RE: Paris 2012: F-Type, full details

[CDP]

Si_man306 said:

Screaming mini- ferrari/ aston but more subtle and at a price most could aspire to..yes please!

Definitely the first Jag i've ever fancied buying.

Ferrari/Aston/Maserati seem to be the companies Jaguar should be gunning for on style and it looks like they're capable of it too. Leave the volume rep-boxes to BMW, Merc and possibly (wishful thinking here) a new Rover.

What proportion of the price of a 458 is R&D? Imagine spreading over twenty times as many cars?

[kambites]

pti said:

kambites said:

pti said:

In their current line up it is the "sports car"

Well yes, but that's Vauxhall calling the Tigra a "sports car". It doesn't make it true.

Touché. Although I respectfully disagree (about it not being a sports car - not the Tigra...)

This is clearly a car that's designed, primarily, to be fast and comfortable - that's a GT.

The Tigra is car that's designed to be a hatchback with the roof cut off and two seats missing - that's rubbish.

Neither is a sports car.

[k-ink]

kambites said:

This is clearly a car that's designed, primarily, to be fast and comfortable - that's a GT.

The Tigra is car that's designed to be a hatchback with the roof cut off and two seats missing - that's rubbish.

Neither is a sports car.

Exactly.

[TheAntics]

Guvernator said:

TheAntics said:

the V8 S is £10k cheaper and faster to 60 than a 991 CS convertible. This is a 911 baiter and I'm surprised to find people on here saying it's too expensive.

This is true to a point but they aren't really in the same segment. The 911 is a four seater GT (yes I know the rear seats are useless) which is in a higher segment\class whereas the F-Type is a 2 seater sports car which is why people are comparing it to the Boxster rather than the 911 in which case it's more expensive.

In fact it's more expensive than all the other 2 seater sports cars in it's segment too like the Z4 and the SLK. I guess the only thing you could compare it too is an Aston Martin V8 convertible which is similar in price but the Aston is seen as a top end luxury marque so can charge these prices, the Jaguar brand isn't in the same league as Aston and is closer to the German marques in brand image, therefore £60k-£80k for a two seater sports cars is a bit much IMO and many others.

Looking at the V8 only....strange decision that a 4 seater sports car (not GT) that has 2 useless seats and a useless boot shape is in a higher segment than a car that is faster, more practically proportioned and cheaper.

On the other hand I agree with most of what you said.

The Porsche is the maybe the benchmark for dynamics, as nobody has driven an F-type yet then nobody knows if the better performance stats translate. Porsche is far from the benchmark for practicality (although I love the things) and actually the Jag in real terms is probably more practical as a result of it's layout. But again nobody has lived with one yet so we don't know.

Personally I think many people have missed the point because of an assumption that this would be a boxter segment car. Turns out it's in a very narrow segment between Cayman R and 911 and in and around upper Z4/SLK type stuff but lower than 911.

It's neither one thing or the other but takes the fight to all of them....kind of like an evoque, which has been a massive flop.

[pti]

kambites said:

pti said:

kambites said:

pti said:

In their current line up it is the "sports car"

Well yes, but that's Vauxhall calling the Tigra a "sports car". It doesn't make it true.

Touché. Although I respectfully disagree (about it not being a sports car - not the Tigra...)

This is clearly a car that's designed, primarily, to be fast and comfortable - that's a GT.

The Tigra is car that's designed to be a hatchback with the roof cut off and two seats missing - that's rubbish.

Neither is a sports car.

Fair logic. Drive one and tell me it's not a sports car

[kambites]

pti said:

Fair logic. Drive one and tell me it's not a sports car

As I said, to me how a car drives has absolutely no bearing on whether it's a sports car or not. It's all about design intent and you do not set out to design a car primarily for having fun with on back-roads and end up at 1600kg with an automatic gearbox.

The 991 Carrara is probably a vastly better drivers car than the MGF, but to me the MGF is still a sports car and the 911 isn't.

[braddo]

I can't see how it can even remotely be compared to the smaller sports car segment of Boxster/SLK/Z4 - it is way too big, and way too expensive for that. It's more like a sportier version of a Mercedes SL. And to be fair, it's a chunk lighter than a SL.

The press seemed to leap to conclusions, swallowing the 'lightweight' talk and the shortened XK platform to conclude the car would be smaller. It's not - it's shorter, but not downsized from the XK.

Which is disappointing. A compact sportscar from Jaguar would be awesome. They are certainly on a role and there's little doubt the F-type will sell well.

[theaxe]

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's a link to a configurator

[pti]

kambites said:

As I said, to me how a car drives has absolutely no bearing on whether it's a sports car or not. It's all about design intent and you do not set out to design a car primarily for having fun with on back-roads and end up at 1600kg with an automatic gearbox.

The 911 is a vastly better drivers car than the MGF, but to me the MGF is still a sports car and the 911 isn't.

This is a Jaguar sports car. Jaguar aren't a brand who makes lightweight back-road thrashers (whether they should is a different matter), they are a brand who believes in comfort and quality regardless of speed Until recently they hadn't offered a car without a leather interior as standard! Certain standards must be adhered to when creating a new Jag, therefore this - in my eyes - is a true British sports car.

[kambites]

pti said:

This is a Jaguar sports car. Jaguar aren't a brand who makes lightweight back-road thrashers (whether they should is a different matter), they are a brand who believes in comfort and quality regardless of speed Until recently they hadn't offered a car without a leather interior as standard! Certain standards must be adhered to when creating a new Jag, therefore this - in my eyes - is a true British sports car.

That is entirely why, to my mind, this is a GT not a sports car.

I'm not saying that Jaguar should have made a sports car, since they are very, very good at making GTs. However, personally I have no interest in owning a GT so for me this car is a disappointment because it's not even in the market segment that I'd tentatively believed it would be.

I'm in no way being derogatory about the car; I just thing they've mislead everyone with the marketing. Jaguar calling this a sports car is like Lotus calling the Europa a GT - I just hope the marketing screw up doesn't hurt them in the same way it did Lotus. I suspect it wont though, because even if the car was complete and utter rubbish to drive, it would sell on looks alone.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th September 15:20

[handbraketurn]

Great job jaaaag. Very faithful to the concept which I loved. No complaints about the engine units, and if the chassis is going to be as good as they have been selling it to be, then its going to be an absolute cracker. If only they'd do a manual.

Personally I'll wait for the coupe, and it could be the first Jag I have ever wanted to own...

[pti]

kambites said:

That is entirely why, to my mind, this is a GT not a sports car.

I'm not saying that Jaguar should have made a sports car, since they are very, very good at making GTs. However, personally I have no interest in owning a GT so for me this car is a disappointment because it's not even in the market segment that I'd tentatively believed it would be.

I'm in no way being derogatory about the car; I just thing they've mislead everyone with the marketing. Jaguar calling this a sports car is like Lotus calling the Europa a GT - I just hope the marketing screw up doesn't hurt them in the same way it did Lotus. I suspect it wont though, because even if the car was complete and utter rubbish to drive, it would sell on looks alone.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th September 15:20

Agree to disagree then? It's nice to have an intelligent debate on here for once.

I wouldn't have minded it being a bit lighter myself...

[Guvernator]

TheAntics said:

It's neither one thing or the other but takes the fight to all of them....kind of like an evoque, which has been a massive flop.

I have absolutely no doubts that these will absolutely fly out the door, much like the Evoque as it has 2 ingredients in common with it.

Stunning looks - check
Over-inflated price based on marketing\branding which pitches it at the new money - check

So JLR seem to have worked out the correct formula for making cars sell, make them pretty and make them aspirational.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing but as a car enthusiast I can't help but feel a little disappointed at some of the lost potential which this car promised. It could have been a slightly more focused and cheaper "sports car" rather than a pricey 2 seater GT but then I guess I'm not exactly the market audience that JLR are aiming for. Depending on how well it drives though, it could still make an interesting used proposition in a couple of years when all the luvvies have moved on.

[CDP]

Guvernator said:

It could have been a slightly more focused and cheaper "sports car" rather than a pricey 2 seater GT but then I guess I'm not exactly the market audience that JLR are aiming for.

My guess is the GT86 is the place to look for an attractive lightweight cheaper back road coupe.

[kambites]

pti said:

Agree to disagree then? It's nice to have an intelligent debate on here for once.

I wouldn't have minded it being a bit lighter myself...

I'm not sure it should have been lighter - I think it's a brilliant replacement for the XK (who used the rear seats anyway?) and will probably be a fantastic GT.

I'd still love to see Jaguar do a 1300kg, 300bhp Boxster/Cayman competitor as well though.

[Guvernator]

CDP said:

Guvernator said:

It could have been a slightly more focused and cheaper "sports car" rather than a pricey 2 seater GT but then I guess I'm not exactly the market audience that JLR are aiming for.

My guess is the GT86 is the place to look for an attractive lightweight cheaper back road coupe.

Err...no!

[MrTappets]

I want a coupe version with the basic v6 thanks and a manual box

[BoostMonkey]

theaxe said:

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's a link to a configurator

Thanks, just specced what I would like S/C V6 380 with options is £76,985.....Hummmm

[Neilc123]

Shame really:

1. It is a ragtop
2. It seems a little overpriced for what it is but then I fear a lot of manufacturers are slightly overpricing cars for what you actually get nowadays
3. it is okay, however hardly anything amazingly new.

I am sure it will sell, helped by the fact it is something new and I have no doubt it is nice to drive, however at a starting price of £58k you'll really hope so,however will it takes chunks out of the opposition - I'm not so sure.

[braddo]

Guvernator said:

CDP said:

Guvernator said:

It could have been a slightly more focused and cheaper "sports car" rather than a pricey 2 seater GT but then I guess I'm not exactly the market audience that JLR are aiming for.

My guess is the GT86 is the place to look for an attractive lightweight cheaper back road coupe.

Err...no!

Sub-30k, I'd say yes. At the higher ranges it seems the Boxster remains the unassailable benchmark (frankly astounding value for the basic model with minimal options).