RE: Lotus unveils Evora GTE 'By Swizz Beatz'
Discussion
...So 21" alloys on 5 series BMWs isnt derived from 'urban' culture? Incar TV's? 8.1+ speaker soundsytems? All these things have been picked up and accepted into conservative british car purchaces at great optional cost, so you'll pay £1500 for some pimp wheels and speakers on your repmobile but when Lotus actually consult a pioneer in this 'theme' its killing the brand? (19"s on a golf?, if this was even 10 years ago you'd be laughed out of halfords). Seem like Lotus are looking to expand on the creeping influence of urban culture by getting in first with a family friendly face of urban culture (like will smith was in the fresh prince days) sit back and count the bucks.
We are in a different time to when you could throw a car into a james bond film and it sticks in the minds of kids, keeping it nice and nostagically british, for a start recent james bonds have lost the class of older ones, 'oooh look james is driving a mondeo which he doesnt crash but kills an aston' even though you might not personally know anybody whos a part of 'urban' culture its not just chavs and yardies anymore.
That DH ad/product placement was much worse than a special paint job and a load of twittering.
Just imagine everytime you see the words 'Swizz Beatz' your actually seeing 'Cliff Richard'.
Swizz Beatz embodies the American Dream, the classic rags to riches story all americans love, he represents capitolism working at its best, anybody can make it, and you can too! It works as an inspirational thing there in a way I dont think it will with the whole stigma of the 'traditional Lotus buyer' we have here.
We are in a different time to when you could throw a car into a james bond film and it sticks in the minds of kids, keeping it nice and nostagically british, for a start recent james bonds have lost the class of older ones, 'oooh look james is driving a mondeo which he doesnt crash but kills an aston' even though you might not personally know anybody whos a part of 'urban' culture its not just chavs and yardies anymore.
That DH ad/product placement was much worse than a special paint job and a load of twittering.
Just imagine everytime you see the words 'Swizz Beatz' your actually seeing 'Cliff Richard'.
Swizz Beatz embodies the American Dream, the classic rags to riches story all americans love, he represents capitolism working at its best, anybody can make it, and you can too! It works as an inspirational thing there in a way I dont think it will with the whole stigma of the 'traditional Lotus buyer' we have here.
Edited by KM666 on Wednesday 7th December 22:52
KM666 said:
...So 21" alloys on 5 series BMWs isnt derived from 'urban' culture?
No, it's derived from performance cars, which have large diameter wheels.KM666 said:
Seem like Lotus are looking to expand on the creeping influence of urban culture by getting in first with a family friendly face of urban culture (like will smith was in the fresh prince days) sit back and count the bucks.
With a burgeoning entourage of illegitimate kids, he's certainly family friendly.KM666 said:
...even though you might not personally know anybody whos a part of 'urban' culture its not just chavs and yardies anymore.
That's a contradiction in terms, like saying mud isn't just dirt anymore.Despite my blatant slurs, I'm sure this guy has his merits and I have no ill will towards him personally, or the culture he represents.
What I dislike is the fact that I am not part of that culture (nor do I wish to be) and that Lotus - a company whose cars I like - may adjust it's image and product to suit the aspirations of people that are. In doing so, they risk disenfranchising their traditional market and possibly undermining sales leaving me with no vent for my impending mid-life crisis.
This aside, from a business perspective this looks like a grossly misjudged case of wrong product, wrong market.
randomcash said:
On-topic, those people who think you can comfortably get away with pitching a product at different target markets in different parts of the world are dreaming. Both the US, the UK and most of Europe speak English. If word gets out - and it does rapidly on the internet - that the expensive, impractical car you've spent a year convincing your wife/girlfriend is a good buy is driven by monied rudebwoys in the land of opportunity, you might suddenly think twice before parting with your cash.
So you don't know who Swizz Beatz is, but your wife/girlfriend does? Weird.The urban scene isn't exactly a weird backwater of kids with their pants round their ankles. Listen to Radio 1 and who do you hear? Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Jay-Z (remember he headlined Glastonbury a couple of years back). And who produces them? This is grown up stuff, and widely influential.
And seriously, if the random association of a car with someone you 'don't approve of' stops you from buying it, how does anyone ever buy a Ferrari these days, given the swathes of blinged up, knuckle dragging footballers who wouldn't be seen in anything else?
If the car's good, it's good. If you've never heard of it, you ain't going to buy it. Now how do you fix that, without spending your entire annual budget on the sort of advertising campaign that Toyota can buy with spare change?
And, the ONLY people in the UK who are even slightly aware of this launch are posting on a thread that cannot even be reliably linked to. It's hardly headline news, even in one of the most car obsessive sites in the country.
This car and the V6 Exige sound great. But. But are they really going to be approved for the US? I don't think we want centerlock wheels based upon all the trouble the Porsches have been having with them unless they are designed much better.
A lot of this marketing does seem a bit of an an embarrassment if you like these cars. Read what Americans are saying about it.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f170/swizzs-gte-al...
This hip hop and Desperate Housewives thing doesn't make anymore sense here in the USA then the UK. We need a better dealer network meaning existing dealers need to promote their cars more.
That said the GTE and V6 Exige are what people have wanted for sometime in the USA anyway. The 911 GT3's IMS, centerlocks, cooling issues all seem like fundamental design flaws whereas the Lotus seems to just have a few niggles needing fixed after purchase.
While the marketing is odd to say the least, in a few years it will hopefully be forgotten. Also recall the officially leaked leak from Lotus earlier this year. That was bizarre as well.
Lotus is bringing in a lot of diverse talent and getting really aggressive with the marketing. This man, Danny, from Ferrari is perhaps a bit of a showman and seems an odd fit.
A lot of this marketing does seem a bit of an an embarrassment if you like these cars. Read what Americans are saying about it.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f170/swizzs-gte-al...
This hip hop and Desperate Housewives thing doesn't make anymore sense here in the USA then the UK. We need a better dealer network meaning existing dealers need to promote their cars more.
That said the GTE and V6 Exige are what people have wanted for sometime in the USA anyway. The 911 GT3's IMS, centerlocks, cooling issues all seem like fundamental design flaws whereas the Lotus seems to just have a few niggles needing fixed after purchase.
While the marketing is odd to say the least, in a few years it will hopefully be forgotten. Also recall the officially leaked leak from Lotus earlier this year. That was bizarre as well.
Lotus is bringing in a lot of diverse talent and getting really aggressive with the marketing. This man, Danny, from Ferrari is perhaps a bit of a showman and seems an odd fit.
Edited by PiB on Thursday 8th December 01:11
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
Tuna said:
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
Styling….The cars got to look good the new GTE is better but still not quite there yet. the new cars will probably do this.What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
Power…..good power delivery this is good with the GTE I hear
Handling….always been excellent no worries there then
Reliability…ahh this is very important
Price………..not too high but then again not to low 130K is a bit steep for what you get.
Marketing…If the car is great then you dont need Hip Hop marketing If the product is excellent then that is what matters. To get someone to notice you have to show them not just show the car static in a lounge in New York. Ferrari play a lot on past racing glories and so does Audi, Porsche and McLaren so what is wrong with that. The cars sell very well thank you very much.
I was looking forward to the new Lotus but this Swizz Beatz stuff is all a bit off putting when it is plainly a great car. Concentrate on the product not the hype.
kazino said:
Wish they could have got Jay Kay to do it, now that would have been cool British rock artist who is a die hard petrolhead. Swizz Beats is none of that
Swizz is a known petrolhead, so let's not get carried away from the topic...I love all respect for Jay Kay following this little hissy fit;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRKc_AgAniI
I don't understand what the problem is... A lot of people on here are not affiliated with Cars in their day job, but I'd imagine they'd jump at the chance to put their name on a Lotus. Just because Swizz doesn't sell/make/design cars at his day job, this doesn't prevent him from being a massive car fan.
I'm just saying, don't judge that which you do not know.
It is all about the product.
It has to have high levels of desirability at a price that will enable enough annual sales volume to produce a sufficient surplus to fund new models.
Price competitiveness is directly related to sales
Pointless trying to force something on to people they don't really want, unsustainable.
It has to have high levels of desirability at a price that will enable enough annual sales volume to produce a sufficient surplus to fund new models.
Price competitiveness is directly related to sales
Pointless trying to force something on to people they don't really want, unsustainable.
T.K said:
JoeFrost said:
I thought Hong Kong had the largest concentration of billionaires?
Mattt said:
Outright number is more important than land mass (within reason).
Eh?43 billionaires in 426 sq mi. Tough to beat.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/17/cities-with-most-...
this still raging on ????
so who would have turned their noses up at an invite for that night and missed the op to rap with da homiees, sip pernod-ricard perrier-jouet and admire your own good looks in the reflection of that paint job ?
i might have even busted into a few breakdance moves myself to get into the spirit of things !!!
DAMN !
so who would have turned their noses up at an invite for that night and missed the op to rap with da homiees, sip pernod-ricard perrier-jouet and admire your own good looks in the reflection of that paint job ?
i might have even busted into a few breakdance moves myself to get into the spirit of things !!!
DAMN !
Tuna said:
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
It's going to be difficult, but I think that taking on Lamborghini/Porsche/Ferrari/Aston is a massive mistake. The only small companies who see to be able to compete against them, the likes of Koenigsegg, Spyker and Pagani, only seem to survive because they are all completely bonkers in their own way. Then look at the upcoming Lotus line up. The new Esprit and Elan looks quite Lamborghini like, the Elite looks like the lovechild of an Aston and a Ferrari, and the new Elise is going to have over twice the power of the original S1.The main appeal of the new Toyota 86 is that it handles well, but isn't massively overpowered, and is fun to drive. That's where I think Lotus should look, not the ultra expensive market, which I suspect will be an ever decreasing market anyway, but instead concentrate on making cars that are innovative, fun, and reasonably priced.
Tuna said:
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
MY12 build improvements a step in the right direction.What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
Price needs reducing a bit.
Needs a facelift - Lotus could hardly fail with the styling but they did and the truth is the Evora looks fugly at best....
Possibly the Swiss Beatz move/bling move is the only way to shift Evoras....China and the far East. Or maybe lop 20k off the Evoras and just write the cost off but use the loss to build client base.
Don't blame Bahar for the Evora - someone elses mistake.... (styling/build/launch/price and Lotus should have produced a larger car a lot sooner on the back of the Elise popularity.....)
Edited by donna180 on Thursday 8th December 10:24
cronk-flakes said:
Swizz is a known petrolhead, so let's not get carried away from the topic...
Did you read what the Americans are saying? Most seem to know nothing about him.PiB said:
Personally I don't believe brand ambassadors are very effective. They may be considered more so in the states but for here this is what I would do.
The dealer issue is the elephant in the room. Nothing inside the M25 for starters. Bell and Colvill is a fine institution for the enthusiast but a guy used to Porsche dealers going there, seeing the showroom shared with Saabs and Subarus ain't going to be inclined to write a check for £60+k. And that's one of the best dealers!
I happen to know that the test drive to sales conversion rate with the Evora is very high. The problem is no-one's putting it on their consideration list and no-one's driving them. Despite all the rave reviews. It's a much, much more capable than it's conservative styling suggests. 2 birds one stone, organise slick test day events at a circuit like Silverstone. Free to attend but only by appointment. The Evora needs to be driven on road and track to be properly appreciated. The usual 15 minute test drive from a ropey dealer doesn't do the car justice. A proper event at a historic track would. Get Mansell and Alesi et al down there. Let people drive all the cars on road and track. Give them lunch. Get all the dealers there. Sell cars. Then the dealer is more a place to get yours serviced. The longer term answer is still to invest in some swanky dealerships but they need something for 2012. A showroom in London wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Evora needs a styling upgrade. It was styled conservatively because it was aimed at attracting the 911 buyer who, clearly, likes his cars to be conservative. While this is right for Porsche it's not right for Lotus. A Lotus 911 rival needs to be better in every way to stand a chance and the one open goal is styling. Porsche are terrified to mess with the formula so its an easy win for Lotus to do something at the same price that's more exciting to look at. Lotus order books were bulging when the M250 prototype was doing the rounds. That demand was based on styling alone. Not saying they should have made the M250, I think things have moved on since then but the Evora has never captured the raw appeal of that car when it came out. I also know that they wanted the Evora to look like an everyday usable propostion, which it does. I think they should abandon that and make it more exotic. The Evora GTE at least delivers on raw appeal, I think that's pretty much what the Evora S should look like. If they can, they should upgrade all the cars to the direct injection version of the toyota/lexus V6 too. Base car would have over 300bhp out of the box and again would start to offer more performance for the money. Evora S at around 360ish bhp would also then offer some headroom over the Exige V6 which currently offers more performance for less money. That's not going to help sell Evoras.
Base Elise needs more power. I get the whole thing about being amazingly fast for the power, but with only 134bhp but it's not quite enough to make the car truly exciting. The previous 111r toyota engine was much more exotic, sounded amazing (with less silencing) and a brilliant match for the chassis. For the price I'd say 190bhp is what the base car should have. I know this engine is no longer available but unless the new supercharged version is more special, I think something needs to be done here. The toyota 2ZZRGE and V6 are great engines. The base Elise four isn't. It's coarse and characterless. Perhaps some in-house tuning would sort it out, liberate more revs and better noises. There must be some TRD goodies they can bolt on to it too.
Lastly give me the advertising budget. Whoever their agency is at the moment is not up to scratch. 'Evora S. Born to be wild.' Feeble and lazy. The car deserves so much better.
The dealer issue is the elephant in the room. Nothing inside the M25 for starters. Bell and Colvill is a fine institution for the enthusiast but a guy used to Porsche dealers going there, seeing the showroom shared with Saabs and Subarus ain't going to be inclined to write a check for £60+k. And that's one of the best dealers!
I happen to know that the test drive to sales conversion rate with the Evora is very high. The problem is no-one's putting it on their consideration list and no-one's driving them. Despite all the rave reviews. It's a much, much more capable than it's conservative styling suggests. 2 birds one stone, organise slick test day events at a circuit like Silverstone. Free to attend but only by appointment. The Evora needs to be driven on road and track to be properly appreciated. The usual 15 minute test drive from a ropey dealer doesn't do the car justice. A proper event at a historic track would. Get Mansell and Alesi et al down there. Let people drive all the cars on road and track. Give them lunch. Get all the dealers there. Sell cars. Then the dealer is more a place to get yours serviced. The longer term answer is still to invest in some swanky dealerships but they need something for 2012. A showroom in London wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Evora needs a styling upgrade. It was styled conservatively because it was aimed at attracting the 911 buyer who, clearly, likes his cars to be conservative. While this is right for Porsche it's not right for Lotus. A Lotus 911 rival needs to be better in every way to stand a chance and the one open goal is styling. Porsche are terrified to mess with the formula so its an easy win for Lotus to do something at the same price that's more exciting to look at. Lotus order books were bulging when the M250 prototype was doing the rounds. That demand was based on styling alone. Not saying they should have made the M250, I think things have moved on since then but the Evora has never captured the raw appeal of that car when it came out. I also know that they wanted the Evora to look like an everyday usable propostion, which it does. I think they should abandon that and make it more exotic. The Evora GTE at least delivers on raw appeal, I think that's pretty much what the Evora S should look like. If they can, they should upgrade all the cars to the direct injection version of the toyota/lexus V6 too. Base car would have over 300bhp out of the box and again would start to offer more performance for the money. Evora S at around 360ish bhp would also then offer some headroom over the Exige V6 which currently offers more performance for less money. That's not going to help sell Evoras.
Base Elise needs more power. I get the whole thing about being amazingly fast for the power, but with only 134bhp but it's not quite enough to make the car truly exciting. The previous 111r toyota engine was much more exotic, sounded amazing (with less silencing) and a brilliant match for the chassis. For the price I'd say 190bhp is what the base car should have. I know this engine is no longer available but unless the new supercharged version is more special, I think something needs to be done here. The toyota 2ZZRGE and V6 are great engines. The base Elise four isn't. It's coarse and characterless. Perhaps some in-house tuning would sort it out, liberate more revs and better noises. There must be some TRD goodies they can bolt on to it too.
Lastly give me the advertising budget. Whoever their agency is at the moment is not up to scratch. 'Evora S. Born to be wild.' Feeble and lazy. The car deserves so much better.
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