permanent boot spoiler makes it look a bit wierd in how it again makes the car look too tall for its width.
One thing I hate about modern shabby designs are fake elements that are added for nothing more than 'look at me'. This car seems to have two of those, the first is within the front grill, whereby there are plastic panels seemingly serving no purpose other than to add air resistance. And the second is a fake bonnet vent.
I have no qualms with the engine and power figures, but the lack of a manual gearbox is a huge blocker for many.
The interior is very bland, lacks the driver focussed cabin that the MkIV had basically looks like a BMW; nothing special at all within the price range.
The 'floating' infotainment screen, as with all cars that use them, is hideous. An integrated unit always looks better.
Anyways, having said all that I'm sure there will be some (Shmee150 and the like), who will buy it, because you know - its fashion.
Although I am left wondering what a missed opportunity the MkV may become if only Toyota went down the path of making it an evolution of the MkIV instead of re-inventing it as something else. Time will tell.
BricktopST205 said:
thatdude said:
I don't think it's very impressive in the sense that it's a BMW in disguise, it doesnt really offer anything different in that respect, and is a real let-down in terms of a new japanese sports car. way back when, you would have a Supra vs NSX vs GT-R, but this doesnt stack up t the current NSX and GT-R, least not because it's not an in-house toyota design.
This is the main problem. The Supra has gone down market. At launch the MK4 Supra was more powerful than the current 911 and Ferrari 348. Now it is just a re-bodied M235i. Does it even have a LSD?I am sure they will bring out a higher power version, failing that, B58's can be cranked up to 450 bhp for a £1000 or so, I have been ion a 450 bhp M140i and it was mental, a standard one cracks 100 mph in 9.9 secs, I was out in my 370 ish bhp one series last night and it shifts, traction is the limiting factor at this time of year, not power.
It will be pretty rapid as standard, power is getting to the point now where you wonder where you will use it, I came back through the airport tunnels at Manchester last night and my speedy sense was tingling so I trundled through at 50 to find a Police Discovery lurking between them.
We are a bit spoilt these days and have got used to years and years of incremental power increases, to the point a 340 bhp sports coupe isnt enough, the answer is that really, its plenty of power, if you can get from zero to a ban in under ten seconds then its going some.
How much would be enough ?
J4CKO said:
BricktopST205 said:
thatdude said:
I don't think it's very impressive in the sense that it's a BMW in disguise, it doesnt really offer anything different in that respect, and is a real let-down in terms of a new japanese sports car. way back when, you would have a Supra vs NSX vs GT-R, but this doesnt stack up t the current NSX and GT-R, least not because it's not an in-house toyota design.
This is the main problem. The Supra has gone down market. At launch the MK4 Supra was more powerful than the current 911 and Ferrari 348. Now it is just a re-bodied M235i. Does it even have a LSD?I am sure they will bring out a higher power version, failing that, B58's can be cranked up to 450 bhp for a £1000 or so, I have been ion a 450 bhp M140i and it was mental, a standard one cracks 100 mph in 9.9 secs, I was out in my 370 ish bhp one series last night and it shifts, traction is the limiting factor at this time of year, not power.
It will be pretty rapid as standard, power is getting to the point now where you wonder where you will use it, I came back through the airport tunnels at Manchester last night and my speedy sense was tingling so I trundled through at 50 to find a Police Discovery lurking between them.
We are a bit spoilt these days and have got used to years and years of incremental power increases, to the point a 340 bhp sports coupe isnt enough, the answer is that really, its plenty of power, if you can get from zero to a ban in under ten seconds then its going some.
How much would be enough ?
alpine is a bespoke ground up car ...and thats whats fabulous about it
this is a bmw not a bespoke jap exotica we were all hoping for
housen said:
J4CKO said:
BricktopST205 said:
thatdude said:
I don't think it's very impressive in the sense that it's a BMW in disguise, it doesnt really offer anything different in that respect, and is a real let-down in terms of a new japanese sports car. way back when, you would have a Supra vs NSX vs GT-R, but this doesnt stack up t the current NSX and GT-R, least not because it's not an in-house toyota design.
This is the main problem. The Supra has gone down market. At launch the MK4 Supra was more powerful than the current 911 and Ferrari 348. Now it is just a re-bodied M235i. Does it even have a LSD?I am sure they will bring out a higher power version, failing that, B58's can be cranked up to 450 bhp for a £1000 or so, I have been ion a 450 bhp M140i and it was mental, a standard one cracks 100 mph in 9.9 secs, I was out in my 370 ish bhp one series last night and it shifts, traction is the limiting factor at this time of year, not power.
It will be pretty rapid as standard, power is getting to the point now where you wonder where you will use it, I came back through the airport tunnels at Manchester last night and my speedy sense was tingling so I trundled through at 50 to find a Police Discovery lurking between them.
We are a bit spoilt these days and have got used to years and years of incremental power increases, to the point a 340 bhp sports coupe isnt enough, the answer is that really, its plenty of power, if you can get from zero to a ban in under ten seconds then its going some.
How much would be enough ?
alpine is a bespoke ground up car ...and thats whats fabulous about it
this is a bmw not a bespoke jap exotica we were all hoping for
Suppose the Alpine is more enthusiast biased and the Supra is more mainstream, is the Alpine selling well ?
Lots of enthusiast cars seem to arrive and then not actually sell that well ?
J4CKO said:
Yeah, fair points.
Suppose the Alpine is more enthusiast biased and the Supra is more mainstream, is the Alpine selling well ?
Lots of enthusiast cars seem to arrive and then not actually sell that well ?
I'd be surprised if it was selling better than the Cayman to be honest!!Suppose the Alpine is more enthusiast biased and the Supra is more mainstream, is the Alpine selling well ?
Lots of enthusiast cars seem to arrive and then not actually sell that well ?
I really really like it, and think it will look good in person. Anyone that produces a sports car in this modern age of downsizing gets credit from me regardless of how they do it. Besides, we might not have too much longer to enjoy these kinds of cars.
If it was manual I'd have one. Would choose that involvement over lap times all day long.
If it was manual I'd have one. Would choose that involvement over lap times all day long.
housen said:
its not about power ...look at the alpine
alpine is a bespoke ground up car ...and thats whats fabulous about it
this is a bmw not a bespoke jap exotica we were all hoping for
If Toyota did an alpine it would have been an MR2. As someone mentioned above this is more of a Celica than a Supra. They are using the Supra badge to milk sales.alpine is a bespoke ground up car ...and thats whats fabulous about it
this is a bmw not a bespoke jap exotica we were all hoping for
cib24 said:
For the money I wish it would have a bespoke power plant at the very least, like the Fiat 124 does despite everything else pretty much being Mazda MX-5 on that car.
Anyway, in the grey or white it might look okay. Change the wheels for more attractive Rays, Volks, Advans or something along those lines, lower it a little bit, and replace that terrible steering wheel with something more attractive and it might start to look decent.
Its a grower actually really stands out from the crowd. Sure what did everyone say about the new type r that it looked hideous but did people care when they drove it nope.Anyway, in the grey or white it might look okay. Change the wheels for more attractive Rays, Volks, Advans or something along those lines, lower it a little bit, and replace that terrible steering wheel with something more attractive and it might start to look decent.
Ecosseven said:
It could be the best engineered, best handling car in it's class but most people won't get past those looks. The styling is all over the place and the front overhand is too long in my opinion.
I like the F Type but I don't love it. It's a nice clean shape but to be honest it looks quite conservative and boring next to this new Supra, which is much more edgy and aggressive looking. I can see the Supra having more appeal to the somewhat younger buyer and I like the fact that it represents something a bit different in the market compared to european offerings, in terms of look if not underlying hardware.People saying this shouldn't be called a Supra - it's a RWD 3.0L straight six turbo coupe, what else is it going to be from from Toyota's history?? A Celica was always a 4 pot and ended up mostly as FWD, nothing like this. Also, a Supra wasn't just a mk4 twin turbo manual, the lineage goes back to the '70's with various 2.0L incarnations, including the Celica Supra's.
I can see the concept has upped expectations what looks like an unrealistic degree, that looked like a £100k 911 rival, not a relatively compact sports car like this. As always the new car should be judged for what it is not on what people felt it should have been in their view. Quite suprised a how much negativity there is in the thread for what is an interesting new sports car.
MX6 said:
Ecosseven said:
It could be the best engineered, best handling car in it's class but most people won't get past those looks. The styling is all over the place and the front overhand is too long in my opinion.
I like the F Type but I don't love it. It's a nice clean shape but to be honest it looks quite conservative and boring next to this new Supra, which is much more edgy and aggressive looking. I can see the Supra having more appeal to the somewhat younger buyer and I like the fact that it represents something a bit different in the market compared to european offerings, in terms of look if not underlying hardware.People saying this shouldn't be called a Supra - it's a RWD 3.0L straight six turbo coupe, what else is it going to be from from Toyota's history?? A Celica was always a 4 pot and ended up mostly as FWD, nothing like this. Also, a Supra wasn't just a mk4 twin turbo manual, the lineage goes back to the '70's with various 2.0L incarnations, including the Celica Supra's.
I can see the concept has upped expectations what looks like an unrealistic degree, that looked like a £100k 911 rival, not a relatively compact sports car like this. As always the new car should be judged for what it is not on what people felt it should have been in their view. Quite suprised a how much negativity there is in the thread for what is an interesting new sports car.
oki i quite like the new bmw z4
housen said:
GT3-RS said:
not only hideous from every angle as mentioned but it doesn't even have a Toyota engine??? if you ask me it smacks of the EU saying to the rest of the world if you want to sell your cars in Europe they'll have to have an EU Built (read German) Engine which complies with our rules that we made to safeguard our jobs.......another boring globalist car made for the boring mindless globalist consumer.....and for that reason "um oot"
sums up alot of things in the world right now this observation Instead, in the real world - car's are becoming increasingly enormously complicated objects in order to meet the expectations of customers that need more Things, and more differentiation from a new model to old, in order to justify regularly changing cars which keeps the industry going. And we have build quality standards that demand near perfection (not wrongly, just what we do - look at the form rep for anything JLR). That means to build a new platform it takes literally billions to do, and you see more collaborations like these because the cost to do this is so high, you need to either guarantee massive sales or spread those costs to make ze numbers work. Alpine is one of the only true standalone new sports cars (although Caterham had a bit of involvement); but the thing is so simple and light it likely doesn't need the same level of R&D as something designed to compete against a Porsche....
As a result - whilst the concept looked great, the fact it's Z4 based means it can't escape the Z4 proportions. It looks fugly because someone tried to put a good design concept onto the wrongly sized platform. Shame. Power is for magazines and forums, but in a world where even a cooking AMG saloon can put out 350hp+ i wonder if buyers of sports cars are less hung up on such things - the fact we're seeing more unashamedly low power expensive cars (A110; 4C... MX5 and GT86 still sell at the lower end of the range); maybe the industry hoping the 335bhp thing doesn't matter. Wouldn't matter to me - the fact it looks ****ing ugly would!
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