RE: Alpine A110S vs. Porsche 718 GT4 vs. Audi R8 RWS

[greenarrow]

Hungrymc said:

Its been an eye opening thread to see just how partisan people can be (normally reserved for PCP and SUV threads). Point blank refusal to acknowledge that people will have different preferences (and cars are off course designed and targeted at different types of users).

.

Yep, car owners/fans are just as tribal as football fans. Most of the trolling on this thread against the Alpine has come from Porsche owners, who see the Alpine as the enemy, much as your Man U fan hates anything Liverpool related. Ford v Chevvy, Porsche v Alpine, its nothing new. The trouble is, any thread involving an Alpine, or worse, a comparison with a Porsche seems to bring out the PH "wind-up" merchants who infect almost every thread on GG these days and added to the mix are Alpine fans/owners themselves who are quite a fanatical bunch.

Me, I like to sit on the fence... love the Alpine, love the Cayman, love the Audi.... life's too short to waste time arguing over cars like this.

[bcr5784]

Hungrymc said:

I agree with everything you say..... Right up until you throw the badge snobbery comment in.

For context, I found the Alpine interior absolutely fine (admittedly a limited test drive). Some of the criticism I had previously read had me expecting something nasty. Its nice, certainly isn't nasty.

But then I find the Cayman interior / switch gear nice as well, I can see an argument that its higher quality in terms of material / switch action and can understand why someone would pay a premium for what they feel is higher quality. Can also see an argument that the layout is unclear (I'd rather have the physical buttons than have to dig through a menu system but there are a lot of switches).

Not sure If it would be much of a factor in my decision making either way.... Both are nice, both have merits. Not unreasonable to pick either I certainly wouldn't make a disparaging assumption about someone's motives for going either way.

The reason I question their motives is that the reason THEY give for their disapproval of the Alpine switchgear is that it comes from other Renault models. Why would that be an issue - other than badge snobbery? I don't give a damn where the switchgear comes from if it works well.

[DoubleD]

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

People tend to find "reasonable" are points of view that they would agree with.

You're just an Alpine hater. And Porsche switchgear is better period. No manual box so not for me. Innit.

Is that a better way to contribute on this forum?

I have no idea what you are on about?

You wouldn't as you're another one who ignores constructive dialogue on here.

Still no idea what you are on about.

Not surprised by that at all

Maybe you could explain?

[Prestonese]

DoubleD said:

Maybe you could explain?

I'm being facetious. Greenarrow explained it well. Most of the chat is one liners like our exchange just now. When someone like bcr gives a detailed account, it's just annoying to see another "yeah, but it's a Renault innit" or "yeah, but I only drive manuals as I'm a god innit" comments. They add nothing to the discussion and the serial offenders never provide any interesting insight to why they take such views. Many of them haven't even driven the cars they have criticised or dismissed.

[DoubleD]

Prestonese said:

DoubleD said:

Maybe you could explain?

I'm being facetious. Greenarrow explained it well. Most of the chat is one liners like our exchange just now. When someone like bcr gives a detailed account, it's just annoying to see another "yeah, but it's a Renault innit" or "yeah, but I only drive manuals as I'm a god innit" comments. They add nothing to the discussion and the serial offenders never provide any interesting insight to why they take such views. Many of them haven't even driven the cars they have criticised or dismissed.

Well I am someone who wouldn't consider an Alpine as its an automatic only. But its ok for people to make a choice like that.

Calling it a Renault parts bin special as some others have though is a bit stupid.

[Gerradi]

...I think these characters are just keeping in shape for the TTRS debacles lol. The I have a porkerdontcha know owners really wet there nappies then....all that understeer, I'd feel safer in a Tesco trolley ...it really is schoolday nonsense . hardly surprising given most of their mental ages...
I had the same in 1988!
I bought a year old Renault 21 Turbo & had it chipped,the Cosworth boys could not shake it off nor could I shake them off. The snearing about it being a Renault & the Fords Cosworth engine etc had to be seen to be beleived, but its still fresh here....must be their Granchildren , not much EVOlution going on there then...

[D7Cup]

Good read and great photography. I don't get why the exige was not in there though? Mid engine'd sports cars you say?

[blueg33]

The amateur psychologist in me thinks that some Porsche owners get defensive because deep down they know that they based their decision on the brand first and driving second, possibly assuming that the driving is the best because it’s a Porsche.

They then fall into cognitive dissonance when other cars especially cheaper or similar priced ones are reported as better to drive. They haven’t driven the other cars so resort to what they think is safe ground like switchgear and stitching

[anonymous-user]

blueg33 said:

Porsche owners get defensive because deep down they know that they based their decision on the brand. They haven’t driven the other cars so resort to what they think is safe ground like switchgear and stitching

You just can't stop yourself.

[Tickle]

D7Cup said:

Good read and great photography. I don't get why the exige was not in there though? Mid engine'd sports cars you say?

A 350 wasn't available the article states, not sure why a 410 wasn't considered though.

[blueg33]

rockin said:

blueg33 said:

Porsche owners get defensive because deep down they know that they based their decision on the brand. They haven’t driven the other cars so resort to what they think is safe ground like switchgear and stitching

You just can't stop yourself.

In the case of some on here, you are dead right, I’m trying to understand the logic fail.

It does not mean I dislike Porsche cars, it does not mean that I haven’t and won’t consider them, it just means that I don’t get the way in some peoples eyes Porsche can do no wrong despite evidence to the contrary.

I have seen similar phenomena with other brands Audi being one, but when Porsche is involved more come out of the woodwork.

Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 12th February 17:06

[Gerradi]

blueg33 said:

The amateur psychologist in me thinks that some Porsche owners get defensive because deep down they know that they based their decision on the brand first and driving second, possibly assuming that the driving is the best because it’s a Porsche.

They then fall into cognitive dissonance when other cars especially cheaper or similar priced ones are reported as better to drive. They haven’t driven the other cars so resort to what they think is safe ground like switchgear and stitching

I wish PH would put a "LIKE" button here


LIKE!!!

[Clockwork Cupcake]

I was disappointed that the flowery and ebullient prose, redolent of a certain Mr. Queef, didn't mention a dab of oppo at any point.

The Alpine S seems a stunning little car and would be top of my list should I ever sell the Sagaris. A drop in performance, of course, but a huge leap in usability and practicality, and I think it looks fab.

[julian64]

bigmowley said:

Great test. I’ve got an R8 RWS, had a 981 GT4 and got a 718 Spyder. Like the look of the Alpine and might jump into one later, my current lightweight thrills are from a S1 Elise.
Agree with all of your comments but for me the R8 is head and shoulders above a GT4. For pure theatre and excitement it’s the one, the GT4, great as it is, is just a bit mute by comparison.
At the same price point it’s a no brainer. Good luck getting into an RWS though, I think there were only 34 registered during the production run and mine for one is going nowhere.

I don't understand this "For pure theatre" none of those cars are even close to theatre. The Audi is actually a decent Q car rather than theatre.

[Miserablegit]

“Back when I were a lad” a q-car was something that looked like a family car but went like the proverbial off a digging implement.
A v10-equipped car would never be in that category and I wouldn’t take issue with anyone describing a car with a howling v10 as “theatre”
Tough crowd !

[bcr5784]

Miserablegit said:

“Back when I were a lad” a q-car was something that looked like a family car but went like the proverbial off a digging implement.
A v10-equipped car would never be in that category and I wouldn’t take issue with anyone describing a car with a howling v10 as “theatre”
Tough crowd !

+1 I suppose you could argue that by supercar standards, although it has aural drama, it's visually quite subdued. No bad thing as far as I am concerned - but doubtless some supercars buyers want to make a visual statement too.

[Hungrymc]

bcr5784 said:

The reason I question their motives is that the reason THEY give for their disapproval of the Alpine switchgear is that it comes from other Renault models. Why would that be an issue - other than badge snobbery? I don't give a damn where the switchgear comes from if it works well.

I don’t think it’s too hard to believe that some would find it disappointing that the Alpine has switchgear designed for a much cheaper car? That’s built on the reasonable assumption that generally quality and feel improve as specifications increase with models / costs.

It honestly isn’t an issue at all for me. There have to be these compromises in low volume cars else the costs spiral drastically (or the quality is riddled with compromises due to under-development). But I can accept some would find it disappointing without that being badge snobbery.

[Hungrymc]

bcr5784 said:

Miserablegit said:

“Back when I were a lad” a q-car was something that looked like a family car but went like the proverbial off a digging implement.
A v10-equipped car would never be in that category and I wouldn’t take issue with anyone describing a car with a howling v10 as “theatre”
Tough crowd !

+1 I suppose you could argue that by supercar standards, although it has aural drama, it's visually quite subdued. No bad thing as far as I am concerned - but doubtless some supercars buyers want to make a visual statement too.

+2 Agree. The looks are on the subtle side which could be good or bad I guess depending what you want. But there is theatre in that engine.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

It's a shame Renault couldn't have enlarged the engine to 2.0L - as it stands, the engine is smaller and less powerful than the one in the Golf R, although it's having to carry around less lard of course.

[mr pg]

The Alpine is a car I'd seriously consider to replace our 981 CS, but there's one aspect that just wouldn't work for us.
We do a euro trip every year, and this year it's 2 1/2 weeks instead of 2, and there's just not enough luggage space in comparison. The front boot has about half the volume, and that alone rules it out which is a shame as I love the concept of a lightweight mid engine coupe.