Tyres. Do you go premium?

Tyres. Do you go premium?

Author
Discussion

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

256 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Captain Muppet said:
How do you feel about BMW (to pick a company at random) fitting worse tyres to, say, a 316 than an M3? 316 is just as likely to have to e-stop to avoid a child, yet has less grip. Irresponsible or just another point in the Venn diagram of acceptable tyre compromise?
Surely even base spec. BMW's come with premium branded tyres?

Fox-

13,256 posts

247 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
Surely even base spec. BMW's come with premium branded tyres?
Quite, his point is rather odd. Even a 116i is supplied new on Bridgestone or Continental tyres.

Just because you beleive Wan Li tyres are unsuitable for use in the UK doesn't automatically mean you think nothing short of a Pilot Super Sport or Continental SportConact 5P is acceptable.

80sboy

452 posts

158 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
If I shop around I can buy a set of OEM runflats for about £900. There is no way I'm spending near on a grand for a set of tyres, which really, are crap.

Now I definitely do not scrimp with tyres but there is a balance between sensible outlay and performance.

I've had Falken FK452 which were miles better than the OEM Bridgestone runflats they replaced, in every way. They also lasted for 15000 miles on the rear which is pretty good. The only negative is that they got a little slippery in the wet towards the end of their life.

I'm now on Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's, which are a fantastic tyre, especially in this wet weather we've been having - grip is phenomenal. A better tyre than the Falken's, but not by much.

A set of either Falkens or Vredesteins would set me back around £500 vs £900 OEM or £700-900 for a "premium" Bridgestone or similar.

You get plenty of tyre snobs who slag off brands such as Falkens and Vredesteins; usually these people haven't tried either. The people who have simply rave about them. The Vredesteins came second in an Evo tyre test, amongst other much more expensive premium brands.

I'm not a sucker for buying "premium" brands. I buy based on professional and individual buyer reviews. So far I haven't gone wrong. Saying all of that, I stay well clear of Chinese tyres such as "Sunnyride" or whatever. The Chinese ethos or profit:quality surrounding mass produce products does not install confidence. Usually reviews highlight this!

Edited by 80sboy on Tuesday 17th July 12:52

Blackpuddin

16,679 posts

206 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
jon- said:
Blackpuddin said:
This is the way to do it. These second tier tyres are generally just as good as the premium ones, according to the German mags who test them anyway, and they don't mess around. They're basically the same as I understand it, just cheaper. German review for my BM's 225/45 x 17s rates Barums! Who would have thought that a few years back.
Erm...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Barum/Bravuris-2...

8th of 9.
9th of 15.
10th of 15.

The only mid range brands which are consistently objectively getting close to the premiums are Hankook, and now Nokian. Fulda aren't too bad either, but the likes of Falken and Kumho rarely trouble the big 6.
These are reader reviews, with owners justifying their purchases and parading their brand snobbery. There's a big difference between these and objective, practical tests carried out by respected German consumer magazines.

Fox-

13,256 posts

247 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
The Vreds are excellent tyres I agree but its interesting you claim to rely on professional reviews. Can you show me a single professional review which rated the Falkens highly?

The only one I've seen put them 25th in wet braking. Ouch. And that was the new improved 30% better 452. I'm convinced the 452 is the most internet-hyped tyre in the universe, ever.

stuartmmcfc

8,671 posts

193 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Countdown said:
The MOST important part of the car is the nut behind the steering wheel.

wink
someone idiot told me that the "nut behind the steering wheel" was the most dangerous part of the car.
So I took it off and i then i had all sorts of problems.

jon-

16,511 posts

217 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Blackpuddin said:
jon- said:
Blackpuddin said:
This is the way to do it. These second tier tyres are generally just as good as the premium ones, according to the German mags who test them anyway, and they don't mess around. They're basically the same as I understand it, just cheaper. German review for my BM's 225/45 x 17s rates Barums! Who would have thought that a few years back.
Erm...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Barum/Bravuris-2...

8th of 9.
9th of 15.
10th of 15.

The only mid range brands which are consistently objectively getting close to the premiums are Hankook, and now Nokian. Fulda aren't too bad either, but the likes of Falken and Kumho rarely trouble the big 6.
These are reader reviews, with owners justifying their purchases and parading their brand snobbery. There's a big difference between these and objective, practical tests carried out by respected German consumer magazines.
I was referring to the linked objective German magazine group tests. You claimed a German mag rated the Barums for your BMW, I've not seen it outside the user reviews?!

Blackpuddin

16,679 posts

206 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Falkens on my MX-5 work perfectly well and still have 7mm+ on the front and 6mm on the rears after 11,000 miles.

Blackpuddin

16,679 posts

206 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
jon- said:
I was referring to the linked objective German magazine group tests. You claimed a German mag rated the Barums for your BMW, I've not seen it outside the user reviews?!
Not making it up, honestly, don't have time just now to find the review again, sorry.

FoundOnRoadside

436 posts

145 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Captain Muppet said:
How do you feel about BMW (to pick a company at random) fitting worse tyres to, say, a 316 than an M3? 316 is just as likely to have to e-stop to avoid a child, yet has less grip. Irresponsible or just another point in the Venn diagram of acceptable tyre compromise?
Fair point, but even a 316i come with at least 205-55/16 tyres now, which are more than adequate for stopping a car quickly. BMW still fit a premium tyre to the 316i, same as they do to the M3. It's not like they fit Michelins to the M3 and say Acceleras the 316.


Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

266 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
FoundOnRoadside said:
Captain Muppet said:
How do you feel about BMW (to pick a company at random) fitting worse tyres to, say, a 316 than an M3? 316 is just as likely to have to e-stop to avoid a child, yet has less grip. Irresponsible or just another point in the Venn diagram of acceptable tyre compromise?
Fair point, but even a 316i come with at least 205-55/16 tyres now, which are more than adequate for stopping a car quickly. BMW still fit a premium tyre to the 316i, same as they do to the M3. It's not like they fit Michelins to the M3 and say Acceleras the 316.
Ignore tyre brands and marketing for a few sentances.

316 has less grip than an M3. This is fine. No one seems to mind this.

However some aftermarket tyres have less grip than others, which is apparently instant death of the worst kind.

It seems like an inconsistent approach to available grip - either maximum grip is always good (in which case BMW are wrong) or less grip is fine for some cars. The only rational view is that tyre performance is always a compromise.

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

266 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Mr2Mike said:
Surely even base spec. BMW's come with premium branded tyres?
Quite, his point is rather odd. Even a 116i is supplied new on Bridgestone or Continental tyres.

Just because you beleive Wan Li tyres are unsuitable for use in the UK doesn't automatically mean you think nothing short of a Pilot Super Sport or Continental SportConact 5P is acceptable.
So less grip is OK as long as it's premium less grip?

>diesonP5000sandneverpostsagain<

Fox-

13,256 posts

247 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Are you suggesting a Bridgestone is as bad as a Wan Li?

0000

13,812 posts

192 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
No, he's not suggesting that at all.

Studio117

4,250 posts

192 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
My eagle f1's have only been on for 5k and have only 3mm left.

Cracking tyres though.

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

266 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Are you suggesting a Bridgestone is as bad as a Wan Li?
No.

I'm suggesting that the people who "won't compromise on tyres" are already compromising on tyres.

It's their inflexible view that I'm suggesting is badsilly, rather than any random tyre manufacturer.

[offtopic]
I have a scratch mark on the hard top of my MX5 from a delaminating rear Bridgestone, but even I wouldn't want to make sweeping generalisations about any particular brands, or "manufacturers" as we used to call them before marketing became overwhelmingly hateful
[/offtopic]

Countdown

40,124 posts

197 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Are you suggesting a Bridgestone is as bad as a Wan Li?
I think he's suggesting that, as long as you drive in accordance to the conditions, and within the capabilities of both the car and the driver, you should be Ok.

Countdown

40,124 posts

197 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Are you suggesting a Bridgestone is as bad as a Wan Li?
For arguments sake smile

Let's assume a Volvo is the safest car in the world and a Hyundai Picanto is the least safe.

Are we all being wilfully negligent by not driving Volvos all the time?

lee st

5,077 posts

166 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
It would be interesting if insurers asked what tyres you use. Think there views would favour premium brands.

007 VXR

64,187 posts

188 months

Tuesday 17th July 2012
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Fox- said:
Are you suggesting a Bridgestone is as bad as a Wan Li?
I think he's suggesting that, as long as you drive in accordance to the conditions, and within the capabilities of both the car and the driver, you should be Ok.
this, plus tyres fitted.