RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman

[Bladedancer]

I don't think it comes as a surprise that Cayman turns out to be faster etc. generally a preferred choice.

Problem is, it's a used car for once, and you tend to forget servicing a Porsche isn't going to be as cheap as servicing a Toyota.
Also, after 2 years a low mileage GT86 might fetch 20-22k... and you'd have to compare that to Cayman.

Frankly, I don't see a point in testing used vs new.
But then again I don't see any point in buying new but that is perhaps cause I don't fancy loosing 50% of my money over 2-3 years...

[OlberJ]

I like the 944 comparison.

Wonder if Porsche will ever make a new one?

[Great Pretender]

Chris Harris said:

Dagnut said:

Are you seriously defending the use of used cars in a group test? In this group test?

Do you honestly believe people going to the Toyota forecourt are debating a used Cayman? You obviously have no idea who this car is aimed at.

I researched all forum responses to the original GT86 video, all Twitter activity and personal emails I've received. People wanted to see 370Z and used Cayman S, plain and simple.

If you think a coupe-punter with £28k to spend wouldn't look at a used Cayman, I suspect you might be in the minority.

In fact PHers can help here.

Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?

If people agree with you, I'll defer. Until that point I'm inclined to say you're talking tommy-rot.

Bit late to the party here and my budget was greater, however I didn't even consider going for a new car when I decided I'd had enough of the M5. For me, new cars represent poor value. Sure, you get the joy of breaking them in, with the knowledge that no-one has been there before you; you get the full manufacturer warranty and the peace of mind that nothing will wear out or break for a very long time. But the downside however, is the steep entry fee, rampant depreciation and the pure, simple, undeniable fact that there are 2/3/4 yr old cars out there for the same or less money, from much, much further up the exotic ladder.

The case is strengthened when you consider how far cars have come in terms of reliability. Mine, bought at 4.5 yrs old with 18k miles, has since done another 16k miles in 6 months and hasn't put a foot wrong. Sure, I replaced the boots and at some point the pads might need a refresh, but I cannot put forward a valid argument for owning a new car when there are so few disadvantages to owning a slightly older car, still covered by a dealer warranty etc.

As a company car, then yes, used cars are generally off the menu, but as a private punter...?

So for me, the decision was: new, well specced 370Z, or 4yr old, low mileage OPC 997 C2S?

Mmmm

It's a no-brainer.

Edited by Great Pretender on Thursday 16th August 10:04

[Bladedancer]

CJP80 said:

Can we have a poll to see the percentage of people out there that would consider this car with its current power, 250PS and then 300PS? It would really interest me to see whether the engine power shifts peoples attitudes as much as I think it would.

BRZ STI version would be most welcome, with about 280bhp.

[kambites]

CJP80 said:

Can we have a poll to see the percentage of people out there that would consider this car with its current power, 250PS and then 300PS? It would really interest me to see whether the engine power shifts peoples attitudes as much as I think it would.

Sure, I'll stick one up.

[Rawwr]

CJP80 said:

Can we have a poll to see the percentage of people out there that would consider this car with its current power, 250PS and then 300PS? It would really interest me to see whether the engine power shifts peoples attitudes as much as I think it would.

Why not ask about 400PS, 800PS or 1200PS? It's a meaningless number unless you say how you're going to get that extra power and state the possible detrimental implications of the options.

Don't confuse popular opinion with being the correct choice. Millions of people tune in to watch The X-Factor and Britain's Got Talent but that's not really an indication that those shows are the peak of 21st century culture.

[gofasterrosssco]

CJP80 said:

Can we have a poll to see the percentage of people out there that would consider this car with its current power, 250PS and then 300PS? It would really interest me to see whether the engine power shifts peoples attitudes as much as I think it would.

Yeah, but that'd be a bit of skewed poll, as the additional power would come at the expense of other things, including additional weight, chassis balance, grip, servicing requirements etc. not including additional purchase and running costs. So it wouldn't really be 'this' car, but a different version..

I'm sure if there were no compromises, most people would tick the extra power box, but in reality there are, many..

[CJP80]

gofasterrosssco said:

Yeah, but that'd be a bit of skewed poll, as the additional power would come at the expense of other things, including additional weight, chassis balance, grip, servicing requirements etc. not including additional purchase and running costs. So it wouldn't really be 'this' car, but a different version..

I'm sure if there were no compromises, most people would tick the extra power box, but in reality there are, many..

I guess the question is, could have toyoru given us more power, a higher redline and kept the price the same? I don't see why not.

Edited by CJP80 on Thursday 16th August 10:19

[kambites]

I've put one up; hopefully the wording is reasonably unbiased (it's rather hard to tell with your own poll).

I've included how the power is developed too, since I think that will be very important to potential buyers.

[CJP80]

kambites said:

I've put one up; hopefully the wording is reasonably unbiased (it's rather hard to tell with your own poll).

I've included how the power is developed too, since I think that will be very important to potential buyers.

Perfect.

[gofasterrosssco]

CJP80 said:

gofasterrosssco said:

Yeah, but that'd be a bit of skewed poll, as the additional power would come at the expense of other things, including additional weight, chassis balance, grip, servicing requirements etc. not including additional purchase and running costs. So it wouldn't really be 'this' car, but a different version..

I'm sure if there were no compromises, most people would tick the extra power box, but in reality there are, many..

I guess the question is, could have toyoru given us more more, a higher redline and kept the price the same? I don't see why not.

Perhaps they will. Its not as if the Japanese manufacturers don't like 'special' versions. To me the current car leaves plenty scope for a Type-R / STI version.

Right now the base version of the car is being compared to the most focused of each rival model (Cayman s, Clio Cup, Integra Type-R, sportiest Megane), so its not difficult to imagine a lighter, shorter geared, higher-reeving version. That might not necessarily make it a better road car, but you've got to wonder what new car in this price range would be more focused, with the exception of low-volume cars like Loti offerings..

[bobbylondonuk]

now what happens if there is a supercharger bolted on the gt86?

[MarkRSi]

kambites said:

CJP80 said:

I definitely get it. Imagine the scenario: Out for a blast one Sunday morning and you're getting on it and some chap in an older BMW decides to try and stay with you. Now, is there really anyone on here that's going to say that you'd happily move over and let him past because you are having more fun and driver involvement? I don't think so.

If someone comes up behind me who wants to go faster than me of course I let them past, whatever I'm driving and whatever they're driving. Frankly I'm disappointed that anyone who considers themselves a driving enthusiast would be selfish enough not to!

Quite. If I wanted to get from A to B as quickly as possible I'd be looking at turbo FWD/4WD machines, not a RWD N/A coupe. Megane 265/Impreza STi/Evo/GTR/911 Turbo etc. all ought to be quicker than the 3 cars here in the dry on the road, and definitely faster in the wet.

I'm confident a 335D would absolutely muller the Cayman for pace. Does that mean it's too slow as well? Or how about getting 'owned' in your TVR/370Z/M3/basic 911/Impreza etc. by an old duffer driving a boring looking Audi estate?

[kambites]

Here's the poll:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[CJP80]

MarkRSi said:

I'm confident a 335D would absolutely muller the Cayman for pace.

Eh, no. 10.7 to 100mph vs. 13.4. Maybe in-gear acceleration if the Cayman was caught out.

[craigbunyan]

Dagnut said:

Are you seriously defending the use of used cars in a group test? In this group test?

Do you honestly believe people going to the Toyota forecourt are debating a used Cayman? You obviously have no idea who this car is aimed at.

Well, I'm going to test an 86 on Saturday morning and a used Cayman at a the Porsche dealer straight after. So yes, I'm going to be standing on the forecourt debating between the two.

It's going to be my work/commuting car - I live in the Trossachs, drive 30 miles a day over great, well sighted and quiet roads and don't need 4 seats.

[Some Gump]

Dagnut, your earlier arguement was on running Costs / cost to own, now you u turn and go to the next bit. Anyways, rather Than joining in with a discussion that you will most likely simply have to have the last word on, i'll simply post this:

Edited by Some Gump on Thursday 16th August 10:52

[Urban Sports]

Some Gump said:

Dagnut, your earlier arguement was on running osts / coat to own, now you u turn and go to the next bit. Anyways, rather Than joining in with a discussion that you will most likely simply have to have the lat word on, i'll simply post this:

What?

[Rawwr]

That bird really does look like a urinal.

[Urban Sports]

CJP80 said:

MarkRSi said:

I'm confident a 335D would absolutely muller the Cayman for pace.

Eh, no. 10.7 to 100mph vs. 13.4. Maybe in-gear acceleration if the Cayman was caught out.

10.7?