RE: Diesel myths debunked
Discussion
Probably worth me commenting here, I run a diesel, my wifes car is petrol.
I have an E320CDi.. that's a Merc with a straight 6 turbo diesel with common rail high pressure injectors.
If I had to spend all day stuck in urban traffic then a petrol would win, but I don't. I have a 55 mile commute with only 2 traffic lights and 4 roundabouts for the whole route, the rest is twisty A and B roads and dual carriage way.
Comparing this with the E320 petrol, at cruise or anything above 40 or so it is quieter than the petrol due to it being so low revving.
Overtaking is a breeze with the vehicle power to weight being over 100hp/ton and the fast response electronic autobox.
Torque is immense (480Nm), the only engine in the range with more torque is the 5.5litre AMG.
What would get me out of it for a petrol?.. Fun at the weekend (currently hunting a top condition SL R129) or petrol being conciderably cheaper than diesel.
Oh and reliability.. It's now got 194k miles on the clock and engine has only had to have one glowplug changed and the regular oil changes.. NOTHING else for the engine in all that time. (it's even on the factory fitted long life MB coolant, MB independant checked it recently and it's still good!) Even the oil lasts 18000 miles between changes (fully synthetic).
If USA diesel is 20% more than petrol then anyone stateside would be foolish to run diesel without some sort of tax break.
Derek
I have an E320CDi.. that's a Merc with a straight 6 turbo diesel with common rail high pressure injectors.
If I had to spend all day stuck in urban traffic then a petrol would win, but I don't. I have a 55 mile commute with only 2 traffic lights and 4 roundabouts for the whole route, the rest is twisty A and B roads and dual carriage way.
Comparing this with the E320 petrol, at cruise or anything above 40 or so it is quieter than the petrol due to it being so low revving.
Overtaking is a breeze with the vehicle power to weight being over 100hp/ton and the fast response electronic autobox.
Torque is immense (480Nm), the only engine in the range with more torque is the 5.5litre AMG.
What would get me out of it for a petrol?.. Fun at the weekend (currently hunting a top condition SL R129) or petrol being conciderably cheaper than diesel.
Oh and reliability.. It's now got 194k miles on the clock and engine has only had to have one glowplug changed and the regular oil changes.. NOTHING else for the engine in all that time. (it's even on the factory fitted long life MB coolant, MB independant checked it recently and it's still good!) Even the oil lasts 18000 miles between changes (fully synthetic).
If USA diesel is 20% more than petrol then anyone stateside would be foolish to run diesel without some sort of tax break.
Derek
I run a diesel ute, tractor & a couple of pumps.
There is no way I'd have a diesel car, until they get the stuff right.
When ever you get within about 5 yards of the stuff, it immediately leaps onto your hands, where it sits stinking. It takes at least half a dozen scrubbing of your hands to get the miserable stuff off. Until you do it is impossible to enjoy any food or drink.
Once they get rid of that stink, they can call me, & I might reconsider.
There is no way I'd have a diesel car, until they get the stuff right.
When ever you get within about 5 yards of the stuff, it immediately leaps onto your hands, where it sits stinking. It takes at least half a dozen scrubbing of your hands to get the miserable stuff off. Until you do it is impossible to enjoy any food or drink.
Once they get rid of that stink, they can call me, & I might reconsider.
rfdesigner said:
depends on the gear :-)
Exactly, which is why quoting flywheel torque figures as if the fact only an AMG has more torque means anything at all, is fairly pointless. The 320 petrol for example has less flywheel torque because it revs higher and therefore can put similar torque onto the tarmac without needing to develop huge numbers at the fly.It's as daft as the 'A Skoda Fabia 1.9 TDI has more torque than a Porsche Boxster!!!!' comparisons.
Not that 194k from an E320 CDI (Have you done all 194k in it?) without a single failure is anything other than very impressive, mind. Must be feeling a bit tired on its original suspension though.
Hasbeen said:
I run a diesel ute, tractor & a couple of pumps.
There is no way I'd have a diesel car, until they get the stuff right.
When ever you get within about 5 yards of the stuff, it immediately leaps onto your hands, where it sits stinking. It takes at least half a dozen scrubbing of your hands to get the miserable stuff off. Until you do it is impossible to enjoy any food or drink.
Once they get rid of that stink, they can call me, & I might reconsider.
No, it's ok now, they've invented gloves. They're brilliant. There is no way I'd have a diesel car, until they get the stuff right.
When ever you get within about 5 yards of the stuff, it immediately leaps onto your hands, where it sits stinking. It takes at least half a dozen scrubbing of your hands to get the miserable stuff off. Until you do it is impossible to enjoy any food or drink.
Once they get rid of that stink, they can call me, & I might reconsider.
There is one reason why Torque is of value...
Most engines don't do too well at very low revs due to excessive bearing wear, so there is a lower limit. Therefor most engines will end up being run around 1500 rpm or so for a significant part of their life as this is the 'relaxed/efficient' engine speed for the given road speed (unless the car sits on a track of the motorway for it's whole life). At 1500rpm a high torque equates to responsive without having to change gear, so long as the torque is still there at around 1500rpm of course.
Of course on a track then there is no difference.
Derek
Most engines don't do too well at very low revs due to excessive bearing wear, so there is a lower limit. Therefor most engines will end up being run around 1500 rpm or so for a significant part of their life as this is the 'relaxed/efficient' engine speed for the given road speed (unless the car sits on a track of the motorway for it's whole life). At 1500rpm a high torque equates to responsive without having to change gear, so long as the torque is still there at around 1500rpm of course.
Of course on a track then there is no difference.
Derek
Fox- said:
Not that 194k from an E320 CDI (Have you done all 194k in it?) without a single failure is anything other than very impressive, mind. Must be feeling a bit tired on its original suspension though.
I've done the last 110,000 miles, and the MB history I got out of MB (they record everything) said nothing about any thing new needing adding on.The suspension is getting old. So old in fact that the shocks and springs are all new, as are the anti-roll bar drop links and bushes (replaced twice now) and I've got the whishbone bushes going now, the car is not some miracle, but the engine is solid.
ADM06 said:
daemon said:
StottyZr said:
ADM06 said:
Indeed it did achieve the manufacturers figure, but it's not one of these new fangled quick diesels
Possibly heirin lies the issue, the fangled fast diesels have the ability to burn copious amounts of diesel. This is required to make lots of power, theres no way around it unfortunately. Although if you drive the new fangle diesels very gently and never use the power, they are extremely frugal. Maybe downhill with a tailwind for a short period of time, but not over the course of regular driving over a tank of fuel.
I've an e60 530i at the minute and when driven very easy its doing 26mpg tops, and it 'just' has 220ish BHP
daemon said:
I've an e60 530i at the minute and when driven very easy its doing 26mpg tops, and it 'just' has 220ish BHP
How are you driving it?! Mine is on 22mpg composed entirely of short trips around town of no more than 5 miles each from cold at the moment, which I'd imagine is far more town biased than yours.If I drive it very easy out of town it's way over 30. It is, however, a manual.
Fox- said:
daemon said:
I've an e60 530i at the minute and when driven very easy its doing 26mpg tops, and it 'just' has 220ish BHP
How are you driving it?! Mine is on 22mpg composed entirely of short trips around town of no more than 5 miles each from cold at the moment, which I'd imagine is far more town biased than yours.If I drive it very easy out of town it's way over 30. It is, however, a manual.
Fox- said:
daemon said:
I've an e60 530i at the minute and when driven very easy its doing 26mpg tops, and it 'just' has 220ish BHP
How are you driving it?! Mine is on 22mpg composed entirely of short trips around town of no more than 5 miles each from cold at the moment, which I'd imagine is far more town biased than yours.If I drive it very easy out of town it's way over 30. It is, however, a manual.
Also, mines an auto which doesnt help and also an e60 so probably heavier than your more nimble e39.
Lost soul said:
Fox- said:
daemon said:
I've an e60 530i at the minute and when driven very easy its doing 26mpg tops, and it 'just' has 220ish BHP
How are you driving it?! Mine is on 22mpg composed entirely of short trips around town of no more than 5 miles each from cold at the moment, which I'd imagine is far more town biased than yours.If I drive it very easy out of town it's way over 30. It is, however, a manual.
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