RE: Video: Key fob reprogrammers steal BMW in 3 mins

[Guvernator]

For those who keep harping on about "if they really want it they'll take it" why not just leave your car keys out in the front garden with a big sign saying "Please steal my car" and save them the bother?

The whole point is that yes although it's not possible to make something 100% secure, why make the toerags life easier than it needs to be? My house is secured with proper bolts on doors and windows and an alarm connected to the Police which is activated when we go to bed. This OBD weakness is the like the equivelent of me not activiting my house alarm and leaving the front door open.

Fact

1) Theft of BMW's has risen significantly since this OBD weakness was discovered

Fact

2) It is now almost childs play to get into a modern BMW and be away within a minute. It is this ease of theft which has directly led to fact 1.

If people are happy that "they'll have it anyway" then by all means let the toerags have your prized possesion with the minimum of fuss. I for one would like to see BMW do as much as possible to make it as difficult as possible for someone to nick my hard earned thank you very much.

[TheInternet]

[Fastdruid]

bertie said:

carinaman said:

Perhaps 'Going to sleep' and Alarm set to DEFCON 1 need to be two distinct separate states?

Not quite how the vehicle networks work.

It's usefull to watch the system go to full deep sleep via ODB as you don't want garages direct onto the CAN network.

But access to the CAN network is part of the OBD spec. Although admittedly that could be a separate CAN network to the cars CAN network.

[Madmatt74]

Normal key locking the car in Reverse worked well for SAAB.

I never heard of anyone driving away in one that didnt already have a key.

Simple and affective, until they work around it.

[bertie]

Fastdruid said:

But access to the CAN network is part of the OBD spec. Although admittedly that could be a separate CAN network to the cars CAN network.

There are often several CAN networks on a vehicle due to resiliance requirements which dictate the SIL level of the units that sit on them.

[carinaman]

Guvernator said:

For those who keep harping on about "if they really want it they'll take it" why not just leave your car keys out in the front garden with a big sign saying "Please steal my car" and save them the bother?

The whole point is that yes although it's not possible to make something 100% secure, why make the toerags life easier than it needs to be? My house is secured with proper bolts on doors and windows and an alarm connected to the Police which is activated when we go to bed. This OBD weakness is the like the equivelent of me not activiting my house alarm and leaving the front door open.

Fact

1) Theft of BMW's has risen significantly since this OBD weakness was discovered

Fact

2) It is now almost childs play to get into a modern BMW and be away within a minute. It is this ease of theft which has directly led to fact 1.

If people are happy that "they'll have it anyway" then by all means let the toerags have your prized possesion with the minimum of fuss. I for one would like to see BMW do as much as possible to make it as difficult as possible for someone to nick my hard earned thank you very much.

It's the new phone 'hacking'!! It needs to be tacked onto the end of the Leveson Inquiry!

It's that easy Piers Morgan could do it!

Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 3rd July 17:10

[Scuffers]

bertie said:

Fastdruid said:

But access to the CAN network is part of the OBD spec. Although admittedly that could be a separate CAN network to the cars CAN network.

There are often several CAN networks on a vehicle due to resiliance requirements which dictate the SIL level of the units that sit on them.

exactly, there is more than 1 CAN bus here..

And will people stop talking about the ECU, this has nothing to do with it, it's the CAS module you need to talk to.

I would not assume that the CAS module is even on the same CAB bus?

[tercelgold]

For those saying cut their hands off and if you make it harder to steal they will just murder your children,

Look at stabbing and glassing, stabbing under Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 could carry a life sentence, glassing is maximum 5 years. But there has been a rise in glassing just because it will work out at about 2 1/2 years sentence usually with a max of 5 which is never reached.

If you make stealing cars bad enough criminals will back away from it, add it onto breaking in and making people hand over their keys then crims may back away from it and find something else less risky.

[JDMDrifter]

Couldn't manufactures start putting the OBD port in the glove box and ensure the glovebox only opens when the car is unlocked ?

[Scuffers]

JDMDrifter said:

Couldn't manufactures start putting the OBD port in the glove box and ensure the glovebox only opens when the car is unlocked ?

why?

be a lot easier/cheaper just to write some decent code into the CAS, do a dealer recall, flash the CAS units, problem solved.

[thinfourth2]

peteO said:

fathomfive said:

peteO said:

im gonna say the same as most people... if they want it, no matter how well you secure it, they'll just break in to your house, beath the crap out of you and take the keys!

on a seperate note, seeing as everyone apart from me seems to know how to break in to cars, how do i get in to my 1980 corvette? the battery is dead and the door locks are frozen so wont open with the key...

Skeleton brick?

i should have said, without damaging anything

Well the brick will be fine

[thinfourth2]

Guvernator said:

For those who keep harping on about "if they really want it they'll take it" why not just leave your car keys out in the front garden with a big sign saying "Please steal my car" and save them the bother?

Tried it and the bloody thing is still there

[hairyben]

What really takes the piss, is while scumbags can ride off in new bimm for a few seconds work nobody in the world outside the merc main stealers can reset the service light on 639 vitos...

[Matgoodwin]

kambites said:

Then if an owners loses their keys, how do you program one?

It has got to be possible to "steal" a car, because it's the same process that one goes through when an owner loses the keys. The problem just seems to be that it's silent (because the alarm is rubbish) and too easy/fast. They could still just introduce a delay into the car-side of the OBD system so it takes 24 hours to program a key, or make it sound the alarm while it's programming, or something similar. This is a trivial problem to solve, if they could be bothered.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd July 09:22

When I bought my 123d (which was stolen last month using this method), it only came with one key. I decided it would be wise to get another key in case I lost it. When I went to BMW, they had to order me a new one which took a couple of days to arrive and came cut and pre-programmed for my car. They did not need access to my car or the existing key to get this so the idea that you need the OBD port for this purpose is completely false. Also I have read that it the tool the thieves are using does not program a new key from the car, it adds an existing key from any old BMW to the accepted keys list in the CAS, which suggests to me that the system is actually getting exploited rather than doing what it should be doing (I may be completely wrong about this - please correct me if I am).

[russy01]

NadiR said:

joshxs said:

Can't the manufactures just put the OBD port in the engine bay?

Not going to happen, the OBD port has to be within 12 inches of the steering wheel IIRC.

Yea but surely a rule can be changed to stop scum bags stealing.

[carinaman]

thinfourth2 said:

I'm sorry but you are talking 100% pure refined horsest

My wife owns a fiat panda on a 61 plate exactly the same age as the venerable BMWs

It has this funny bumpy metal thing called a key

Without this key the doors won't open and nor will the engine start

This car was made under exactly the same EU rules as the BMWs

It has the OBD port near the steering wheel which won't turn without the afore mentioned bumpy metal thing


The EU has not banned bumpy metal things

BMW has consigned the bumpy metal things to the dustbin of history due to the vanity of car buyers who don't like the dumpy metal things and want a nice big shiny start button so they can pretend there dull piece of diesel rep mobile in dishwasher white is actually a racecar

'The BMW 1M - more endangered than the average Panda'?

[kambites]

NadiR said:

joshxs said:

Can't the manufactures just put the OBD port in the engine bay?

Not going to happen, the OBD port has to be within 12 inches of the steering wheel IIRC.

It can't be quite that restrictive. The Elise's is down the bottom of the passenger footwell.

[va1o]

GFWilliams said:

Would this be a problem with new Minis too or is it just proper BMWs?

From a technical point of view I wouldn't be surprised if it affected the R56 MINI, but I'm not aware of any reports yet.

[carinaman]

va1o said:

GFWilliams said:

Would this be a problem with new Minis too or is it just proper BMWs?

From a technical point of view I wouldn't be surprised if it affected the R56 MINI, but I'm not aware of any reports yet.

I was wondering about that too, but thought that perhaps there's less of a demand for RHD Minis abroad?

[va1o]

carinaman said:

I was wondering about that too, but thought that perhaps there's less of a demand for RHD Minis abroad?

Yeah probably true, and less money in the parts etc. But I'm reasonably confident they'd share the same flaw.