No ICE from 2040?!?

[AH33]

Oh and it cost £4k and will do 145mph. And sits at 80mph without losing all its range....

[Farmboy UK]

There's an obsession with range that is normally totally unused.

If you fill up for 2 minutes with petrol that will take you 400 miles. That's great... if you then go and drive 400 miles.

Using the same logic, I spend 2 minutes a week charging my car. 9 seconds every night plugging in in, and 9 second every morning unplugging it.

My range for the week in a 24kWh leaf is therefore around 560 miles in 2 minutes.

As long as I don't regularly drive more than 80 miles a day this logic is completely sound

[Ultrafunkula]

ash73 said:

The cheapest Tesla is currently £65K, the Chevrolet Bolt isn't available in the UK, are there any other electric cars you can actually buy with a range of more than 125 miles?

It'll be worth hanging on for the Model 3 when it's released here (the first US customers took delivery today) although there is a 1 yr waiting list in the US at the moment. It should be around £27k new when it gets here, with a 215 mile range.

[kambites]

The current Leaf's NEDC range is about 160 miles isn't it? So should probably manage about 125 miles in practice.

[Ultrafunkula]

ash73 said:

The Model 3 looks good but I suspect it'll cost closer to £40k. I was interested in a Smart EV as a runabout but the range is just too limited. I don't want to fight over charging terminals and end up a captive market to the charging station cafe while I wait 30 mins, I'd end up spending more on bacon butties than I do on petrol.

Agreed, for me an EV right now would be a second car. Give it 5 years though and I will likely be in the market for one.

[Major Fallout]

Wacky Racer said:

kambites said:

Wacky Racer said:

Is it the SALE of petrol & diesel cars to be banned by 2040 or the USE of them?

Sale.

I personally doubt we'll ever see a blanket ban on their use. Once new ones are no longer sold, the number on the roads will become insignificant within a few years.

So then by say 2060 when only (maybe 5% of cars on the road are petrol or diesel).....the rest have gone to the great scrapyard in the sky...petrol stations will be virtually redundant and will be closing down wholesale as their customer base as gone, there might be one every twenty miles or so.

Not good.

As an owner of a petrol station, this worries me, 105-year-old family business gone. But sod it I will go on the dole.

[anonymous-user]

AH33 said:

Oh and it cost £4k and will do 145mph. And sits at 80mph without losing all its range....

jeez, you were done over mate!

I mean, you can easily buy a s/h car that'll do well over 145mph for less that £1k, which makes your golf seem extremely expensive!

(hint: you can't compare second hand cars to new ones)

[Evanivitch]

kambites said:

The current Leaf's NEDC range is about 160 miles isn't it? So should probably manage about 125 miles in practice.

100 miles @ 60mph in moderate weather conditions is about the limit on a Leaf 30kWh.

New model Leaf due soon will hopefully be 40-50kWh.

[Evanivitch]

AH33 said:

I know this has been said a million times, but my golf will do 400 miles after a 2 minute "charge" whether cold or hot, and a Zoe or Leaf wouldn't see which way it went, its going to be a very, very long time before I see the need to go EV.

Yep but there's never queue on my driveway to fill up

[mfmman]

Major Fallout said:

As an owner of a petrol station, this worries me, 105-year-old family business gone. But sod it I will go on the dole.

Unless you are a boy filling station tycoon, you will probably be retired by 2060 anyway.

Your statement suggests no business ever has been made obsolete by technology development. On the other hand we are always being told that filling stations make nothing from fuel sales and the money is in sweets, fags (less so now) barbecue charcoal etc. Won't you even be considering seeing what other options you could have, like for example a coffee shop and charging station to have something to hand on to your descendants?

[anonymous-user]

mfmman said:

Major Fallout said:

As an owner of a petrol station, this worries me, 105-year-old family business gone. But sod it I will go on the dole.

Unless you are a boy filling station tycoon, you will probably be retired by 2060 anyway.

Your statement suggests no business ever has been made obsolete by technology development. On the other hand we are always being told that filling stations make nothing from fuel sales and the money is in sweets, fags (less so now) barbecue charcoal etc. Won't you even be considering seeing what other options you could have, like for example a coffee shop and charging station to have something to hand on to your descendants?

It strikes me that the average petrol station, converted to an EV charging station could:

1) have many more charging bays than the pumps that it currently does
2) Provide services for those people waiting for their car to charge (coffee, wifi, etc etc)
3) Provide an emergency response vehicle with on-board rapid charger to rescue peeps with flat batteries


and surely much more with some lateral thinking!

[Evanivitch]

And a hand car wash. That's what you do with old petrol stations now, isn't it?

I wonder if anyone would take the chance of pressure washing whilst the car is rapid charging....

[kambites]

AH33 said:

I know this has been said a million times, but my golf will do 400 miles after a 2 minute "charge" whether cold or hot, and a Zoe or Leaf wouldn't see which way it went, its going to be a very, very long time before I see the need to go EV.

Yes it can, and if you regularly do 800 miles (or even 400 miles) in one day then clearly current EVs are not for you... but you must understand that that puts you in a tiny, tiny proportion of the population?

[Toltec]

Farmboy UK said:

A 24kWh leaf will do a real world 80miles on a charge. I know this because I drove to Bath from Nottingham in one the other day with breaks for coffee and a McDonalds.

I can see you might plan one stop to eat some food* on a 150 mile journey due to the time of day, however most of the time that would just be a straight 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive if you started with at least half a tank of fuel. How long did it take you in the Leaf? I appreciate that taking a bit longer for the odd journey against the running costs for an EV used inside its battery range most days is a valid trade off. Add to it that you can start every day with a full 'tank' without having to regularly call at a petrol station and I can see the appeal.

If you did an extended drive, charge, drive, charge cycle on a motorway what overall average speed would you get?

* Given it was a McD I use that term loosely.

[suffolk009]

PotatoSalad said:

suffolk009 said:

Wacky Racer said:

kambites said:

Wacky Racer said:

Is it the SALE of petrol & diesel cars to be banned by 2040 or the USE of them?

Sale.

I personally doubt we'll ever see a blanket ban on their use. Once new ones are no longer sold, the number on the roads will become insignificant within a few years.

So then by say 2060 when only (maybe 5% of cars on the road are petrol or diesel).....the rest have gone to the great scrapyard in the sky...petrol stations will be virtually redundant and will be closing down wholesale as their customer base as gone, there might be one every twenty miles or so.

Not good.

I'm currently 7 miles from the nearest petrol station, and 28 miles from the nearest Tesla supercharger.

There is an upside to rural life here in Suffolk - it's 18 miles to the nearest Starbucks.

And 10 feet from the nearest socket in your house...

Oh, absolutely. My point was that 20 miles to go for petrol isn't that bad. If I forget to fill the car up and I need to head off in the other direction the next day then I'm looking at 14 miles round trip.

I'll happily have an EV in my garage, just as soon as I can afford one.

[Ares]

bodhi said:

Evanivitch said:

It's the corner case of the EV deniers.

"What! I can't drive 600 miles non stop in 12 hours, how absurd. Of course I don't need to use the toilet, avoid DVT or consume caffeine in that time, I'm a very busy person!"

I'm sure in 2050 they'll still be driving their Audi diesel and arguing how the 6 cylinder diesel is more refined than the 4 cylinder, and that the torque available at just 1500rpm makes it an A road beast.

Personally as an EV "Denier" (good to see that word getting dragged out again) my corner case is that they bore the living piss out of me - and yes, I include Teslas in that. We have 2 in the family (a Leaf and an i3 REX), and I'm struggling to think of anything memorable about them in the slightest.

I totally agree...and I'm not an EV Denier. But, the closest experience to the P95 from my personal experience e was an RS6. Both were fking awesome in a straight line, but dull when not accelerating. (RS6 has the engine note advantage though).

However, that will change, and the target market, lest we forget, it the utilitarian purchaser. i.e., getting someone out of an already fairly average car, not persuading the GT3 RS driver to get a Nissan Leaf.

[Ares]

GroundEffect said:

Ares said:

jet_noise said:

Evanivitch said:

Really? How long do you think it takes to drive from London to Edinburgh when traffic and roadworks is included?

Also, a number of key points:
1 charge was done using an Ecotricity rapid charger that took 2 hours. The equivalent Tesla Superchargers takes 45 minutes. The supercharger network has grown significantly.

2 The latest Tesla have a greater range than what was tested.

So is a EV as quick as a ICE? No. Is it perfectly capable of doing it on technology already 3 years old and in a reasonable time. Yes.

In fact this website says you can do it in a Tesla P100D in 8 hours, 10 mins, but just 27 mins to stop to charge. Practically a coffee stop.

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=ntm0...

Edited by Evanivitch on Friday 28th July 09:53

Ah, different circumstances. Rather than increasing my journey time by 50% for £80k I can decrease the increase(!) to 1/2hr for £130k.
Still no sale.

So when do you drive for 300+ miles without stopping once? And how often?

In 25yrs of driving I think I can count the times on one hand.

I do the London-Edinburgh (okay, Essex to West Lothian but it's actually slightly further!) run once a year at Christmas time. Each year I do not stop for more than 5 mins in the journey of 460 miles...

But then again, I do have a 20s bladder.

So the only impact will be that when you stop, it'll have to be for 20mins. In reality, that will be good for you. Park, plug in, have a piss, get a coffee, flirt with the slapper in Starbucks, get back in your car (unplug first) and drive... Job's a carrot.

So an EV will add a healthy 15min per year.

[Ares]

ash73 said:

The cheapest Tesla is currently £65K, the Chevrolet Bolt isn't available in the UK, are there any other electric cars you can actually buy with a range of more than 125 miles?

Yes. A lot.

And they'll double year on year. Tesla 3 being the highlight.

But even at 125miles. The number of drivers that regularly drive 125 miles non-stop is actually minuscule.

[katz]

Pretty soon you will not have to worry about charging stations, so that argument about range is already out of date. Being tested now in pilot projects is in road inductive ( wireless) charging, so you will be charging your car as you drive or park. The 2018 Mercedes S550e will have the capability for wireless charging built in.

[FourWheelDrift]

katz said:

Pretty soon you will not have to worry about charging stations, so that argument about range is already out of date. Being tested now in pilot projects is in road inductive ( wireless) charging, so you will be charging your car as you drive or park. The 2018 Mercedes S550e will have the capability for wireless charging built in.

That will get screwed the first time a utilities company decides to dig up a road.

Who will pay for the installation in all the roads?