What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?

[biggbn]

wpa1975 said:

I might be wrong but I sure that the old BMW 4 cylinder block was used in the F1 engine with 1500bhp.

Correct.

[biggbn]

otolith said:

wpa1975 said:

I might be wrong but I sure that the old BMW 4 cylinder block was used in the F1 engine with 1500bhp.

I believe so.

I do wonder, though, when it turns out that an engine (or component thereof) could be used to produce far higher outputs than it was ever designed to, whether it was just heavier or more costly than it needed to be in the first place. That thing about "Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands".

Chapman?

[What The Deuces]

biggbn said:

wpa1975 said:

I might be wrong but I sure that the old BMW 4 cylinder block was used in the F1 engine with 1500bhp.

Correct.

Legend has it that they were left outside to 'season' as well, under the Bavarian weather conditions and a stream of engineers warm piss

[biggbn]

Funkstar De Luxe said:

crosseyedlion said:

I always loved the Alfa 2.0 16v Twin Spark. So revvy, smooth and actually sounds italian!

Agreed

Had this engine in a 145 Breadvan green cloverleaf, one of my favourite cars owned and had a right old school hot hatch feel, 'pointy' front end, nervous rear, really quite quick for what it was.

[Olivera]

biggbn said:

wpa1975 said:

I might be wrong but I sure that the old BMW 4 cylinder block was used in the F1 engine with 1500bhp.

Correct.

I think it gains 100bhp every time it's mentioned on the internet. IIRC it was estimated to produce 1400bhp in qualifying trim, and probably significantly less in race duration trim.

There was an interesting interview with Andy Wallace in Evo some years back, he drove some of the Group C turbo beasts that put out not dissimilar figures in qualifying trim, but he mentioned after a few brief laps in qualifying (tens of miles at best) they would come back with head gaskets blown and coolant pissing everywhere (if they hadn't grenaded entirely). He mentioned the road Bugatti engines that he was then road testing (albeit a lot larger) could put out more power, last 10,000 times longer, and were far easier to drive.

[biggbn]

Olivera said:

biggbn said:

wpa1975 said:

I might be wrong but I sure that the old BMW 4 cylinder block was used in the F1 engine with 1500bhp.

Correct.

I think it gains 100bhp every time it's mentioned on the internet. IIRC it was estimated to produce 1400bhp in qualifying trim, and probably significantly less in race duration trim.

There was an interesting interview with Andy Wallace in Evo some years back, he drove some of the Group C turbo beasts that put out not dissimilar figures in qualifying trim, but he mentioned after a few brief laps in qualifying (tens of miles at best) they would come back with head gaskets blown and coolant pissing everywhere (if they hadn't grenaded entirely). He mentioned the road Bugatti engines that he was then road testing (albeit a lot larger) could put out more power, last 10,000 times longer, and were far easier to drive.

The 1400hp from the old school f1 1500 turbo fours was described by Keke Rosberg as hand grenade spec, qualifying only, he likened the throttle response to flicking on a lightswitch!

[Gladers01]

gazza285 said:

pheonix478 said:

My vote goes to Ducati Desmo (916) and Subaru EJ22…

Last time I looked the Ducati only had two cylinders…

It's definitely a V twin, maybe a contender for the best twin cylinder engine ever made

[ZedLeg]

Olivera said:

I think it gains 100bhp every time it's mentioned on the internet. IIRC it was estimated to produce 1400bhp in qualifying trim, and probably significantly less in race duration trim.

There was an interesting interview with Andy Wallace in Evo some years back, he drove some of the Group C turbo beasts that put out not dissimilar figures in qualifying trim, but he mentioned after a few brief laps in qualifying (tens of miles at best) they would come back with head gaskets blown and coolant pissing everywhere (if they hadn't grenaded entirely). He mentioned the road Bugatti engines that he was then road testing (albeit a lot larger) could put out more power, last 10,000 times longer, and were far easier to drive.

That's not really a surprise. The more power your engine safely makes na, the easier time it'll have on boost. I imagine the head gasket on one of those old boosted F1 engines must've been holding on with their fingernails
:

[What The Deuces]

ZedLeg said:

The more power your engine safely makes na, the easier time it'll have on boost.

Not the thread for this, but not necessarily true IMO

Very Very simplistically take two identical N/A engines and drop the CR on one of them....it'll make less power.......now add as much boost as you can to each of them....

[ZedLeg]

What The Deuces said:

ZedLeg said:

The more power your engine safely makes na, the easier time it'll have on boost.

Not the thread for this, but not necessarily true IMO

Very Very simplistically take two identical N/A engines and drop the CR on one of them....it'll make less power.......now add as much boost as you can to each of them....

True, my thinking is that (and it's been a while since I've thought about turbo tuning so I might be wrong) if you have the two engines, the higher comp one will make the same power with less boost, therefore not needing to be boosted to grenade spec.

[What The Deuces]

ZedLeg said:

What The Deuces said:

ZedLeg said:

The more power your engine safely makes na, the easier time it'll have on boost.

Not the thread for this, but not necessarily true IMO

Very Very simplistically take two identical N/A engines and drop the CR on one of them....it'll make less power.......now add as much boost as you can to each of them....

True, my thinking is that (and it's been a while since I've thought about turbo tuning so I might be wrong) if you have the two engines, the higher comp one will make the same power with less boost, therefore not needing to be boosted to grenade spec.

Its reciprocating forces that kills engines and det not boost IME... i'll dig out some info on the old F1 turbo 4's when i get chance, youve got me thinking...

[Pepperpots]

I always thought it was head gaskets...

[rambo19]

Land rover 2.25 petrol engine.

[ZedLeg]

Pepperpots said:

I always thought it was head gaskets...

The head gaskets give up under the pressure of the boost.

[What The Deuces]

ZedLeg said:

Pepperpots said:

I always thought it was head gaskets...

The head gaskets give up under the pressure of the boost.

It’s not quite that binary, you could run limitless boost and never ‘blow up’ due to pressure depending on inlet/exhaust cam timing for example. It’s not really down to one individual element but the way they’re used in combination

[pheonix478]

gazza285 said:

Last time I looked the Ducati only had two cylinders…

Doh! Brain fail. OK Panigale V4 then!

[thiscocks]

ZedLeg said:

Pepperpots said:

I always thought it was head gaskets...

The head gaskets give up under the pressure of the boost.

Main problem with the early turbo cars was pre-ignition

[sean ie3]

Pretty common when I was young a 2l Ford pinto with a fast road cam and a pair of 40's, evocative.

[DP14]

Has the Offenhauser been mentioned?

[Leins]

otolith said:

And I would blame credit PSA with birthing the diesel hot hatch, with the ZX Volcane and 306 DTurbo.

Think VW got there first (again), although they didn’t bother bringing them across the channel