Tyres. Do you go premium?

[FoundOnRoadside]

Captain Muppet said:

316 has less grip than an M3. This is fine. No one seems to mind this.

However some aftermarket tyres have less grip than others, which is apparently instant death of the worst kind.

It's the horrendous difference between a premium tyre and the worst kind of budgets that is my problem.

Put a Wanli on an M3, and a Continental on a 316i. Take both round a tight handling track in the wet. I'm thinking the 316i will make it round the track quicker than the M3, or certainly without as much drama.

Put the two cars down a motorway at 70mph in the rain, see which one stops quickest. I'm thinking it'll still be the 316i.

Premium tyres on the most part are consistant and predictable. Go in to a wet corner a bit quick on Michelins, you'll get a bit of understeer, and there's a good chance grip will come back once you've eased off. Do the same on your Whooflungdung Speedolas, you'll lose grip instantly and never get it back until they're dragging the mangled corpse of your car on to the back of a towtruck.

http://www.tyrepress.com/News/1/22/20196.html - budget tyre takes 22.9m longer to stop compared to premium tyre from 70 on a Meriva. 22.9m is a LONG way if you're on a wet motorway and the traffic does a sudden stop as it tends to do. 22.9m is 75ft. That's two artic trucks with trailers.

[Countdown]

lee st said:

It would be interesting if insurers asked what tyres you use. Think there views would favour premium brands.

I wonder if the fact that they don't ask suggests that tyres aren't THAT big a factor in accidents.

[lee st]

Countdown said:

lee st said:

It would be interesting if insurers asked what tyres you use. Think there views would favour premium brands.

I wonder if the fact that they don't ask suggests that tyres aren't THAT big a factor in accidents.

More like it's not a primary factor but a factor no doubt!

[dav123a]

jon- said:

Blackpuddin said:

jon- said:

Blackpuddin said:

This is the way to do it. These second tier tyres are generally just as good as the premium ones, according to the German mags who test them anyway, and they don't mess around. They're basically the same as I understand it, just cheaper. German review for my BM's 225/45 x 17s rates Barums! Who would have thought that a few years back.

Erm...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Barum/Bravuris-2...

8th of 9.
9th of 15.
10th of 15.

The only mid range brands which are consistently objectively getting close to the premiums are Hankook, and now Nokian. Fulda aren't too bad either, but the likes of Falken and Kumho rarely trouble the big 6.

These are reader reviews, with owners justifying their purchases and parading their brand snobbery. There's a big difference between these and objective, practical tests carried out by respected German consumer magazines.

I was referring to the linked objective German magazine group tests. You claimed a German mag rated the Barums for your BMW, I've not seen it outside the user reviews?!

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Finnish-ECO-Touring-Tyre-Test.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...

Baruum does okay nothing amazing better than the chinese stuff.Does well in the braking test.

[Captain Muppet]

FoundOnRoadside said:

Captain Muppet said:

316 has less grip than an M3. This is fine. No one seems to mind this.

However some aftermarket tyres have less grip than others, which is apparently instant death of the worst kind.

It's the horrendous difference between a premium tyre and the worst kind of budgets that is my problem.

Put a Wanli on an M3, and a Continental on a 316i. Take both round a tight handling track in the wet. I'm thinking the 316i will make it round the track quicker than the M3, or certainly without as much drama.

Put the two cars down a motorway at 70mph in the rain, see which one stops quickest. I'm thinking it'll still be the 316i.

Premium tyres on the most part are consistant and predictable. Go in to a wet corner a bit quick on Michelins, you'll get a bit of understeer, and there's a good chance grip will come back once you've eased off. Do the same on your Whooflungdung Speedolas, you'll lose grip instantly and never get it back until they're dragging the mangled corpse of your car on to the back of a towtruck.

http://www.tyrepress.com/News/1/22/20196.html - budget tyre takes 22.9m longer to stop compared to premium tyre from 70 on a Meriva. 22.9m is a LONG way if you're on a wet motorway and the traffic does a sudden stop as it tends to do. 22.9m is 75ft. That's two artic trucks with trailers.

So if you fit st tyres leave a bit more room for stopping and don't race 316s. Sound advice.

Love the bit in bold. Doesn't sound like driving my MX5 on Ling Longs, which was charmingly progressive, but it's an exciting sentence.

[Countdown]

One of my colleagues refuses to drive his 330d in snow. He says it's lethal, even though he's fitted premium tyres.

[Strangely Brown]

s m said:

Not sure I'd risk the T1-Rs again even if they have fixed the sidewall issue - I know a few people that found the same - it's an expensive business if you find out they're still not suited to you

I don't think they have. I put T1-Rs on the MX-5 NC earlier this year and I hate them. When pushing on a little, they feel like driving on a Gel pad and I can't wait for them to get worn enough that I can justify binning them. Never again! I will be replacing them with either RE050As or Conti Sport Contact 3s at the earliest sensible opportunity.

Moral: Never trust the opinions of single make forum members.

[007 VXR]

Countdown said:

One of my colleagues refuses to drive his 330d in snow. He says it's lethal, even though he's fitted premium tyres.

Premium tyres still cant work magic.
Rear wheel drive in snow and ice on summer tyres is not funny.
Mine has over 600bhp so does not get driven in the snow.

[FoundOnRoadside]

Ah, Toyo T1-R. Had a set of them on my Lancer (only tyres I could get locally in 215-45/18 at the time). Shockingly wobbly due to sidewall flex. Not the tyre for a 1650kg diesel saloon. The car handled and gripped significantly better on the Vred Wintrac Xtremes on the winter wheels (225-45/18).

[Tonberry]

Strangely Brown said:

I don't think they have. I put T1-Rs on the MX-5 NC earlier this year and I hate them. When pushing on a little, they feel like driving on a Gel pad and I can't wait for them to get worn enough that I can justify binning them. Never again! I will be replacing them with either RE050As or Conti Sport Contact 3s at the earliest sensible opportunity.

Moral: Never trust the opinions of single make forum members.

How many miles have you put on them?

The Rainsport 2 suffers similar issues but were fine after 3000 miles.

[Fox-]

Captain Muppet said:

So if you fit st tyres leave a bit more room for stopping

Good plan.

Up until the point at which you find yourself un an unforseen emergency sitation and need to brake hard. What do you do then? Given the difference in braking disance at 70mph between the best and worst premium performance tyres in some tests can be as much as several car lengths I shudder to think what happens when Mr 'Spend 50p on tyres but leave a bit more room' suddenly has to perform an emergency stop after something falls off a truck coming the other way or somebody runs out in front or whatever other situations you hope you never face on the road but when you do, you'll be glad you are not being a cheapskate when it comes to tyres.

[Tonberry]

Countdown said:

One of my colleagues refuses to drive his 330d in snow. He says it's lethal, even though he's fitted premium tyres.

Lethal? No more so than any other car on any other summer tyre in the snow.

Difficult to drive? Possibly, being RWD and I would imagine an auto.

[80sboy]

Tonberry said:

Countdown said:

One of my colleagues refuses to drive his 330d in snow. He says it's lethal, even though he's fitted premium tyres.

Lethal? No more so than any other car on any other summer tyre in the snow.

Difficult to drive? Possibly, being RWD and I would imagine an auto.

What is lethal about travelling at 0mph in the snow in a rear wheel drive BMW? Because that's all that happens, I can tell you that!!

If anything it's much safer to drive a BMW in the snow...

[TheInternet]

Fox said:

Up until the point at which you find yourself un an unforseen emergency sitation and need to brake hard. What do you do then? Given the difference in braking disance at 70mph between the best and worst premium performance tyres in some tests can be as much as several car lengths I shudder to think what happens when Mr 'Spend 50p on tyres but leave a bit more room' suddenly has to perform an emergency stop after something falls off a truck coming the other way or somebody runs out in front or whatever other situations you hope you never face on the road but when you do, you'll be glad you are not being a cheapskate when it comes to tyres.

Annoying tripe.

[cuprabob]

TheInternet said:

Fox said:

Up until the point at which you find yourself un an unforseen emergency sitation and need to brake hard. What do you do then? Given the difference in braking disance at 70mph between the best and worst premium performance tyres in some tests can be as much as several car lengths I shudder to think what happens when Mr 'Spend 50p on tyres but leave a bit more room' suddenly has to perform an emergency stop after something falls off a truck coming the other way or somebody runs out in front or whatever other situations you hope you never face on the road but when you do, you'll be glad you are not being a cheapskate when it comes to tyres.

Guy with cheap tyres runs into the back of you -)

[Fox-]

TheInternet said:

Annoying tripe.

Thanks for that considered and insightful response.

[McClure]

steveT350C said:

AndrewW-G said:

Soovy said:

My father's words to me.

"Never ever scrimp on tyres, brakes, or johnnies".

Good words of advice

Agreed!

great parenting.

As opposed to my mother: "never have sex, the woman will trick you into getting herself pregant and trap you into marriage". No wonder I have trust issues...

[TheInternet]

Fox- said:

Thanks for that considered and insightful response.

No probskibops, I found it concise and accurate.
Using inferior tyres will increase risk if used as if they were superior tyres, however you can dictate your level of risk by moderating your speed.

[Fox-]

TheInternet said:

No probskibops, I found it concise and accurate.
Using inferior tyres will increase risk if used as if they were superior tyres, however you can dictate your level of risk by moderating your speed.

So what do you reckon, 50mph on the Motorway instead of 70?

[Strangely Brown]

Tonberry said:

How many miles have you put on them?

The Rainsport 2 suffers similar issues but were fine after 3000 miles.

So I have heard, but I am not convinced they are going to improve with wear. The problem appears to be the soft sidewall not the tread. It can be helped slightly by running them a couple of psi higher but they still feel horrible.