RE: Alpine A110S vs. Porsche 718 GT4 vs. Audi R8 RWS

[rick.e]

Miserablegit said:

There are a few Porsche fan boys who cannot accept that some people prefer to have an Alpine to a Porsche or alongside a Porsche.......

..... Or even seem to get upset that so many motoring correspondents consider an Alpine as a potential competitor to a much more expensive Porsche.

[DoubleD]

Miserablegit said:

DoubleD said:

A few can see that both Porsche and Alpine have good and bad things about them.

But there seems to be some on here who think that either the Porsche/Alpine can do no wrong, everything about it is amazing, but everything about the other brand is rubbish.

No 1 car is perfect.

The Alpine owners seem reasonable in their responses as most have owned or driven a Cayman in the past and so don’t have an axe to grind.
There are a few Porsche fan boys who cannot accept that some people prefer to have an Alpine to a Porsche or alongside a Porsche and then there are the hard of thinking like Timo and Simonbamg who seem very bitter individuals and remind me of the odd kids at school who would shout random things to get a response.

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

[bcr5784]

Oz83 said:

On a left hand drive car it's tucked away where you can't even see it. Finding it is the biggest problem :-)

I think some of the complaints about the ergonomics are due to using the same controls on left and right hand drive cars. In a fairly tight cabin with restricted movement, reaching that extra 15cm for something can make the difference, especially if you are wearing harnesses.

That not really the substance of my beef. It's really the plethora of switches in front of the gear lever to control the heating/climate/seat heating - none of which are identifiable by touch, some of which you have to reach round the gear lever/selector to reach. Frankly, athough rotary dials for the heating may look old-fashioned they are much easier to use, quite often by touch alone. On top of that you have more push buttons for sports exhaust, sport, PASM etc way out of sight were you have to turn your head 90 degrees to see them.

All that said I could make ergonomic criticisms of most, if not all, cars. The Alpine switchgear is far from perfect - but just a lot better than the Porsche's ergonomically if not aesthetically. I frankly can't understand why people make a fuss about using Renault switch gear. Why waste money on developing something unique - I much prefer the budget being spent on the cars dynamics. Just another case of badge snobbery I'm afraid.

[nickfrog]

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

I have no skin in the game but I have found the Alpine owners rational and reasonable but the couple of weirdos (to be polite) utterly irrational in their "assessment".

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 12th February 12:27

[DoubleD]

nickfrog said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

Speak for yourself. I have no skin in the game but I have found the Alpine owners rational and reasonable but the couple of weirdos (to be polite) utterly irrational in their "assessment".

I agree that their have been some odd comments about these cars. But I stand by what I said.

[Prestonese]

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

[DoubleD]

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

I have no idea what you are on about?

[blueg33]

nickfrog said:

TimoMak said:

Better the button than the whole car...

When the Alpine society start talking about switch-gear it's clear the battle is lost....

• Indicator/wiper stalks, these you will find in a Clio and Captur.
• Stereo remote to the right of the steering column.
• Electronic parking brake switch and cruise control switch set up; Kadjar, Koleos, Megane and Scenic.
• Electric mirror switch, Kadjar, Koleos and the odd Nissan.

Oh dear indeed...

.

Why are you so bitter?

Because he drives a Nissan - I bet it has switch gear from a micra........

[Prestonese]

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

I have no idea what you are on about?

You wouldn't as you're another one who ignores constructive dialogue on here.

[Prestonese]

blueg33 said:

nickfrog said:

TimoMak said:

Better the button than the whole car...

When the Alpine society start talking about switch-gear it's clear the battle is lost....

• Indicator/wiper stalks, these you will find in a Clio and Captur.
• Stereo remote to the right of the steering column.
• Electronic parking brake switch and cruise control switch set up; Kadjar, Koleos, Megane and Scenic.
• Electric mirror switch, Kadjar, Koleos and the odd Nissan.

Oh dear indeed...

.

Why are you so bitter?

Because he drives a Nissan - I bet it has switch gear from a micra........

You mean he drives a Renault 350Z?

[nickfrog]

Prestonese said:

You mean he drives a Renault 350Z?

A bit harsh. I drove a 350Z on track back in around 2002 or 2003 as we had them at Bedford.

It was quite good fun in the wet. It wasn't a good car but entertaining for a couple of laps. Quite a chasm between it and the cheapest car here of course.

[blueg33]

Prestonese said:

blueg33 said:

nickfrog said:

TimoMak said:

Better the button than the whole car...

When the Alpine society start talking about switch-gear it's clear the battle is lost....

• Indicator/wiper stalks, these you will find in a Clio and Captur.
• Stereo remote to the right of the steering column.
• Electronic parking brake switch and cruise control switch set up; Kadjar, Koleos, Megane and Scenic.
• Electric mirror switch, Kadjar, Koleos and the odd Nissan.

Oh dear indeed...

.

Why are you so bitter?

Because he drives a Nissan - I bet it has switch gear from a micra........

You mean he drives a Renault 350Z?

The irony would be complete if it has Renault switch gear, but I am pretty sure the 350z pre-dates Renault's commercial interest in Nissan

[DoubleD]

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

I have no idea what you are on about?

You wouldn't as you're another one who ignores constructive dialogue on here.

Still no idea what you are on about.

[nickfrog]

blueg33 said:

The irony would be complete if it has Renault switch gear, but I am pretty sure the 350z pre-dates Renault's commercial interest in Nissan

I don't think it does but it didn't use any parts sharing as I guess it was designed and tooled before the Alliance was formed. Shame as the Renault switchgear is pretty good, particularly the audio control at the wheel, as someone pointed out.

[SidewaysSi]

blueg33 said:

Prestonese said:

blueg33 said:

nickfrog said:

TimoMak said:

Better the button than the whole car...

When the Alpine society start talking about switch-gear it's clear the battle is lost....

• Indicator/wiper stalks, these you will find in a Clio and Captur.
• Stereo remote to the right of the steering column.
• Electronic parking brake switch and cruise control switch set up; Kadjar, Koleos, Megane and Scenic.
• Electric mirror switch, Kadjar, Koleos and the odd Nissan.

Oh dear indeed...

.

Why are you so bitter?

Because he drives a Nissan - I bet it has switch gear from a micra........

You mean he drives a Renault 350Z?

The irony would be complete if it has Renault switch gear, but I am pretty sure the 350z pre-dates Renault's commercial interest in Nissan

A lardy old Nissan and he thinks he is a driving God. I pity the fool.

[boxsey]

bcr5784 said:

That not really the substance of my beef. It's really the plethora of switches in front of the gear lever to control the heating/climate/seat heating - none of which are identifiable by touch, some of which you have to reach round the gear lever/selector to reach. Frankly, athough rotary dials for the heating may look old-fashioned they are much easier to use, quite often by touch alone. On top of that you have more push buttons for sports exhaust, sport, PASM etc way out of sight were you have to turn your head 90 degrees to see them.

All that said I could make ergonomic criticisms of most, if not all, cars. The Alpine switchgear is far from perfect - but just a lot better than the Porsche's ergonomically if not aesthetically. I frankly can't understand why people make a fuss about using Renault switch gear. Why waste money on developing something unique - I much prefer the budget being spent on the cars dynamics. Just another case of badge snobbery I'm afraid.

I too was a little confused when you mentioned that you thought that the ergonomics of the Cayman were poor. I interpreted this as the driving position which from personal experience (GT4 and R) I doubt could be bettered in any sports car. It's just about perfect IMO. However, after realizing you meant switch gear, I have to agree that it's a little clumsy. The 'hand' brake position in particular appears to be an after thought. And to find the switches that I've forgotten to activate before setting out on track (doh!) are almost impossible to find by feel. So I find it's best not to bother with them once on the move because having to look for them could risk an unwanted encounter with the scenery!

[Prestonese]

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

I have no idea what you are on about?

You wouldn't as you're another one who ignores constructive dialogue on here.

Still no idea what you are on about.

Not surprised by that at all

[Hungrymc]

DoubleD said:

nickfrog said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

Speak for yourself. I have no skin in the game but I have found the Alpine owners rational and reasonable but the couple of weirdos (to be polite) utterly irrational in their "assessment".

I agree that their have been some odd comments about these cars. But I stand by what I said.

Its been an eye opening thread to see just how partisan people can be (normally reserved for PCP and SUV threads). Point blank refusal to acknowledge that people will have different preferences (and cars are off course designed and targeted at different types of users).

I'm sure in the cold light of day, most of us are pleased that we have choices like the Cayman, and the Alpine, and Elise / Exige etc. And see merit in all of them. I've no idea why it has to become a p***ing contest over which is "right" and which is "wrong".

[anonymous-user]

Hungrymc said:

most of us are pleased that we have choices like the Cayman, and the Alpine, and Elise / Exige etc.

Absolutely right. I've long been a fan of mid-engine cars, everything from MR2 to McLaren stands out as "different" from the conventional, front engine car layout. As soon as I drove my first mid-engine car I was impressed by the feel of an agile chassis and how well a mid-engine car can turn. The cars in this thread cover a considerable price spread, showing that supercar layout doesn't have to mean supercar price. Long may it continue! At the end of day it takes more than sticking the engine in the middle to make a car appeal to real world customers - as Alfa Romeo, Ginetta and Spyker have discovered. It will be interesting to see to see what next year's Corvette C8 brings to the party.

[Hungrymc]

bcr5784 said:

All that said I could make ergonomic criticisms of most, if not all, cars. The Alpine switchgear is far from perfect - but just a lot better than the Porsche's ergonomically if not aesthetically. I frankly can't understand why people make a fuss about using Renault switch gear. Why waste money on developing something unique - I much prefer the budget being spent on the cars dynamics. Just another case of badge snobbery I'm afraid.

I agree with everything you say..... Right up until you throw the badge snobbery comment in.

For context, I found the Alpine interior absolutely fine (admittedly a limited test drive). Some of the criticism I had previously read had me expecting something nasty. Its nice, certainly isn't nasty.

But then I find the Cayman interior / switch gear nice as well, I can see an argument that its higher quality in terms of material / switch action and can understand why someone would pay a premium for what they feel is higher quality. Can also see an argument that the layout is unclear (I'd rather have the physical buttons than have to dig through a menu system but there are a lot of switches).

Not sure If it would be much of a factor in my decision making either way.... Both are nice, both have merits. Not unreasonable to pick either I certainly wouldn't make a disparaging assumption about someone's motives for going either way.