Is fuel economy blown way out of proportion?

[TameRacingDriver]

BRMMA said:

I'm truly dreading the day when i become so sensible that i'd trade in an ineffecient but fun car that i love because a brand new eco box will work out cheaper and "get me from A to B just as fast, i mean you can't go over 70 mph anyway so why bother with a fast car" surely life is about fun and enjoying as much of your time on earth as possible

if saving money on fuel is going to give you the spare cash to do something else you truly love then great, however if you're saving money on fuel but just for that to be offset against a new finance agrement then it seems utterly pointless, surely any "feel good factor" that comes from buying a brand new eco box is gone within 6 months

I totally agree, in my case its to try and clear debts

Once done, I'll be back!

Although to be fair a Ford Puma is still a fairly fun little car. And I still don't see any point in paying more than you have to for a boring journey to work.

[R12HCO]

gizlaroc said:

BRMMA said:

I'm truly dreading the day when i become so sensible that i'd trade in an ineffecient but fun car that i love because a brand new eco box will work out cheaper and "get me from A to B just as fast, i mean you can't go over 70 mph anyway so why bother with a fast car" surely life is about fun and enjoying as much of your time on earth as possible

if saving money on fuel is going to give you the spare cash to do something else you truly love then great, however if you're saving money on fuel but just for that to be offset against a new finance agrement then it seems utterly pointless, surely any "feel good factor" that comes from buying a brand new eco box is gone within 6 months

I think that is the important thing you have to weigh up.

I would buy another M3, I would buy a 911. But for now a saloon with a nice engine doesn't appeal as much as one that does 0-60 in sub 8 seconds and still returns 45-65mpg.
Although, you then have things like the M135i that does 60 in 4.5 seconds and still does 30-40mpg.

To me the difference between 25mpg and 30mpg is not worth worrying about, the difference between 25 and 45mpg is worth worrying about, now I have a 45mpg car going back would not be easy.

I am having this problem also.

Ive gone from a 30 mpg 220+ bhp hot hatch, to 14 mpg 4x4 to a 50 mpg TDI hatch.

I want a big powerful car, something with 6 cylinders at least but I have got use to Economy of my current car that I cant seem to ditch it to then stump up more cash for extra fuel. This is despite never really bothering about MPG prior to getting said current car.

[CYMR0]

bp1000 said:

However there is nothing wrong with fancying a change, in your mates scenario if the BMW really is costing £800 every year there isn't much in it. Certainly beats someone trading their car for a brand new diesel and paying double, even triple on the lease.

Having priced up my old BMW (E39, then 8 years old) compared to my current leased E220 CDi, I reckon that driving brand new is costing me around £60 a month more for the 9k miles per year I did back then. Of course that equates to a morning off running around to fix whatever's just gone wrong.

[TameRacingDriver]

R12HCO said:

I am having this problem also.

Ive gone from a 30 mpg 220+ bhp hot hatch, to 14 mpg 4x4 to a 50 mpg TDI hatch.

I want a big powerful car, something with 6 cylinders at least but I have got use to Economy of my current car that I cant seem to ditch it to then stump up more cash for extra fuel. This is despite never really bothering about MPG prior to getting said current car.

It is true. The last time I took my 350Z out for a hoon (this was after I got the Puma), I put £25 worth in, took it around the block for about 20 minutes, and most of it was gone, which I must admit did take the fun out of it a bit.

This is why I think small, light, nippy little sports cars like the Elise / MR2 / GT86 etc are going to get a whole lot more popular in years to come, because fuel is only going one way, and wages, well, they aren't keeping up.

[Justin Case]

TameRacingDriver said:

As if depreciation is the be all and end all. Old car needs more tlc, and a lot of thirsty cars come with fairly high running costs too. New car = warranty = no unexpected bills. And in the longer term the shift to more economical cars will eventually save them money.

Not so sure about that. The first owner of my car lost £11k in three years, which would pay for enough petrol to have travelled 62,000 miles, or on the basis of routine services plus a new battery in my three years, more tlc than even a Friday afternoon DPF, DMF, ABS, DSC, OMG, ETC car would have needed in the same time.

There is as always a happy medium. The choice isn't, as some would have us believe, between a brand new Kia Picanto and an E36 BMW M3; there are lots of good enjoyable 3-4 year old cars around at about half the new price which won't break the bank to run.

[BRMMA]

R12HCO said:

gizlaroc said:

BRMMA said:

I'm truly dreading the day when i become so sensible that i'd trade in an ineffecient but fun car that i love because a brand new eco box will work out cheaper and "get me from A to B just as fast, i mean you can't go over 70 mph anyway so why bother with a fast car" surely life is about fun and enjoying as much of your time on earth as possible

if saving money on fuel is going to give you the spare cash to do something else you truly love then great, however if you're saving money on fuel but just for that to be offset against a new finance agrement then it seems utterly pointless, surely any "feel good factor" that comes from buying a brand new eco box is gone within 6 months

I think that is the important thing you have to weigh up.

I would buy another M3, I would buy a 911. But for now a saloon with a nice engine doesn't appeal as much as one that does 0-60 in sub 8 seconds and still returns 45-65mpg.
Although, you then have things like the M135i that does 60 in 4.5 seconds and still does 30-40mpg.

To me the difference between 25mpg and 30mpg is not worth worrying about, the difference between 25 and 45mpg is worth worrying about, now I have a 45mpg car going back would not be easy.

I am having this problem also.

Ive gone from a 30 mpg 220+ bhp hot hatch, to 14 mpg 4x4 to a 50 mpg TDI hatch.

I want a big powerful car, something with 6 cylinders at least but I have got use to Economy of my current car that I cant seem to ditch it to then stump up more cash for extra fuel. This is despite never really bothering about MPG prior to getting said current car.

I agree, that's why i had to go to a two car setup, between the Golf TDI and the Gransport it covers my motoring needs perfectly and the cost of owning the golf is offset by the amount it reduces the Maserati running costs. if i'm honest with myself if forced into only having one car it wouldn't be the maserati, it's most likely be a 330D or equivalent

[jones325i]

I think it is blown out of proportion by some. My father in law for instance is bloody obsessed with mpg. He does less than 10k miles a year and drives like an old fart, but insists on 50 to 60 mpg.

I get more like 25mpg from my v8, which I actually think is great value. But if I was doing 15k + a year I would have to think twice. I accept the costs as I see the car as my main hobby. But if I was sitting in it on the motorway everyday I know that the fuelling costs would annoy me. As it is, it's done 10k in the last 12 months and hasn't been painful on the wallet. Wife and I lift share in the week in her car which helps a lot.

It's done most of it's depreciating with the previous owner and anyway I intend to keep it a looong time. And being a petrol, I'm hoping it will continue to be very reliable.

Prior to the 550i, I ran an E36 325i for 10 years and 100,000 miles (took it to 195k). I honestly believe that I saved a lot of money compared to chopping and changing like many people do, even at 32mpg max, and enjoyed almost every mile.

[bp1000]

jones325i said:

I think it is blown out of proportion by some. My father in law for instance is bloody obsessed with mpg. He does less than 10k miles a year and drives like an old fart, but insists on 50 to 60 mpg.

I get more like 25mpg from my v8, which I actually think is great value. But if I was doing 15k + a year I would have to think twice. I accept the costs as I see the car as my main hobby. But if I was sitting in it on the motorway everyday I know that the fuelling costs would annoy me. As it is, it's done 10k in the last 12 months and hasn't been painful on the wallet. Wife and I lift share in the week in her car which helps a lot.

It's done most of it's depreciating with the previous owner and anyway I intend to keep it a looong time. And being a petrol, I'm hoping it will continue to be very reliable.

Prior to the 550i, I ran an E36 325i for 10 years and 100,000 miles (took it to 195k). I honestly believe that I saved a lot of money compared to chopping and changing like many people do, even at 32mpg max, and enjoyed almost every mile.

Perfect example

Your father in law is entitled to do whatever he wants. I dont know why he is obsessed with MPG, perhaps its a money thing, to spend less on fuel. But at less than 10k miles per year he's saving himself peanuts compared to if he was driving your v8. It's going to be around £25 a month.

I presume he's got some type of ecoboost ecotech blue motion hybrid type car. Likelihood is he had to buy fairly new if not brand new. If for example he ran your car, it would cost him £900 extra in fuel over 3 years. The depreciation on his newer eco box its going to be way way higher.

Of course this argument falls down if he's driving a nice 1.9tdi VAG powered car but people who buy newer fuel efficient cars to get 10-20mpg more are bonkers in my opinion.

Certain situations work, if i needed to sell my v8 if i started to do high miles i would buy an older 1.9tdi. However as pointed out, not exactly like for like on space but the nissan juke is a cheap finance option where swapping isn't really costing that much more, even funding the depreciation.

My point is only applicable to people who focus solely on MPG and buy cars because they need something more efficient so they save £50 a month, completely missing the depreciation.

I buy whatever i fancy, i did buy a 335d but only chose it over the 335i because i fancied trying a diesel and it drove very well, loved the low end grunt it was a change. I try to buy sensibly as i consider depreciation but i buy whatever i fancy driving.

Edited by bp1000 on Thursday 11th April 13:59

[DuncanM]

This is a very interesting thread with some good valid debate!

I am interested from a personal point of view having just bought my first diesel at the weekend.

I am worried that it's not going to be the right car for me. Already I am anticipating DMF failure and DPF issues.

The fact is, if I can get ~50mpg+ out of it then it is/was the right choice.

If not, and I only get ~40mpg out of it then I think I'll go back to a small petrol car.

For reference, I have bought a 407 2.0 HDI SE.

I miss my silly little 306 1.4 L already. Big diesel driving for mpg is a very different style of driving and I'm not sure it's right for me.

Thank you to everyone for the interesting posts so far, I will update with my findings after the first month of diesel mpg obsessed driving .


Edited to change 45mpg to 40mpg (mistake)

Edited by DuncanM on Thursday 11th April 16:43

[renrut]

Probably already been mentioned before in this thread but it's important to remember and that 20->30mpg is a massive difference in fuel usage (50% further on a tank) but 50->60mpg isn't so much (20%) and now we're talking even sillier numbers on new cars 60->70mpg (16%). So saving 5 or 10 mpg is relative to what you're getting now. If you drive a V12 jag then +5mpg would save a huge amount of money over 10k miles.

[Rick_1138]

This is my current thoughts as i am moving from a 2.0tdi giving about 40-45mpg, to either a 350z or a 2.0 TFSI TT, (25mpg or 30mpg)

So either way i will notice a bigger drain, but the big change will be from a 35 mile commute a day to a 70 mile one, so i am going less fuel efficient and more distance..hmmm not sure i am playing the game properly!

However i want something fun before wedding chains and kids!

Besides if i change cars i can wipe out my debt (barring the car loan obviously) so i end up saving some £250 a month so fuel increase still leaves me up

[DuncanM]

Rick_1138 said:

This is my current thoughts as i am moving from a 2.0tdi giving about 40-45mpg, to either a 350z or a 2.0 TFSI TT, (25mpg or 30mpg)

So either way i will notice a bigger drain, but the big change will be from a 35 mile commute a day to a 70 mile one, so i am going less fuel efficient and more distance..hmmm not sure i am playing the game properly!

However i want something fun before wedding chains and kids!

Besides if i change cars i can wipe out my debt (barring the car loan obviously) so i end up saving some £250 a month so fuel increase still leaves me up

This bit worries me, I want at least 50mpg on a run if I am going to put up with the possible/likely running costs of a new diesel engined car.

[TameRacingDriver]

Rick_1138 said:

This is my current thoughts as i am moving from a 2.0tdi giving about 40-45mpg, to either a 350z or a 2.0 TFSI TT, (25mpg or 30mpg)

So either way i will notice a bigger drain, but the big change will be from a 35 mile commute a day to a 70 mile one, so i am going less fuel efficient and more distance..hmmm not sure i am playing the game properly!

However i want something fun before wedding chains and kids!

Besides if i change cars i can wipe out my debt (barring the car loan obviously) so i end up saving some £250 a month so fuel increase still leaves me up

[Shameless plug] If you want a cheap 350Z (convertible), give me a shout

[k-ink]

I'm going to buy a V8 petrol with mid 25mpg. The bonus will come in the form of no turbos, water pump, direct injection etc etc going pop costing thosands out of the blue. I'd far rather pay a little more reguarly than be stung for thousands with no notice.

[DuncanM]

k-ink said:

I'm going to buy a V8 petrol with mid 25mpg. The bonus will come in the form of no turbos, water pump, direct injection etc etc going pop costing thosands out of the blue. I'd far rather pay a little more reguarly than be stung for thousands with no notice.

I think this is the crux of the debate.

People on average very much do care about weekly/monthly costs and can see the savings of running a diesel.

They tend to forget about the £500+ DMF/DPF/Turbo issues that can bite at anytime.

I already feel like I've made a mistake, we'll see.

[talksthetalk]

DuncanM said:

This bit worries me, I want at least 50mpg on a run if I am going to put up with the possible/likely running costs of a new diesel engined car.

A 2.0 TDI will achieve this, out of the box (ok, maybe not out of the box, once it is run in a bit)and more. But only if you drive it like you want it to do this. If you drive around "progressively", thinking the economy will just look after itself, it probably won't. Expect more like 42-45.

[daemon]

I think people now believe diesel is the default choice to the point they dont even consider petrol.

A guy in work was in the market for a 2011 Zafira. They do 9,000 miles a year tops in the car and they keep a car basically until its fit for scrap.

Cheapest one locally (northern ireland) with reasonable miles was £10,000+. If he had went to the mainland, cheapest one nationally on autotrader with reasonably miles was £8695 at a dont-dare-ask-for-discount-or-customer-service car supermarket.

I got him a 1.8 petrol with 28K miles for £6700. The 1.8 will just go and go, whereas the diesel will inevitably need a flywheel at 80K miles, a DPF maybe even before then, and probably a turbo at 100K.

The diesel variant just didnt stack up but he hadnt even considered a petrol

[k-ink]

Another thing in my mind... I know one day we will all be in electric vehicles. But I will take some pleasure looking back being able to say "I never owned a diesel".

[daemon]

k-ink said:

Another thing in my mind... I know one day we will all be in electric vehicles. But I will take some pleasure looking back being able to say "I never owned a diesel".

I think that there are some exceptional diesel cars out there, however the all round ownership proposition would put me off buying one, unless it was brand new.

[Slow]

I owned a diesel as a first car due to cheaper insurance.

Nothing to do with the fuel costs.