RE: Driven: BMW 1 Series M Coupé

[///Mike]

Wolands Advocate said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Size-wise, I should think an E46 M3 and a 135i are fairly similar since the 1-series coupe is not particularly small.

My 135i is pretty much the same in terms of weights and dims as my E36 M3 Evo saloon.

Although only marginally quicker than the M3 Evo it feels substancially quicker on the road. When I have been stuck in traffic or pootling around and then open it up properly for an overtake it sometimes takes me back how much mid range shove it can muster up.

Its easy to hate the turbo set up and yes I do prefer the raw experience of the M3 Evo that I share on track but at the same time the N54 is progress and for road driving its an incredible engine. Well worthy of going in the 1M especially when you look at the way things are going with other manufacturers too.

Sounds alright with the performance exhaust too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KobsKmCzFE

Edited by ///Mike on Monday 18th October 16:41

[///Mike]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

10kg lighter but with a lot more torgue and only 20 odd BHP down. All the benchmark dyno runs I have seen on N54 engines have returned 320bhp +

[Wolands Advocate]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sounds like they are fairly similar to me then.

[ManOpener]

///Mike said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

10kg lighter but with a lot more torgue and only 20 odd BHP down. All the benchmark dyno runs I have seen on N54 engines have returned 320bhp +

That still makes it 20bhp down, S54B32 was 343ps in standard trim and 360ps in CSL.

[E21_Ross]

ManOpener said:

///Mike said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

10kg lighter but with a lot more torgue and only 20 odd BHP down. All the benchmark dyno runs I have seen on N54 engines have returned 320bhp +

That still makes it 20bhp down, S54B32 was 343ps in standard trim and 360ps in CSL.

but it's up on torque, so it'll not be a great deal different.... it's probably more economical which might be another reason?

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 18th October 17:44

[DJC]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The shorter length and wheelbase being vastly more important than the weight within the context of this as a roadcar application.

[///Mike]

E21_Ross said:

ManOpener said:

///Mike said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

10kg lighter but with a lot more torgue and only 20 odd BHP down. All the benchmark dyno runs I have seen on N54 engines have returned 320bhp +

That still makes it 20bhp down, S54B32 was 343ps in standard trim and 360ps in CSL.

but it's up on torque, so it'll not be a great deal different.... it's probably more economical which might be another reason?

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 18th October 17:44

It has more torque than an e92 M3 out of the box so without looking it up I imagine that to be MUCH more than the E46 M3.

As for fuel economy, lets not go there, I am struggling to get more than 24, my E36 M3s used to offer up 28mpg under the same conditions. Smiles for miles though, its worth it and I have a fuel card so don't really mind

[pilchardthecat]

E21_Ross said:

ManOpener said:

///Mike said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

10kg lighter but with a lot more torgue and only 20 odd BHP down. All the benchmark dyno runs I have seen on N54 engines have returned 320bhp +

That still makes it 20bhp down, S54B32 was 343ps in standard trim and 360ps in CSL.

but it's up on torque, so it'll not be a great deal different.... it's probably more economical which might be another reason?

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 18th October 17:44

Comparing the 135i to the S54B32 they were about the same in term of economy - the 135i i couldn't get close to the claimed 30mpg, got about 24 from both in similar real word driving.

The 135i might have more torque but it fizzles out at 5,500rpm when the torque drops off a cliff, the s54 is only starting to warm up at those revs, so you get one form of usability given with one hand and another taken away

The only advantage the turbo engine has in my mind is that it suits the EU eco testing methodology better.

[RobM77]

It's an interesting comparison. The E46 M3 engine is the more charismatic to drive, that's for sure.

[aeropilot]

pilchardthecat said:

The 135i might have more torque but it fizzles out at 5,500rpm when the torque drops off a cliff, the s54 is only starting to warm up at those revs, so you get one form of usability given with one hand and another taken away

Which makes the 135i in real world terms the better engine. For a weekend track day tool, yes, the S54 everytime without question, but, for a DD road car, the 135i's torque is the winner for me.
Echo's the 1970's and the comparison of the RS1600 and RS2000.

[pilchardthecat]

aeropilot said:

pilchardthecat said:

The 135i might have more torque but it fizzles out at 5,500rpm when the torque drops off a cliff, the s54 is only starting to warm up at those revs, so you get one form of usability given with one hand and another taken away

Which makes the 135i in real world terms the better engine. For a weekend track day tool, yes, the S54 everytime without question, but, for a DD road car, the 135i's torque is the winner for me.
Echo's the 1970's and the comparison of the RS1600 and RS2000.

If by "real world" you mean boring, then yes.

If you are implying that by only having 200bhp at 4,000rpm, and 343bhp at 7,800rpm the s54 is too 'peaky' to be any use on the road, then I can't agree. I don't need any more mid range than that on the road. The power band is magnificent, and makes the x35i engine look a bit rhubarb by comparison (road, track, the moon, wherever)

[E21_Ross]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

trust me, i get the NA ///M engine thing





gets approx 20mpg average, does about 30mpg at 70, give or take. and yes, has more than enough mid-range power for daily driving. when you fancy pushing on though, it's truly something to behold

[RobM77]

aeropilot said:

pilchardthecat said:

The 135i might have more torque but it fizzles out at 5,500rpm when the torque drops off a cliff, the s54 is only starting to warm up at those revs, so you get one form of usability given with one hand and another taken away

Which makes the 135i in real world terms the better engine. For a weekend track day tool, yes, the S54 everytime without question, but, for a DD road car, the 135i's torque is the winner for me.
Echo's the 1970's and the comparison of the RS1600 and RS2000.

As a driver of an Elise 111S, I see where you're coming from, however if a car's mid range is enough, then I'd say a peaky engine is ok for road use.

[havoc]

aeropilot said:

pilchardthecat said:

The 135i might have more torque but it fizzles out at 5,500rpm when the torque drops off a cliff, the s54 is only starting to warm up at those revs, so you get one form of usability given with one hand and another taken away

Which makes the 135i in real world terms the better engine. For a weekend track day tool, yes, the S54 everytime without question, but, for a DD road car, the 135i's torque is the winner for me.
Echo's the 1970's and the comparison of the RS1600 and RS2000.

I'd disagree (along with everyone else, it appears!). The old Escorts were a very different creature and neither had a surfeit of torque.

The old M3 (and even more so the new M3) have IMHO more torque than you need for day-to-day driving on the road, even in the mid-range. And then they've got a stunning top-end for the days you REALLY want to clear the cobwebs away. It's not like we're talking S2000 vs 350Z here, is it?

So - give me an example where you WOULD need all that torque and mid-range that the 135i has got over-and-above the E46 M3. And I'll give you half-a-dozen where the M3 will be more involving and enjoyable...

[RobM77]

I agree entirely with Havoc.

My main issue, as I'm sure many of you are aware, is with throttle response. That's the sole reason I didn't buy a 135i. I had the money, needed the practicality, found the performance adequate for my needs, loved the handling, but the throttle response was awful, so I walked away. The E92 M3 is fine though. My main concern is that perhaps the throttle response is an issue with the turbo, and BMW haven't been able to address it when creating the 1-M.

[E21_Ross]

RobM77 said:

I agree entirely with Havoc.

My main issue, as I'm sure many of you are aware, is with throttle response. That's the sole reason I didn't buy a 135i. I had the money, needed the practicality, found the performance adequate for my needs, loved the handling, but the throttle response was awful, so I walked away. The E92 M3 is fine though. My main concern is that perhaps the throttle response is an issue with the turbo, and BMW haven't been able to address it when creating the 1-M.

never tried a 135i but there is certainly no lag in throttle response at all in the M3.

[havoc]

E21_Ross said:

RobM77 said:

I agree entirely with Havoc.

My main issue, as I'm sure many of you are aware, is with throttle response. That's the sole reason I didn't buy a 135i. I had the money, needed the practicality, found the performance adequate for my needs, loved the handling, but the throttle response was awful, so I walked away. The E92 M3 is fine though. My main concern is that perhaps the throttle response is an issue with the turbo, and BMW haven't been able to address it when creating the 1-M.

never tried a 135i but there is certainly no lag in throttle response at all in the M3.

There is* (in the E46) if you've not got the "Sport" button pressed (or the M-button, forget what it actually says). And then when you do you only get half (top-half) of the pedal travel, which makes metering the power out a little trickier. Not a deal-breaker for me, and a lot better than most turbo cars, but it's not QUITE a throttle-cable.


* Not much mind - notably better than the wife's Golf GTi.

[RobM77]

The E92 M3 is fine, but the E46 does indeed have that lag at the top of the pedal, and I'm afraid I can feel it in sport mode too! It's acceptable though, and perhaps not a deal breaker given the lack of other similar cars on the market. The 135i is a step too far though.

[pilchardthecat]

According to my local dealer these are going to be "just over £40k" so probably about £45kish with a few options.

[havoc]

pilchardthecat said:

According to my local dealer these are going to be "just over £40k" so probably about £45kish with a few options.

Same as a 6mth old M3 then. No contest unless you're one of the "I HAVE to have a new car" brigade...