RE: Mini Electric is here!

[Deep Thought]

DonkeyApple said:

Deep Thought said:

I see the "its no cheaper than running an ICE car". Thats not an EV's purpose though is it?

Its purpose is to move us away from ICE cars.

As many as possible and over a timescale that won’t cause economic problems. They aren’t going to replace ICE just be as prevalent as plausible. At the moment that means subsidising one and taxing the other but that’s not a long term solution. Genuine price competition is needed for any kind of sales volume inversion. And even if that happens in the next few years there are manufacturing volume restrictions due to raw material supplies.

And the data is already here that shows that EV private cars aren’t an actual solution to urban air pollution. They will help but there is a point at which the switch from ICE to EV will stop having any meaningful benefit and that is when the tax and subsidy game will end and a different centralised plan be put into place that probably involves targeting size and weight or moves altogether to targeting the larger causes.

What we won’t see is EV replacing ICE in its entirety while EVs are powered by big, expensive and inefficient current battery tech.

I’m sure that over the coming decade the type of ICE on sale will evolve quite strongly in different directions but they aren’t going to go away because there is not yet anything to completely replace them.

Agreed. Whilst we should all move to an EV as soon as possible to help move us away from our dependence on fossil fuels for transport, i think that will only come with further incentivisation - most likely in the form of over taxing ICE cars to continue to / increase subsidies on EVs.

I think by the time we are due a change of car, then an EV will be a viable alternative. Up until recently that would have been "questionable" for us, but i think there are now real, viable options here / coming soon. The only fly in the ointment for us would be the lack of a fun / engaging driving experience with current EVs but hopefully that will change.

Interesting times ahead...

[anonymous-user]

Deep Thought said:

Agreed. Whilst we should all move to an EV as soon as possible to help move us away from our dependence on fossil fuels for transport, i think that will only come with further incentivisation - most likely in the form of over taxing ICE cars to continue to / increase subsidies on EVs.

I think by the time we are due a change of car, then an EV will be a viable alternative. Up until recently that would have been "questionable" for us, but i think there are now real, viable options here / coming soon. The only fly in the ointment for us would be the lack of a fun / engaging driving experience with current EVs but hopefully that will change.

Interesting times ahead...

I take it you don't fly anywhere? Or do you have an electric plane?

[Nerdherder]

yonex said:

Deep Thought said:

Agreed. Whilst we should all move to an EV as soon as possible to help move us away from our dependence on fossil fuels for transport, i think that will only come with further incentivisation - most likely in the form of over taxing ICE cars to continue to / increase subsidies on EVs.

I think by the time we are due a change of car, then an EV will be a viable alternative. Up until recently that would have been "questionable" for us, but i think there are now real, viable options here / coming soon. The only fly in the ointment for us would be the lack of a fun / engaging driving experience with current EVs but hopefully that will change.

Interesting times ahead...

I take it you don't fly anywhere? Or do you have an electric plane?

Mushrooms.

[VERTBORON]

Hi, can anyone point me in right direction to find data for EVs that show Battery / Range reduction over time, say one to five years?

[Evanivitch]

DonkeyApple said:

No one actually needs an EV and that makes them a luxury good. Whereas many people do actually need a car so the ‘efficiencies’ that are pertinent are not yet the ones that EVs are superior in. It’s going to take more time in this regard.

No one needs a brand new car. Comparing the cost of new EV cars with the cost of used ICE cars is absurd.

[Evanivitch]

VERTBORON said:

Hi, can anyone point me in right direction to find data for EVs that show Battery / Range reduction over time, say one to five years?

Tesla data.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&amp...

[DonkeyApple]

Deep Thought said:

Agreed. Whilst we should all move to an EV as soon as possible to help move us away from our dependence on fossil fuels for transport, i think that will only come with further incentivisation - most likely in the form of over taxing ICE cars to continue to / increase subsidies on EVs.

I think by the time we are due a change of car, then an EV will be a viable alternative. Up until recently that would have been "questionable" for us, but i think there are now real, viable options here / coming soon. The only fly in the ointment for us would be the lack of a fun / engaging driving experience with current EVs but hopefully that will change.

Interesting times ahead...

Yup. I think the landscape will be very different in ten years time. EVs will have evolved to fill the niches that they can and some of those niches will be big and at the same time, the consumer mindset will have evolved and the majority of people who can benefit from an EV over ICE will be doing just that.

I could easily swap the local runabout for an EV and am keen to do so but to do that now wouldn’t be cost effective. The running cost would currently be lower but not the overall cost as the current runabout has at least another 5-10 years before going in the bin. If something happened to change that such as a catastrophic chnaical failure or a crash then I’d almost certainly replace it with an EV rather than another ICE. Bit ICE in one form or another will still be on sale in 10, even 20 years time as EVs as they currently stand are not a perfect solution that fits all requirements.

This is why Indomt see any logic in panicking over EVs replacing ICE as it just isn’t possible to achieve. And unless there is a step change in the way EVs are powered then over the next decade as EVs gain a greater foothold we will see an evolution and a resurgence in ICE.

The sad thing is that lovely big ICEs like V8s will almost certainly be phased out but if we think logically, even if EVs didn’t exist that would still be going to happen.

And in the wider scheme of things the big hurdle with EVs is the geopolitical aspect of migrating from a fuel source that is fundamentally controlled by the US to a raw materials supply that is controlled by China. Over the next decade we will really start to learn first hand the relevance of what is a fundamentally huge political shift. And we will look back to now with a little more clarity as to why the US/China trade war of today had stronger drivers behind it than we necessarily currently appreciate. If you want to build an EV and maintain an EV business then it is Asian balls you need to fondle not Western balls.

[Deep Thought]

yonex said:

Deep Thought said:

Agreed. Whilst we should all move to an EV as soon as possible to help move us away from our dependence on fossil fuels for transport, i think that will only come with further incentivisation - most likely in the form of over taxing ICE cars to continue to / increase subsidies on EVs.

I think by the time we are due a change of car, then an EV will be a viable alternative. Up until recently that would have been "questionable" for us, but i think there are now real, viable options here / coming soon. The only fly in the ointment for us would be the lack of a fun / engaging driving experience with current EVs but hopefully that will change.

Interesting times ahead...

I take it you don't fly anywhere? Or do you have an electric plane?

I fly to work as it happens.

Not sure of the relevance. I'm not evangelising for EV, merely saying i am now starting to see that it is moving in a viable direction in terms of replace ICE cars.

[anonymous-user]

Deep Thought said:

I fly to work as it happens.

Not sure of the relevance. I'm not evangelising for EV, merely saying i am now starting to see that it is moving in a viable direction in terms of replace ICE cars.

Commuting yes, mainstay, unless you have 80-100K, not really.

[Deep Thought]

yonex said:

Deep Thought said:

I fly to work as it happens.

Not sure of the relevance. I'm not evangelising for EV, merely saying i am now starting to see that it is moving in a viable direction in terms of replace ICE cars.

Commuting yes, mainstay, unless you have 80-100K, not really.

I could make this mini work as a main car if I needed to. That new Hyundai also.

[anonymous-user]

Deep Thought said:

I could make this mini work as a main car if I needed to. That new Hyundai also.

Go for it.

But feel free to miss the point otherwise.

[DonkeyApple]

Evanivitch said:

DonkeyApple said:

No one actually needs an EV and that makes them a luxury good. Whereas many people do actually need a car so the ‘efficiencies’ that are pertinent are not yet the ones that EVs are superior in. It’s going to take more time in this regard.

No one needs a brand new car. Comparing the cost of new EV cars with the cost of used ICE cars is absurd.

So is comparing mice with bananas but no one’s done that either.

[MagicalTrevor]

I’ll be honest, I first read about the Mini and was disappointed. I wanted near-Tesla performance and range and the Mini, using i3 motors, isn’t exactly a step forward.
However, I don’t really need the range. My commute is 72 miles and is unlikely to increase, if I worked in London then I’d take the train.

So the Mini has adequate range, even in winter, decent performance at 7.2s 0-60 and a nice interior. Give or take a few grand, it’s half the price of the Model 3 Performance (unfair comparison) and it makes it a cheap way to commute when run through my Ltd. Co.

I’m actually quite taken by it, I even like the challenging wheel design.

I’ll be refunding my ID.3 deposit... assuming it’s not transferable and there’ll be no market for such things

[Deep Thought]

yonex said:

Go for it.

But feel free to miss the point otherwise.

Maybe if you were explicit about your "point" we wouldnt have to try to guess it?

Edited by Deep Thought on Sunday 14th July 22:19

[SOL111]

MagicalTrevor said:

I’ll be honest, I first read about the Mini and was disappointed. I wanted near-Tesla performance and range and the Mini, using i3 motors, isn’t exactly a step forward.
However, I don’t really need the range. My commute is 72 miles and is unlikely to increase, if I worked in London then I’d take the train.

So the Mini has adequate range, even in winter, decent performance at 7.2s 0-60 and a nice interior. Give or take a few grand, it’s half the price of the Model 3 Performance (unfair comparison) and it makes it a cheap way to commute when run through my Ltd. Co.

I’m actually quite taken by it, I even like the challenging wheel design.

I’ll be refunding my ID.3 deposit... assuming it’s not transferable and there’ll be no market for such things

Yes, it's a no brainer to put one of these through your company. 1st year write down on CT and 0% BIK coming up. The savings will surely facilitate a wheel change

The thing is, BMW could achieve a 200+ range, like the VW ID but the long range VW is 1700kg vs the Mini's 1400kg. The handling would be diabolical and people would moan.

I've a feeling this will be very good when it comes out. Low CoG and better weight distribution.

[David87]

What's with the giant, angular door mirrors? Are they doing a 5-door hatch version?

[anonymous-user]

Deep Thought said:

Maybe if you were explicit about your "point" we wouldnt have to try to guess it?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 14th July 22:19

An interesting 40K EV with 250 range?

[PBCD]

yonex said:

An interesting 40K EV with 250 range?

Please define 'interesting' in this context...

[anonymous-user]

PBCD said:

Please define 'interesting' in this context...

Something that a person would look forward to driving and gain enjoyment from, rather than the equivalent of taking the POD?

[DonkeyApple]

yonex said:

Something that a person would look forward to driving and gain enjoyment from, rather than the equivalent of taking the POD?

So are you claiming that no one could possibly do that with this EV or just saying that you personally probably wouldn’t, although you’ve not yet tried, so can’t be 100% sure?