"You can test drive if you put a deposit down afterwards"
Discussion
gazchap said:
DonkeyApple said:
The problem is that there are two types of people who walk into your office when you are retail and this is people looking to spend money and people looking to spend time.
The job of the salesman is to as politely and quickly as possible qualify the customer.
When said person turns up to the dealership in an M5, you'd think that would help them qualify the customer pretty quickly for something like the M135i.The job of the salesman is to as politely and quickly as possible qualify the customer.
I suspect that a franchise has set a course of action to handle a sudden demand in interest for this car and your average drone isn't going to be allowed to deviate.
The deposit is obviously refundable so there's no great harm in coughing up and then making them give it back, it's just a massive fag and one that I wouldn't bother with.
I also suspect that they will be selling as many as they can get their hands on to people who just walk in and order so no need to faff about entertaining buyers who want to test the product until later in the year when the initial flurry of time wasters and walk in buyers calms down.
I'm not saying it's impressive in any way but I can see the reasoning.
DonkeyApple said:
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
The job of the salesman is to as politely and quickly as possible qualify the customer.
The reality is that the salesman who does this will categorically sell more stock even if he is slightly rude with it. It's all about time allocation.
Don't know in which economic wonderland you live, but I have yet to visit ANY dealer so busy that he has "allocate time" so carefully. A dealer who does not have time to give me a taste of his products will be indeed be allocated extra time: by me never returning. The reality is that the salesman who does this will categorically sell more stock even if he is slightly rude with it. It's all about time allocation.
Two Porsche dealers I visited: one ignored me, perhaps because I arrived in a "lowly" Golf GTI, the other offered me 2 test drives without questions or conditions. I have now just bought a brand new Boxster loaded with €20k of options... guess where?
With regard to economics, a well run business increases and decreases sales staff in line with footfall so time allocation should be pretty uniform. Akin to running more staff on a Saturday for example.
I always love the indignation in these buying threads.
As for being ignored, this boils down to whether someone has the character trait to make things happen or relies on third parties to do so. As humans we are split quite precisely in this way.
Perhaps they wanted to keep the car as a demo for people who would order a new one, so they made it difficult for people to buy that last M1 as then they wouldn't have a demo.
But as it was used they couldn't take it off stock.. Sort of thing.
Anyhow, I used to have a 135i m sport.
Boring car, you're lucky you didn't buy one.
Very fast - but about as exciting as an office desk.
But as it was used they couldn't take it off stock.. Sort of thing.
Anyhow, I used to have a 135i m sport.
Boring car, you're lucky you didn't buy one.
Very fast - but about as exciting as an office desk.
Paraicj said:
Alfahorn, the problem people are having with your point is just as simple as the point you're trying to make.
You studied Alfas, picked one you liked bought it. Well done.
What if you had never driven a Focus or Astra before, and found 2 at similar prices with similar specs and engines that you wanted to look at? You can read all about them, look at reviews of them all day and night, but as somebody who loves driving cars, you are going to want your own subjective input into their driving. If you don't test-drive both before buying one, you are doing yourself a disservice. It's very simple.
Asking for a deposit on buying the car before a test-drive is no use to a car-lover who has never driven the model before. Regardless of intention to buy, if you ave more than one model you are interested in, you should drive them yourself before you buy. It doesn't matter really if the first one is amazing, the second might be better and you don't know that until after you try both.
^^^ This. As mentioned previously on this thread my mrs is thinking about treating herself to a 'bit of luxuary' for her next car, her likes (based on looks) are the Merc C class, Merc ML (likely too big), Jag XF and Audi Q3. A totally disparate bunch of car to be honest - given she's got little interest in reading about how the cows that donated their skins were washed in crystal springs and that another criteria has to look at how her semi-mobile mother could get into the affore mentioned vehicle how is she going to check what meets her requirements without a test-drive? As an aside all the dealerships offered a test-drive and were surprised when we turned them down saying "we're not ready to buy yet so don't want to waste your time", when we are in a position to do a deal each of those will be tested over the course of a week or so and then a decison made in the comfort of our home with the folding handed over next day or so. Deposit required before a drive?? fYou studied Alfas, picked one you liked bought it. Well done.
What if you had never driven a Focus or Astra before, and found 2 at similar prices with similar specs and engines that you wanted to look at? You can read all about them, look at reviews of them all day and night, but as somebody who loves driving cars, you are going to want your own subjective input into their driving. If you don't test-drive both before buying one, you are doing yourself a disservice. It's very simple.
Asking for a deposit on buying the car before a test-drive is no use to a car-lover who has never driven the model before. Regardless of intention to buy, if you ave more than one model you are interested in, you should drive them yourself before you buy. It doesn't matter really if the first one is amazing, the second might be better and you don't know that until after you try both.
k right offmonamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
The job of the salesman is to as politely and quickly as possible qualify the customer.
The reality is that the salesman who does this will categorically sell more stock even if he is slightly rude with it. It's all about time allocation.
Don't know in which economic wonderland you live, but I have yet to visit ANY dealer so busy that he has "allocate time" so carefully. A dealer who does not have time to give me a taste of his products will be indeed be allocated extra time: by me never returning. The reality is that the salesman who does this will categorically sell more stock even if he is slightly rude with it. It's all about time allocation.
Two Porsche dealers I visited: one ignored me, perhaps because I arrived in a "lowly" Golf GTI, the other offered me 2 test drives without questions or conditions. I have now just bought a brand new Boxster loaded with €20k of options... guess where?
With regard to economics, a well run business increases and decreases sales staff in line with footfall so time allocation should be pretty uniform. Akin to running more staff on a Saturday for example.
I always love the indignation in these buying threads.
As for being ignored, this boils down to whether someone has the character trait to make things happen or relies on third parties to do so. As humans we are split quite precisely in this way.
If you are about to buy a big ticket item like a car then the negotiation is the important part, if a salesman doesn't come rushing over and fawn over you then this gives you relevent information with regards to future negotiations should you find a car that you want. I don't see it as a reason to get distressed but part of the 'game'.
Conversely it could be said that the only arrogance on display would be this attitude: 'it's not up to the customer to "earn" the salesman's attention or "make something happen".'?
irocfan said:
...and that another criteria has to look at how her semi-mobile mother could get into the affore mentioned vehicle how is she going to check what meets her requirements without a test-drive?
She could take her mother to the dealerships?In all seriousness, to properly check you could live with a car you'd need it for a few days - which is exactly why manufacturers have corporate loaners for the fleet market.
OK, most blokes would want a test drive for the heck of it, but you're not going to learn much in 10 mins of driving that you couldn't figure out by looking at, and sitting in, the car in the dealership. In my experience many women don't like driving different cars anyway so they're never going to get a feel for a car in a few mins - in fact there's every chance they'll hate it as their reference point is their current car.
Edited by Deva Link on Tuesday 15th January 11:30
Brought our Jeep from an Independent 4x4 dealer in Leek, We have done lots of looking on the net and this one caught our eye.
Call them up to view, we got there and the car was ready and waiting, as soon as we walked in and introduced ourselves he offered a drink or test drive first if we preferred.
I said, test drive first and if it drives like it looks we will have a drink whilst doing a deal.
2yrs later we still have that car.
Mother went into BMW last December just outside of Birmingham, It was snowing and she was looking of convertibles. She has already had a 1 series in the past and after looking at other models and makes wanted the 1series convertible. This dealer didnt offer a test drive (she wasnt that fussed as knew how the 2005 model she had drove), it transpired it was cheaper to buy new with low interest than 2yrs old and higher interest. So this dealer could get her into a 118 SE new, cloth interior bla bla for a monthly figure. £240 after varying deposits etc.
She called me and I said not to proceed as I knew someone at BMW Rybrook Worcester, so next week a trip over there, she gets offered a test drive in a very similar model 120 convertible as the salesman said it is a different drive to her old car and its a lot on money to spend without a drive. So test over mom is still happy. Even more so when I ended up having to drive home as she was enjoying wine on behalf of BMW as way my Mrs, In the back ground I had been emailing the to sales man (one I know person through a friend who was doing his best deal on the 118SE, the other a now good friend who wanted to get a sale at Rebrook).
So she got a 118 M sport (she isnt a fast driver so is happy with the 118), leather in auto with Sat nav for £10 a month more as Rybrook were will to increase their deposit and pull a few strings to get a sale.
Of and I blagged a ride on kids BMW for my daughter which retailed at £225 free as well.
Call them up to view, we got there and the car was ready and waiting, as soon as we walked in and introduced ourselves he offered a drink or test drive first if we preferred.
I said, test drive first and if it drives like it looks we will have a drink whilst doing a deal.
2yrs later we still have that car.
Mother went into BMW last December just outside of Birmingham, It was snowing and she was looking of convertibles. She has already had a 1 series in the past and after looking at other models and makes wanted the 1series convertible. This dealer didnt offer a test drive (she wasnt that fussed as knew how the 2005 model she had drove), it transpired it was cheaper to buy new with low interest than 2yrs old and higher interest. So this dealer could get her into a 118 SE new, cloth interior bla bla for a monthly figure. £240 after varying deposits etc.
She called me and I said not to proceed as I knew someone at BMW Rybrook Worcester, so next week a trip over there, she gets offered a test drive in a very similar model 120 convertible as the salesman said it is a different drive to her old car and its a lot on money to spend without a drive. So test over mom is still happy. Even more so when I ended up having to drive home as she was enjoying wine on behalf of BMW as way my Mrs, In the back ground I had been emailing the to sales man (one I know person through a friend who was doing his best deal on the 118SE, the other a now good friend who wanted to get a sale at Rebrook).
So she got a 118 M sport (she isnt a fast driver so is happy with the 118), leather in auto with Sat nav for £10 a month more as Rybrook were will to increase their deposit and pull a few strings to get a sale.
Of and I blagged a ride on kids BMW for my daughter which retailed at £225 free as well.
DonkeyApple said:
Why all the emotion and where's the arrogance?
If you are about to buy a big ticket item like a car then the negotiation is the important part, if a salesman doesn't come rushing over and fawn over you then this gives you relevent information with regards to future negotiations should you find a car that you want. I don't see it as a reason to get distressed but part of the 'game'.
Conversely it could be said that the only arrogance on display would be this attitude: 'it's not up to the customer to "earn" the salesman's attention or "make something happen".'?
World of difference between "fawn all over" and being ignored. Again, please don't make me have to explain this. If these clever salesmen were so busy "qualifying" me instead of helping me, how come they missed the fact that I really had €85000 to spend and was absolutely intent on purchasing a car (as I did at their competitor)? If you are about to buy a big ticket item like a car then the negotiation is the important part, if a salesman doesn't come rushing over and fawn over you then this gives you relevent information with regards to future negotiations should you find a car that you want. I don't see it as a reason to get distressed but part of the 'game'.
Conversely it could be said that the only arrogance on display would be this attitude: 'it's not up to the customer to "earn" the salesman's attention or "make something happen".'?
And you surely cannot be serious by suggesting that a customer is arrogant if he expects to receive service from a salesman.
BadBanshee said:
We'll never know. He made the choice between having a chance of a sale and definitely not making a sale.
More likely he was weighing up the chances that in the 30 mins he was indisposed with you tyre kicking and wasting fuel a serious punter may walk in, who knows if he was right or wrong. Either way he saved a couple of quid in fuel
funny thing is I'm looking to get a Dodge Challenger in 2 years time and am quite happy to buy without a test-drive (guess the rarity of them over here kinda makes my choice for me!) - that being said I walked into a Dodge dealership on my hols and wanted a look around one they offered a test drive I told them I was not going to buy and wouldn't be in a position to do so for a couple of years and their reply was "so what, get in have a drive, enjoy".... amde me even more sure that I want a Challenger
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
Why all the emotion and where's the arrogance?
If you are about to buy a big ticket item like a car then the negotiation is the important part, if a salesman doesn't come rushing over and fawn over you then this gives you relevent information with regards to future negotiations should you find a car that you want. I don't see it as a reason to get distressed but part of the 'game'.
Conversely it could be said that the only arrogance on display would be this attitude: 'it's not up to the customer to "earn" the salesman's attention or "make something happen".'?
World of difference between "fawn all over" and being ignored. Again, please don't make me have to explain this. If these clever salesmen were so busy "qualifying" me instead of helping me, how come they missed the fact that I really had €85000 to spend and was absolutely intent on purchasing a car (as I did at their competitor)? If you are about to buy a big ticket item like a car then the negotiation is the important part, if a salesman doesn't come rushing over and fawn over you then this gives you relevent information with regards to future negotiations should you find a car that you want. I don't see it as a reason to get distressed but part of the 'game'.
Conversely it could be said that the only arrogance on display would be this attitude: 'it's not up to the customer to "earn" the salesman's attention or "make something happen".'?
And you surely cannot be serious by suggesting that a customer is arrogant if he expects to receive service from a salesman.
Unless I've totally misunderstood and you went to introduce yourself and the guy blanked you to your face? In which case I can see why.
But as I said right at the outset, some people go and get what they want and others expect it to come to them. I don't see any issue in this, it's just the way it is.
DonkeyApple said:
Sorry, but I can't see why you are so uppity just because a salesman didn't come over to you? And I can't see why are being so uppity to me. You seem to be an easily distressed chap.
Unless I've totally misunderstood and you went to introduce yourself and the guy blanked you to your face? In which case I can see why.
But as I said right at the outset, some people go and get what they want and others expect it to come to them. I don't see any issue in this, it's just the way it is.
This is my last post on this conversation, as you clearly cannot stop yourself launching unnecessary, and let's face it rather childish insults (adding silly smileys does not help!). I'm sure you are a real hoot at parties, and are obviously blessed with great insight, and probably the most successful man on PH. I wish you well. Unless I've totally misunderstood and you went to introduce yourself and the guy blanked you to your face? In which case I can see why.
But as I said right at the outset, some people go and get what they want and others expect it to come to them. I don't see any issue in this, it's just the way it is.
PS you are correct in one aspect: you have indeed totally misunderstood.
monamimate said:
DonkeyApple said:
Sorry, but I can't see why you are so uppity just because a salesman didn't come over to you? And I can't see why are being so uppity to me. You seem to be an easily distressed chap.
Unless I've totally misunderstood and you went to introduce yourself and the guy blanked you to your face? In which case I can see why.
But as I said right at the outset, some people go and get what they want and others expect it to come to them. I don't see any issue in this, it's just the way it is.
This is my last post on this conversation, as you clearly cannot stop yourself launching unnecessary, and let's face it rather childish insults (adding silly smileys does not help!). I'm sure you are a real hoot at parties, and are obviously blessed with great insight, and probably the most successful man on PH. I wish you well. Unless I've totally misunderstood and you went to introduce yourself and the guy blanked you to your face? In which case I can see why.
But as I said right at the outset, some people go and get what they want and others expect it to come to them. I don't see any issue in this, it's just the way it is.
PS you are correct in one aspect: you have indeed totally misunderstood.
Greg_D said:
More likely he was weighing up the chances that in the 30 mins he was indisposed with you tyre kicking and wasting fuel a serious punter may walk in, who knows if he was right or wrong.
Either way he saved a couple of quid in fuel
Saving a few quid in fuel by refusing to offer a test drive is hardly an achievement. If I had a test drive I might have loved it and bought it. Still yet to drive a Corsa VXR and until I do I'll never buy one. By the way, all I wanted was an appointment to test drive one as he was about to close anyway.Either way he saved a couple of quid in fuel
BadBanshee said:
Greg_D said:
More likely he was weighing up the chances that in the 30 mins he was indisposed with you tyre kicking and wasting fuel a serious punter may walk in, who knows if he was right or wrong.
Either way he saved a couple of quid in fuel
Saving a few quid in fuel by refusing to offer a test drive is hardly an achievement. If I had a test drive I might have loved it and bought it. Still yet to drive a Corsa VXR and until I do I'll never buy one. By the way, all I wanted was an appointment to test drive one as he was about to close anyway.Either way he saved a couple of quid in fuel
Greg_D said:
You still haven't purchased a car of that type (you can't tell me you haven't had the opportunity to arrange a drive of a VXR or an abarth before now) so I would also call you out as a timewaster. your actions subsequently haven't supported your assertion that the chap made a mistake!!!
So, because I haven't bought a certain car yet, means I never will? That's totally illogical. If you want me to tell you that if he had given me a test drive then I would definitely have bought the car, then I can't. But I can say that I was open-minded to the idea of buying one. I wasn't time wasting. If I walked into a Bentley dealership and asked for a test drive, THAT would have been time wasting. I very much like the Corsa VXR and I may buy one yet. You can't say that in hindsight, I haven't bought a Corsa VXR since, so he made the right choice. Who knows how things could have been different after a test drive.I have since bought a 106 GTI from a priv seller (technically he was a dealer because he bought and sold a few cars as a thing on the side to his full time job). I don't know if that qualifies as the same "type" of car as the Corsa, in your eyes. Let me tell you that I had a few issues with it before I test drove it. If he had made any kind of push towards me purchasing the car before I had test driven it, or even if he was iffy about giving me a test drive, I would have ran a million miles away, because it was coupled with the issues I already had with it. In fact he was very open about giving me a test drive. I ended up buying.
Offering a test drive is an act of openness towards the customer, as well as a way of helping the customer make a more informed decision.
I've never been asked for a deposit before a test drive before, but then I haven't been near a car dealer in nearly four years. But in 2006 (23 at the time) I went into a local Ford dealer where seven months previously I had bought an ST170. I was after one of the new ST's. So I asked to speak to a salesman, one duly appeared. I explained to him that I was not going to be in a position buy it for a month or so (pay rise coming in as my contract (post apprenticeship) had just been signed) I wanted a valuation on the ST170 (I emphasised that I had bought it from that dealership in the January of that year) and to talk through the process of buying a new ST (I'd never bought a new vehicle before) I'd obviously interrupted his bacon and egg sarnie, I was fobbed off with "You can get a valuation on line for your car" plus a load of other waffle.
10 minutes later at another Ford dealer I was sat down with a coffee (ok so it was cheap Kilx machine instant stuff - but the gesture is the important thing) going through the info. There was a used 5 door on the forecourt and I chanced at getting a test drive, I got it and they got the sale. The first Friday of the following September I picked up my shiny new ST-2.
I was half tempted to go to the other dealer with it on the way home and a say something along the lines of "remember me - look at the commission you have just missed out on" but I couldn’t be bothered.
In both cases my appearance (jeans, t-shirt, fleece jacket and my DC’s – as it would be going to look at buying any car regardless of the brand) was the same as was my approach to the sales personnel one obviously took me as a time waster and the other knew a potential sale when he saw one.
I knew the car I wanted in this case but what if I’d have wanted to take a look at a Golf GTI, Astra VXR etc. I couldn’t have put a deposit on anything until I’d driven all of them, I might not have liked the way the Ford drove – I’d either have to buy it or lose a deposit, stupid system and I wouldn’t buy from a dealer that requested it.
10 minutes later at another Ford dealer I was sat down with a coffee (ok so it was cheap Kilx machine instant stuff - but the gesture is the important thing) going through the info. There was a used 5 door on the forecourt and I chanced at getting a test drive, I got it and they got the sale. The first Friday of the following September I picked up my shiny new ST-2.
I was half tempted to go to the other dealer with it on the way home and a say something along the lines of "remember me - look at the commission you have just missed out on" but I couldn’t be bothered.
In both cases my appearance (jeans, t-shirt, fleece jacket and my DC’s – as it would be going to look at buying any car regardless of the brand) was the same as was my approach to the sales personnel one obviously took me as a time waster and the other knew a potential sale when he saw one.
I knew the car I wanted in this case but what if I’d have wanted to take a look at a Golf GTI, Astra VXR etc. I couldn’t have put a deposit on anything until I’d driven all of them, I might not have liked the way the Ford drove – I’d either have to buy it or lose a deposit, stupid system and I wouldn’t buy from a dealer that requested it.
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