Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 6]
Discussion
derin100 said:
Rollcage said:
There is money to be made, for sure.
A friend of mine has a small-ish forecourt, they have probably 20 cars max at any one time. They average 3/4 cars a week, their market is between £2K and £5k roughly. He makes a pretty decent living, and has done for a while, but he's relatively unusual in that they have been trading from the same location for over 20 years, and he does actually have a decent reputation. Warrants his own cars - from each sale they put a certain sum into a warranty fund, and any remedial work needed after sale comes out of that, no questions asked. (Pretty much, at any rate)
They do their best to make sure cars are ok before sale, anything that needs doing is done - tyres, brakes, cambelts, servicing, etc. They rarely knock much, if anything off a screen price, but will spend to get a car right. All their stock is always very well presented.
Also, they are probably one of the dearest in the local area - but they have a reputation for selling decent cars, and for looking after people, which is like gold dust in the motor trade!
(When I say they - he does the buying, he has somebody that works for him, as well as a valeter/driver and his wife helps out/does the books.)
That would be the ultimate model.A friend of mine has a small-ish forecourt, they have probably 20 cars max at any one time. They average 3/4 cars a week, their market is between £2K and £5k roughly. He makes a pretty decent living, and has done for a while, but he's relatively unusual in that they have been trading from the same location for over 20 years, and he does actually have a decent reputation. Warrants his own cars - from each sale they put a certain sum into a warranty fund, and any remedial work needed after sale comes out of that, no questions asked. (Pretty much, at any rate)
They do their best to make sure cars are ok before sale, anything that needs doing is done - tyres, brakes, cambelts, servicing, etc. They rarely knock much, if anything off a screen price, but will spend to get a car right. All their stock is always very well presented.
Also, they are probably one of the dearest in the local area - but they have a reputation for selling decent cars, and for looking after people, which is like gold dust in the motor trade!
(When I say they - he does the buying, he has somebody that works for him, as well as a valeter/driver and his wife helps out/does the books.)
But I know that isn't going to be and can't be easy.
If this thread has shown anybody anything there is a market for affordable usable classics/retro cars. Surely the likes of 4 star classics must turn a decent profit?
derin, thought about detailing or pre sales prep for others selling their (personal) cars who haven't the time/skill/bother to do it themselves ... could then offer for sale as agent for %age on yr website too ... Any mileage in that sort of thing vs traditional buying and selling?
Not difficult to target & approach those trying to shift expensive but poorly prepped/advertised stuff locally I'd have thought.
Not difficult to target & approach those trying to shift expensive but poorly prepped/advertised stuff locally I'd have thought.
JoshyS said:
derin100 said:
Rollcage said:
There is money to be made, for sure.
A friend of mine has a small-ish forecourt, they have probably 20 cars max at any one time. They average 3/4 cars a week, their market is between £2K and £5k roughly. He makes a pretty decent living, and has done for a while, but he's relatively unusual in that they have been trading from the same location for over 20 years, and he does actually have a decent reputation. Warrants his own cars - from each sale they put a certain sum into a warranty fund, and any remedial work needed after sale comes out of that, no questions asked. (Pretty much, at any rate)
They do their best to make sure cars are ok before sale, anything that needs doing is done - tyres, brakes, cambelts, servicing, etc. They rarely knock much, if anything off a screen price, but will spend to get a car right. All their stock is always very well presented.
Also, they are probably one of the dearest in the local area - but they have a reputation for selling decent cars, and for looking after people, which is like gold dust in the motor trade!
(When I say they - he does the buying, he has somebody that works for him, as well as a valeter/driver and his wife helps out/does the books.)
That would be the ultimate model.A friend of mine has a small-ish forecourt, they have probably 20 cars max at any one time. They average 3/4 cars a week, their market is between £2K and £5k roughly. He makes a pretty decent living, and has done for a while, but he's relatively unusual in that they have been trading from the same location for over 20 years, and he does actually have a decent reputation. Warrants his own cars - from each sale they put a certain sum into a warranty fund, and any remedial work needed after sale comes out of that, no questions asked. (Pretty much, at any rate)
They do their best to make sure cars are ok before sale, anything that needs doing is done - tyres, brakes, cambelts, servicing, etc. They rarely knock much, if anything off a screen price, but will spend to get a car right. All their stock is always very well presented.
Also, they are probably one of the dearest in the local area - but they have a reputation for selling decent cars, and for looking after people, which is like gold dust in the motor trade!
(When I say they - he does the buying, he has somebody that works for him, as well as a valeter/driver and his wife helps out/does the books.)
But I know that isn't going to be and can't be easy.
If this thread has shown anybody anything there is a market for affordable usable classics/retro cars. Surely the likes of 4 star classics must turn a decent profit?
No real risk...no real effort. Nice.
theironduke said:
derin100 said:
harry kular said:
theironduke said:
Which Threadist swapped the 5.0 lump in his C126 for a 5.6....?
Definitely R129SL, he wrote about the swap recently.I'm sure he'll be on soon to confirm, or perhaps PM him?
Derin, Mercedes might have a vacancy for you over at the youngtimers centre when they see your past efforts!
http://newsroom.mercedes-benz-classic.com/en/vehic...
http://newsroom.mercedes-benz-classic.com/en/vehic...
harry kular said:
theironduke said:
derin100 said:
harry kular said:
theironduke said:
Which Threadist swapped the 5.0 lump in his C126 for a 5.6....?
Definitely R129SL, he wrote about the swap recently.I'm sure he'll be on soon to confirm, or perhaps PM him?
Thanks all.derin100 said:
They do. But they don't do it themselves. As I understand it they do it purely on a brokerage basis. No real input other than a storage facility, a website with cars shot on a pure white background, under blindingly white light...where just about any car can be made to look good...and price tags that implictly 'suggest' that these cars [i]must[/] be really good.
No real risk...no real effort. Nice.
That's certainly my impression of the operation, too.No real risk...no real effort. Nice.
What are you hoping to get back for your Merc then Derin? £10k spent, many man hours, etc...
4star do sell some of their own stuff too but much of it is sold on owners behalf as I understand. I must say their prep is mixed, some excellent, some very poor. They had a polo g40 recently which was awful.
Gruber on the other thread has dealt with them on a few occasions if you want some details i'm sure he'd be happy to chat with you.
KGF Classics is an interesting model, only running 2 years ish? But looking very successful, most of their stuff sells v.quickly. They have a strong social media presence.
I suspect with your existing skills Derin you will be very successful in your new venture. I have often thought a dual approach could be good. 1 business focusing on generic diesel popular stuff which should sell quick and 1 business focusing on older German stuff, both could be run in the same limited company just as different brands from different websites etc.
Gruber on the other thread has dealt with them on a few occasions if you want some details i'm sure he'd be happy to chat with you.
KGF Classics is an interesting model, only running 2 years ish? But looking very successful, most of their stuff sells v.quickly. They have a strong social media presence.
I suspect with your existing skills Derin you will be very successful in your new venture. I have often thought a dual approach could be good. 1 business focusing on generic diesel popular stuff which should sell quick and 1 business focusing on older German stuff, both could be run in the same limited company just as different brands from different websites etc.
So that might explain why this e23 (I love these but I know everyone else hates them!) is still on 4 star? http://www.4starclassics.com/BMW-E23-735i-For-Sale... I imagined it was cocooned up in their secret white walled warehouse 
richardxjr said:
derin, thought about detailing or pre sales prep for others selling their (personal) cars who haven't the time/skill/bother to do it themselves ... could then offer for sale as agent for %age on yr website too ... Any mileage in that sort of thing vs traditional buying and selling?
Not difficult to target & approach those trying to shift expensive but poorly prepped/advertised stuff locally I'd have thought.
Richard,Not difficult to target & approach those trying to shift expensive but poorly prepped/advertised stuff locally I'd have thought.
It's a good suggestion. And not one that I'd thought of in exactly those terms. However, do I see some immediate problems...and in a somewhat less formalised manner it's actually a route that I've been down before.
I'll try not to bore everyone with all of the details but...
Through the cars that I have renovated in the past I have met some really interesting and nice people. Some of whom have since become friends. The trouble really comes with people's perceptions of their own cars. We probably all like to think our prized 'classic' is actually in better nick than it really is. I'll be just as guilty of that. But I've have gathered maybe a little more insight than some, have seen truely extra-ordinarily stunningly and lovingly presented true 'concours' cars. I know that there's always going to be 'a better one' someone that someone has got no matter how hard I've tried. I've learned to live with that and to push myself as far as I'm prepared to go but accept that someone, somewhere is always going to be better.
It's all about "levels" and "degrees". But many if not the majority of people have never mused and philosophisied about their cars in these ways....why should they? Only a nerd would!
My point is....they think their cars are "good"...whereas I'd think they're an absolute pile of rubbish...and there will be people beyond me who'll think even worse. None of the parties is right or wrong; it's just that we're poles apart from the outset. And none are "bad people" for thinking the way they do.
But by way of illustration, can I show two cars from my own experience to demonstrate why I'm reluctant to go down this route?
Both belong/belonged to a chap I met through selling a car to him and who has since become a good friend. At the time of meeting him and even restoring the first of them for him(the M535i) I didn't know that he's actually quite a wealthy chap:
1)The Black E28 M535i still for sale on my website.
Having bought one car from me he asked if I'd be willing to do this car for him. He said he realised it wasn't of great monetary value but it held great sentimental value to him and his wife as it was the first proper 'modern' car they'd been able to afford back in the mid-80s when he bought it from his brother.
He's a really nice chap but maybe not quite so car savvy in terms of what's really bad if it needs fixing. He asked me if I'd do it and described it as having no more than the odd rust "bubble" here and there.
Six months later having worked on it nearly every single evening, often until midnight and every free weekend for a whole winter...and having spent about £5K of his money (and that was buying parts and stuff on the cheap on Ebay etc):
Before: http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
During: http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
After: http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
2) The Brown Mercedes Pagoda on my website
Delighted with the E28 M535i result the same chap then asked me if I'd be willing to give his Pagoda a 'quick detail'. Being the first Merc I had ever dealt with (nothing like starting right at the very deep end?
) I said: "Yes...as long as we don't get into a sceanrio like we did with the M535i". The one thing I did know about Pagodas and R107s was their rust reputation but nothing else really.He assured me and genuinely believed that this was nothing like the M535i. He'd actually owned it pre-M535i (since about 1984) when it was a cheap car to buy and had over the years tried to maintain it very well and at great expense at a well-known Pagoda specialist down south and had a raft of bills to the tune of £25K to prove it.
I asked speciifically about rust. He felt it only had a little bubbling around the front screen surround. Indeed, here's a pic of it as it was BEFORE the restoration and as it was when he brought it to me:
Looks nice, yeah? Now look at the pics on my website!
Now I use a body/paintshop located in rural Wales who do very good work but because of location have relatively low overheads. That job came along in 2008 just as the financial crisis hit, they ran short of work for a few months as the car trade basically shut down and they were gratfeful for any work I could give them. 3 months and £13,000 of bodywork later.....!!
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
Now that even raised his eyebrows...and he's got 'proper' money.
The 'average' seller? I'm not sure they'd understand or be willing to pay? Final example...there's a nice looking 300CE currently for sale that we discussed on here a few pages back. Can't remember exactly how much it is...something like a couple of £K? That 'couple of £K' for the WHOLE car would be almost immediately consumed merely by the paintwork polish I had to get my bodyshop to do on my 300CE, its seats being re-done, the wheels being refurbished and a new set of tyres....nothing else. All gone!
So coming back to your idea, Richard. I think it's a good one and one that I've thought about but my fear is that people's expectations might be unrealistic. My fear is that they'll think I can pay Derin £500 as a fee, all will be sorted, I'll have a car done and dusted like the ones on his website and that'll be worth it.
If only it were so. I can't do that and so everyone would be disappointed?
Pulse said:
derin100 said:
They do. But they don't do it themselves. As I understand it they do it purely on a brokerage basis. No real input other than a storage facility, a website with cars shot on a pure white background, under blindingly white light...where just about any car can be made to look good...and price tags that implictly 'suggest' that these cars [i]must[/] be really good.
No real risk...no real effort. Nice.
That's certainly my impression of the operation, too.No real risk...no real effort. Nice.
What are you hoping to get back for your Merc then Derin? £10k spent, many man hours, etc...
It must be awful stuck doing something you have to give 100% to, but detest. [The dayjob]
Continentals still value classic old barges in good condition don't they? Any mileage in repatriating LHD metal from Blighty?
Got to be something out there that's enjoyable and pays some bills. I sincerely hope you find your niche Derin
Continentals still value classic old barges in good condition don't they? Any mileage in repatriating LHD metal from Blighty?
Got to be something out there that's enjoyable and pays some bills. I sincerely hope you find your niche Derin
slippery said:
harry kular said:
Definitely R129SL, he wrote about the swap recently.
I don't think he mentioned it in his for sale ad though. 
bolide said:
Derin, with your attention to detail I am sure you could make a small fortune in trading cars
Of course you'd have to start with a large fortune!
Nick Froome
Thanks Nick.Of course you'd have to start with a large fortune!
Nick Froome
I have neither a large fortune...and probably don't have the balls to risk the little that I have!
If I had in the past I could have made some serious money! Can you believe that about 7 years ao I could have bought a 507 for $40 odd-ish K? Yes...and that $ sign was correct!
richardxjr said:
It must be awful stuck doing something you have to give 100% to, but detest. [The dayjob]
Continentals still value classic old barges in good condition don't they? Any mileage in repatriating LHD metal from Blighty?
Got to be something out there that's enjoyable and pays some bills. I sincerely hope you find your niche Derin
You've hit the nail on the head again, Richard. I don't know how many people can imagine doing a job where it's expected (rightly) that you focus and give 100% to. That's fine. It's when cock-ends and the 'system' start taking 110% and Radio 4 etc still describes 'you' every day as part of a "failing" service that you lose the will and say to yourself: "Ok! Right! Now see how you get on without me! And please God, don't let me have to suffer at the hands of what they're going to put in place of me! I know I can work/operate with my hands...I don't want the numpties that I see following on touching me!"Continentals still value classic old barges in good condition don't they? Any mileage in repatriating LHD metal from Blighty?
Got to be something out there that's enjoyable and pays some bills. I sincerely hope you find your niche Derin
Yes, you're right. I've studied the European market quite closely and it would be a totally differeent story if our steering wheels were on the other side.
A few years ago this would have been a real treasure trove. LHD was always a cheapy and almost unsaleable commodity back-in-the-day here in the U.K. Not so since the Eastern European market opened up. Poland, Lithuania etc etc will long have sucked every cheapo potential 'classic' out of the U.K now.
My ex-E30 M3 went to Italy; my ex-E36 Alpina E36 3.0 Coupe went to Slovenia...and both of those were years ago.
RHD really only leaves some ex-Colonies open to us now I reckon. My Ex-W201 2.6 went to Hong Kong.
Thanks Richard, hopefully I'll be doing this niche from a position where I'm not going to be rich by doing it but hopefully in a position where I no longer need to have to be doing what I'm doing now. I'm [i]only[/] 50....so I just don't want (and can't afford) to be doing absolutely 'nothing'. All I want it is to be doing something I want to be doing....If that makes sense?
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