Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Poll: Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Total Members Polled: 461
Discussion
Ares said:
You value you time at more than that? If a fill up is £75, thats £100/hr or £876,000 per year.
Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
I get the feeling that what he means is that he values his time doing various other things as apposed to mulling over a hypothetical scenario, such as this one, that will never become a reality. Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
If this is the case, i actually find it extremely ironic that he still managed to spend the time making such a post on here in the first place.
culpz said:
Ares said:
You value you time at more than that? If a fill up is £75, thats £100/hr or £876,000 per year.
Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
I get the feeling that what he means is that he values his time doing various other things as apposed to mulling over a hypothetical scenario, such as this one, that will never become a reality. Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
If this is the case, i actually find it extremely ironic that he still managed to spend the time making such a post on here in the first place.
I interviewed a guy yesterday, whilst I interviewed him, his Tesla Model X was charged to 100%. He's not going to get the job, but at least it wasn't a wasted hour for him ;-)
Ares said:
culpz said:
Ares said:
You value you time at more than that? If a fill up is £75, thats £100/hr or £876,000 per year.
Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
I get the feeling that what he means is that he values his time doing various other things as apposed to mulling over a hypothetical scenario, such as this one, that will never become a reality. Your time is more valuable? Even if it's done while you are asleep? Or drinking coffee? Or sat on your laptop working?
If this is the case, i actually find it extremely ironic that he still managed to spend the time making such a post on here in the first place.
I interviewed a guy yesterday, whilst I interviewed him, his Tesla Model X was charged to 100%. He's not going to get the job, but at least it wasn't a wasted hour for him ;-)
The hypothetical scenario being; "Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?". Filling up meaning petrol/diesel meaning an ICE and not charging up and EV.
austinsmirk said:
To put another slant on this, its not about wasting your time, filling an ICE or EV up- but how about this view ?
The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
So what you are saying is, I am working for an extra 2 weeks a year just to avoid driving an electric car? The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
Sounds like the 2 best weeks of the year, personally
And no, I wouldn't want to fill up for free if it took me 45 minutes. That just sounds like an enormous pain in the arse - much like electric cars in general.
culpz said:
I think something may have gotten lost in translation here. I was answering the OP's question/poll at hand, so nothing to do with charging up electric vehicles.
The hypothetical scenario being; "Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?". Filling up meaning petrol/diesel meaning an ICE and not charging up and EV.
Thats IS what the OP was inferring The hypothetical scenario being; "Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?". Filling up meaning petrol/diesel meaning an ICE and not charging up and EV.
Ares said:
culpz said:
I think something may have gotten lost in translation here. I was answering the OP's question/poll at hand, so nothing to do with charging up electric vehicles.
The hypothetical scenario being; "Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?". Filling up meaning petrol/diesel meaning an ICE and not charging up and EV.
Thats IS what the OP was inferring The hypothetical scenario being; "Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?". Filling up meaning petrol/diesel meaning an ICE and not charging up and EV.
counterofbeans said:
It's a not-very-cunningly disguised EV recharge question.
counterofbeans described it exactly as i see it 
SimonYorkshire said:
Not much more of an issue storing H at 700 bar than storing CNG,
Physics Fail 1SimonYorkshire said:
I could convert any carb or port injected ice engine to run on H using most of the same components I'd use to convert a carb/port injection ice engine to LPG or CNG
Physics Fail 2(Hint: Google "high pressure hydrogen embrittlement" for why you can't actually do either of those things)
How does the situation look after government have applied road duty to electricity used to charge an EV...
Now you have to wait 45 minutes to 'fill' your car and it still costs you nearly as much as filling an ice car with petrol. Except your EV only has half the range of your old petrol car, so you'll have to wait 45 minutes to fill again in half the miles you could have covered between refuelling your ice car in 3 minutes.
Doubtful government will start to charge duty on charging electricity until EVs become a significant fraction of vehicles on the road... I.e. You can enjoy cheaper fuel in an EV while they are still a niche (which is what I keep implying), but while EVs are new enough and small enough in number to be a niche they will still be expensive to buy... What you saved on fuel costs you might well spend on buying the car and on depreciation. Devaluation even.. If better batteries are invented just after you bought an EV, your EV is devalued.
Do you buy an EV and hope better batteries will come along (so you can have better range and faster charging), or do you buy an EV and hope better batteries continue not to be available (maybe not even possible)?
We keep talking about charging an EV in 45 minutes and keep talking about free charging. What EVs can be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes and where can they be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes? At these locations, can 2, 5, 10, 20 EVs be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes at the same time, or how are the figures affected if those numbers (respectively) of EVs attempt to do so?
Now you have to wait 45 minutes to 'fill' your car and it still costs you nearly as much as filling an ice car with petrol. Except your EV only has half the range of your old petrol car, so you'll have to wait 45 minutes to fill again in half the miles you could have covered between refuelling your ice car in 3 minutes.
Doubtful government will start to charge duty on charging electricity until EVs become a significant fraction of vehicles on the road... I.e. You can enjoy cheaper fuel in an EV while they are still a niche (which is what I keep implying), but while EVs are new enough and small enough in number to be a niche they will still be expensive to buy... What you saved on fuel costs you might well spend on buying the car and on depreciation. Devaluation even.. If better batteries are invented just after you bought an EV, your EV is devalued.
Do you buy an EV and hope better batteries will come along (so you can have better range and faster charging), or do you buy an EV and hope better batteries continue not to be available (maybe not even possible)?
We keep talking about charging an EV in 45 minutes and keep talking about free charging. What EVs can be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes and where can they be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes? At these locations, can 2, 5, 10, 20 EVs be charged to 200 mile range in 45 minutes at the same time, or how are the figures affected if those numbers (respectively) of EVs attempt to do so?
Max_Torque said:
SimonYorkshire said:
Not much more of an issue storing H at 700 bar than storing CNG,
Physics Fail 1SimonYorkshire said:
I could convert any carb or port injected ice engine to run on H using most of the same components I'd use to convert a carb/port injection ice engine to LPG or CNG
Physics Fail 2(Hint: Google "high pressure hydrogen embrittlement" for why you can't actually do either of those things)
I'm sure you'll have known hydrogen tanks are available for cars! I did say I would need to fit a different reducer, tank and piping to make an ice car run on hydrogen.
SimonYorkshire said:
How does the situation look after government have applied road duty to electricity used to charge an EV...
It doesn't because they wont because they aren't entirely stupid. When the government needs to raise more duty from personal road transport because of falling petrol/diesel sales it will not be by introducing further taxes on EV "fuel".SimonYorkshire said:
Stuff
Unknown depreciation/devaluation: 95% of new cars are bought on finance with known costs at the outset, why will that change with EVs?Hydrogen embrittlement probably applies to the engine internals as much as the fuel system, did you consider that?
How do you implement regenerative braking to a hydrogen powered vehicle? Of course I know the answer to that one, you add a motor, power converter and a battery.
All of your epiphanies have been considered and analysed to death by manufacturers and authorities over the last few decades. The BEV won, its game over Simon.
kambites said:
SimonYorkshire said:
How does the situation look after government have applied road duty to electricity used to charge an EV...
It doesn't because they wont because they aren't entirely stupid. When the government needs to raise more duty from personal road transport because of falling petrol/diesel sales it will not be by introducing further taxes on EV "fuel".SimonYorkshire said:
kambites said:
SimonYorkshire said:
How does the situation look after government have applied road duty to electricity used to charge an EV...
It doesn't because they wont because they aren't entirely stupid. When the government needs to raise more duty from personal road transport because of falling petrol/diesel sales it will not be by introducing further taxes on EV "fuel".SimonYorkshire said:
Really? How do you know? If that is true, how will the revenue currently raised from duty on ice fuels be raised then?
Why does it matter so much?How much of the present fuel duty is spent back on transportation?
Why can't it be raised elsewhere from other sources, it all goes into the same pot and the end effect on the average tax payer is the same.
SimonYorkshire said:
Really? How do you know? If that is true, how will the revenue currently raised from duty on ice fuels be raised then?
I know becaue the government aren't stupid enough to do it. They have a legal requirement to bring down CO2 emissions so they cannot afford to remove the delta in running costs between fossil fuel powered vehicles and EVs. My guess is blanket road charging.
TA14 said:
SimonYorkshire said:
kambites said:
SimonYorkshire said:
How does the situation look after government have applied road duty to electricity used to charge an EV...
It doesn't because they wont because they aren't entirely stupid. When the government needs to raise more duty from personal road transport because of falling petrol/diesel sales it will not be by introducing further taxes on EV "fuel".
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