RE: Lotus Exige Sport 350: Driven

[CABC]

DonkeyApple said:

I agree. The core trouble with V6s is that they are usually built to emulate a big, lazyish V8 but cheaper.

Jag and Merc, who brought out their V6s as a cheap, quick fix for both cheaper and lower emissions are apparently going to be replacing them with the more refined solution of inline 6. If true then it'll probably mean it's just the blue collar end still building V6s.

The small V8s that would fit I suspect are far too expensive. So maybe the solution is for Lotus to revert to their past and use smaller engines. It is after all, as you say, exactly what the mainstream manufacturers are doing. They are Lotusising their product lines making their cars lighter, better handling and with smaller engines?

'tis a fair point. With daily cars becoming more disconnected maybe Lotus should focus on the second car/ toy market as middle managers seek weekend thrills. That sector may actually grow. And with increasing taxes second cars should be lighter, more fun. Heavy 6's were pushing into the upmarket daily segment. They should dominate the upmarket toy segment and move into style-crossovers overseas. And of course EV toys.

[DonkeyApple]

zebra said:

Lotus fan? I do not think you are. Here's a proper Lotus fan; all of the following represent value for money, performance and fun and they have all been owned by me......

Hmm. Why no Evora or classics?

Don't see how you can claim to be a 'real' fan.

I mean a 'real' fan would have a wider and better collection wouldn't they. A real fan that is.

Can you honestly say your effort at fandom is a bit half arsed?

What about merchandising? How much of that is needed to be a real fan? Maybe you could post some examples of merchandising you own that guarantee real fan status?

Or, you could take a break from being a bit of a hysterical girl and actually say why you think the Toyota V6 is absolutely fine for Lotus going forward into the future? As I said above, this is a discussion and I'd be interested in hearing contra views to mine.

[DonkeyApple]

zebra said:

Donkey Apple _ I notice you are responding to everyone else's post but mine. There are well over 10 points I have put to you that you have ignored. In fact you keep banging on with the same rhetoric and no substance to your side of the discussion.

Sorry, I must have missed your adult responses in amongst your fan rantings. I apologise.

[CABC]

DonkeyApple said:

Hmm. Why no Evora or classics?

Don't see how you can claim to be a 'real' fan.

I mean a 'real' fan would have a wider and better collection wouldn't they. A real fan that is.

Can you honestly say your effort at fandom is a bit half arsed?

What about merchandising? How much of that is needed to be a real fan? Maybe you could post some examples of merchandising you own that guarantee real fan status?

Or, you could take a break from being a bit of a hysterical girl and actually say why you think the Toyota V6 is absolutely fine for Lotus going forward into the future? As I said above, this is a discussion and I'd be interested in hearing contra views to mine.

[zebra]

CABC said:

'tis a fair point. With daily cars becoming more disconnected maybe Lotus should focus on the second car/ toy market as middle managers seek weekend thrills. That sector may actually grow. And with increasing taxes second cars should be lighter, more fun. Heavy 6's were pushing into the upmarket daily segment. They should dominate the upmarket toy segment and move into style-crossovers overseas. And of course EV toys.

Trouble is that the V6 Exige has become the best seller. Most people with Elise and older S2 Exiges are trading up to the V6.

I'm sure Lotus will continue to adapt and when the time comes they'll take a 4-pot with FI but at the moment they do not need to.

[DonkeyApple]

CABC said:

Sorry.

Just being facetious.

[otolith]

The general movement of the competition to four cylinders will at least help cement the Evora's market position - and give the Exige a more charismatic engine than the competition.

[Zyp]

Donkey

I think the V6 is fine for Lotus going forward.
How far into the future do you want to go though?
1 year, 3, 20?

We're (you're) surmising that Lotus *can* use another engine - for all we know, and no doubt you know the answer to this, Lotus may have a contract with Toyota for the foreseeable.

If, for arguments sake, Lotus could use any engine they want right now, which one do you think they should use and why?

[zebra]

DonkeyApple said:

Hmm. Why no Evora or classics?

Don't see how you can claim to be a 'real' fan.

I mean a 'real' fan would have a wider and better collection wouldn't they. A real fan that is.

Can you honestly say your effort at fandom is a bit half arsed?

What about merchandising? How much of that is needed to be a real fan? Maybe you could post some examples of merchandising you own that guarantee real fan status?

Or, you could take a break from being a bit of a hysterical girl and actually say why you think the Toyota V6 is absolutely fine for Lotus going forward into the future? As I said above, this is a discussion and I'd be interested in hearing contra views to mine.

My old man had a series of 7's, an Eclat, an Elite and an Esprit and I thoroughly enjoyed those.

As for my purchases, I invested into a business and decided to forgo toys for a while. A soon as I could afford it I went into the toy market with Lotus.

Would have loved some other cars but needs must.

Of course, all that is irrelevant as your 'comeback' is lame in not answering any other points I have made.

[zebra]

DonkeyApple said:

Sorry, I must have missed your adult responses in amongst your fan rantings. I apologise.

Go and have a look then instead of

a. being immature
b. avoiding valid comments

[CABC]

zebra said:

Trouble is that the V6 Exige has become the best seller. Most people with Elise and older S2 Exiges are trading up to the V6.

I'm sure Lotus will continue to adapt and when the time comes they'll take a 4-pot with FI but at the moment they do not need to.

no no....
DA has a point and is getting under your skin!!
People like you are upgrading - longer term owners getting a power fix in a "non-4 pot".
Plus there's renewed interest from the non-Lotus fraternity, which is, frankly, most people.
But the V6 is a heavy car. I'm sure Gales is fully aware and has plans, he's smart. V6 is a stop-gap.
Lotus needs to be more Lotus - this is their time. Wait too long and they'll get caught out again.
Time to lead, not follow.
Future will be interiors that are more acceptable and lower weight like it used to be. And that's most likely 3, 4 cyl or EV.
Honestly, which is you favourite? the 111s?

[DonkeyApple]

zebra said:

DonkeyApple said:

Sorry, I must have missed your adult responses in amongst your fan rantings. I apologise.

Go and have a look then instead of

a. being immature
b. avoiding valid comments

Zebra, you opened by being offensive and then adopting some playground argument as to why you are a fan etc. So please don't get arsey if your posts are not then responded to or replied to in a facetious manner.

I have not seen any valid comments from you because your opening remarks made it very clear I should waste my time reading your input. You were just ignored. Get over it. Entirely your fault.

However, if you feel you did make valid points the. I would be very keep to wipe the slate clean and to read them. I will leave it up to you to decide as to whether you do so.

[zebra]

CABC said:

no no....
DA has a point and is getting under your skin!!
People like you are upgrading - longer term owners getting a power fix in a "non-4pot".
Plus there's renewed interest from the non-Lotus fraternity, which is, frankly, most people.
But the V6 is a heavy car. I'm sure Gales is fully aware and has plans, he's smart. V6 is a stop-gap.
Lotus needs to be more Lotus - this is there time. Wait too long and they'll get caught out again.
Time to lead, not follow.
Future will be interiors that are more acceptable and lower weight like it used to be. And that's most likely 3, 4 cyl or EV.
Honestly, which is you favourite? the 111s?

Their product has evolved and improved generally although I accept the K-series was great for the 111s but they couldn't sell it State Side.

As for my favourite _ easily the V6 CUP.

I would say the NA Toyota Elises I've had have not bettered the 111s but the S2 Exige S was better for me.

You're right; the V6 will be a stop gap but it serves its purpose more than adequately at the moment. When the time comes they'll shift.

[zebra]

DonkeyApple said:

Zebra, you opened by being offensive and then adopting some playground argument as to why you are a fan etc. So please don't get arsey if your posts are not then responded to or replied to in a facetious manner.

I have not seen any valid comments from you because your opening remarks made it very clear I should waste my time reading your input. You were just ignored. Get over it. Entirely your fault.

However, if you feel you did make valid points the. I would be very keep to wipe the slate clean and to read them. I will leave it up to you to decide as to whether you do so.

Either go and read my earlier comments or don't [over last few pages at least] but don't try and take some moral high ground for sh*ts and giggles.

[DonkeyApple]

CABC said:

'tis a fair point. With daily cars becoming more disconnected maybe Lotus should focus on the second car/ toy market as middle managers seek weekend thrills. That sector may actually grow. And with increasing taxes second cars should be lighter, more fun. Heavy 6's were pushing into the upmarket daily segment. They should dominate the upmarket toy segment and move into style-crossovers overseas. And of course EV toys.

There is an uncomfortable aspect that just as Lotus have given in on their keep it light, small and cheap and started joining in the decade long mainstream arms race that has seen sports cars get heavier, bigger and more expensive the very same manufacturers in 2015 have announced plans to do the opposite and start putting smaller engines into lighter cars.

You are sometimes left feeling that Lotus are damned whatever they do but I can't help thinking that as the number of pots comes down in the mainstream cars like Porsches then this would hopefully play into the hands of a firm that from inception has been the absolute King of this game.

We are entering a period for the mainstream market where the Lotus brand and ethos should really benefit them.

[Impasse]

They stopped making small light cheap cars in the mid 70s and only started remanufacturing them again some twenty years later. It's only today that some think the classic Elan or Elise are the only cars they've ever made.

[kambites]

zebra said:

When the time comes they'll shift.

Unfortunately, it'll almost certain be to a turbocharged four-pot.

[otolith]

Impasse said:

They stopped making small light cheap cars in the mid 70s and only started remanufacturing them again some twenty years later. It's only today that some think the classic Elan or Elise are the only cars they've ever made.

Were they ever really cheap?

[CABC]

DonkeyApple said:

There is an uncomfortable aspect that just as Lotus have given in on their keep it light, small and cheap and started joining in the decade long mainstream arms race that has seen sports cars get heavier, bigger and more expensive the very same manufacturers in 2015 have announced plans to do the opposite and start putting smaller engines into lighter cars.

You are sometimes left feeling that Lotus are damned whatever they do but I can't help thinking that as the number of pots comes down in the mainstream cars like Porsches then this would hopefully play into the hands of a firm that from inception has been the absolute King of this game.

We are entering a period for the mainstream market where the Lotus brand and ethos should really benefit them.

now we're posting coherent sense. Stop winding people up!
this is spot on. The V6 was the right move and is working. I'm sure (hope?) that Gales is fully aware and thinking ahead. He's a commercial car man after all. The downsizing game is starting as Lotus is getting PR again, so hopefully they can build into that. As you probably know, once people actually test drive a Lotus they often convert...
Gales needs to execute and then as success starts he'll need to ask for more cash with a well thought through development plan.
Still not sure who develops the engine though? But surely Toyota will have some interesting units in the pipeline.
I'm still not sure how much Lotus can realistically do to a crate engine other than a plastic cover in today's approval climate.

[kambites]

otolith said:

Impasse said:

They stopped making small light cheap cars in the mid 70s and only started remanufacturing them again some twenty years later. It's only today that some think the classic Elan or Elise are the only cars they've ever made.

Were they ever really cheap?

Not particularly, for the most part. The Exige V6 today probably costs about the same as the baby Elan Sprint did in its day, when compared to like competition.