Bloodhound LSR Thread As Requested...
Discussion
fatbutt said:
mcdjl said:
It'll be in your junk mail.
It was, now approved. Only 86 signatures though!Surely the bazzillions on PH alone should be enough. Perhaps we should turn this into a campaign?
Asking a more sensible question might result in more people signing up for it...
I am in a bit of confusion here...… We know Ian Warhurst purchased Bloodhound and its assets for an undisclosed amount of money.
So, the project is saved from liquidation. It lives on.....
But, does that mean the 33 million US dollars is funded?...or not? does the project move forward at breakneck speed? …..or do we continue down the road of trying to collect dollars off the street to keep this going...…..
I guess we wait until Ian and the team make an announcement in early 2019...….
I support these guys who have invested their lives into this......and I am an American...…...SPEED RULES!
So, the project is saved from liquidation. It lives on.....
But, does that mean the 33 million US dollars is funded?...or not? does the project move forward at breakneck speed? …..or do we continue down the road of trying to collect dollars off the street to keep this going...…..
I guess we wait until Ian and the team make an announcement in early 2019...….
I support these guys who have invested their lives into this......and I am an American...…...SPEED RULES!
IN51GHT said:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ThrustSSC_...
Edited by IN51GHT on Wednesday 19th December 15:18
If you look very carefully on the tail. The company I was working for, who developed the adhesives have their name plastered on it ( it’s the logo just to the left of the blue Coventry logo). I hate to pee on your cornflakes, but without the adhesives, the rivets couldn’t have held ( they didn’t on one run, because the panels weren’t prepped properly for the adhesives) I meant to say they weren’t only riveted in my original post.
Edited by GOATever on Friday 21st December 20:48
Hawk1018 said:
I am in a bit of confusion here...… We know Ian Warhurst purchased Bloodhound and its assets for an undisclosed amount of money.
So, the project is saved from liquidation. It lives on.....
But, does that mean the 33 million US dollars is funded?...or not? does the project move forward at breakneck speed? …..or do we continue down the road of trying to collect dollars off the street to keep this going...…..
I guess we wait until Ian and the team make an announcement in early 2019...….
I support these guys who have invested their lives into this......and I am an American...…...SPEED RULES!
I take it you reference the £25m asking price when you mention $33m...So, the project is saved from liquidation. It lives on.....
But, does that mean the 33 million US dollars is funded?...or not? does the project move forward at breakneck speed? …..or do we continue down the road of trying to collect dollars off the street to keep this going...…..
I guess we wait until Ian and the team make an announcement in early 2019...….
I support these guys who have invested their lives into this......and I am an American...…...SPEED RULES!
If so, then I massively doubt anything like that figure was in play when Warhurst turned up. Even the BBC were running stories that the car itself was available for a knockdown price of £250k. So why would anyone pay anything like the original asking price?
I apologise if I’m teaching you to suck eggs - in case you do know, but the process of liquidation means that everything was available at firesale prices. If you come out of administration after the usual 8 weeks with no buyers, you’re getting liquidated.
Often people who have interest and know you’re distressed will kick the tyres in the admin phase, then wait for you to be liquidated and hopefully be first in the queue (if there is one) to snap a bargain...
So I really doubt that Warhurst has done anything more than pay, at a guess £500k to £1.5m* for the lot and then he’ll give everyone a clue in the NY. Then you’ll see how much green he really wants to spend. No one in the right mind would say “I’ve got all the money for you to complete the job!”. Nope, he’ll likely want to kick the tyres even further before deciding next steps.
Where the £25m number comes from is curious to me. It’s notoriously difficult to value a private outfit, especially one in a niche with no comparators. There’s no P\E and the business case to make any sort of profit a mystery. So on that basis I think the administrators (or Bloodhound team) valuation would have put off a lot of people because in effect they would be considered as paying for a beginning and end job. Rather than an ongoing, potentially profitable outfit that had a long future in the right hands. In my eyes, that was a tactical mistake.
- a guess, nothing more
tigerkoi said:
I take it you reference the £25m asking price when you mention $33m...
If so, then I massively doubt anything like that figure was in play when Warhurst turned up. Even the BBC were running stories that the car itself was available for a knockdown price of £250k. So why would anyone pay anything like the original asking price?
I apologise if I’m teaching you to suck eggs - in case you do know, but the process of liquidation means that everything was available at firesale prices. If you come out of administration after the usual 8 weeks with no buyers, you’re getting liquidated.
Often people who have interest and know you’re distressed will kick the tyres in the admin phase, then wait for you to be liquidated and hopefully be first in the queue (if there is one) to snap a bargain...
So I really doubt that Warhurst has done anything more than pay, at a guess £500k to £1.5m* for the lot and then he’ll give everyone a clue in the NY. Then you’ll see how much green he really wants to spend. No one in the right mind would say “I’ve got all the money for you to complete the job!”. Nope, he’ll likely want to kick the tyres even further before deciding next steps.
Where the £25m number comes from is curious to me. It’s notoriously difficult to value a private outfit, especially one in a niche with no comparators. There’s no P\E and the business case to make any sort of profit a mystery. So on that basis I think the administrators (or Bloodhound team) valuation would have put off a lot of people because in effect they would be considered as paying for a beginning and end job. Rather than an ongoing, potentially profitable outfit that had a long future in the right hands. In my eyes, that was a tactical mistake.
£25m was never the sale price; it was the administrators’ estimate of the money required to get the project to its goal, IIRC.If so, then I massively doubt anything like that figure was in play when Warhurst turned up. Even the BBC were running stories that the car itself was available for a knockdown price of £250k. So why would anyone pay anything like the original asking price?
I apologise if I’m teaching you to suck eggs - in case you do know, but the process of liquidation means that everything was available at firesale prices. If you come out of administration after the usual 8 weeks with no buyers, you’re getting liquidated.
Often people who have interest and know you’re distressed will kick the tyres in the admin phase, then wait for you to be liquidated and hopefully be first in the queue (if there is one) to snap a bargain...
So I really doubt that Warhurst has done anything more than pay, at a guess £500k to £1.5m* for the lot and then he’ll give everyone a clue in the NY. Then you’ll see how much green he really wants to spend. No one in the right mind would say “I’ve got all the money for you to complete the job!”. Nope, he’ll likely want to kick the tyres even further before deciding next steps.
Where the £25m number comes from is curious to me. It’s notoriously difficult to value a private outfit, especially one in a niche with no comparators. There’s no P\E and the business case to make any sort of profit a mystery. So on that basis I think the administrators (or Bloodhound team) valuation would have put off a lot of people because in effect they would be considered as paying for a beginning and end job. Rather than an ongoing, potentially profitable outfit that had a long future in the right hands. In my eyes, that was a tactical mistake.
- a guess, nothing more
3.8 MOD said:
Back on track and only intended for those in favour:
Please sign up to this petition for Gov funding for the Bloodhound Project!
IMechE have just launched a parliamentary petition for further Govt funding for Bloodhound So far only around 40 signatures in the first day – but we go out to 37,000 this weekend Can you please pass to all friends and contacts we need 200,000 to make a real impression .
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/234706?fb...
I’m all for seeing the car run but the estimated money needed to complete the task I’d prefer to come from the private sector. Please sign up to this petition for Gov funding for the Bloodhound Project!
IMechE have just launched a parliamentary petition for further Govt funding for Bloodhound So far only around 40 signatures in the first day – but we go out to 37,000 this weekend Can you please pass to all friends and contacts we need 200,000 to make a real impression .
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/234706?fb...
There’s got to be far more cost efficient ways of providing STEM than this. A good example is Ben Ainslee racing, not only have they been pretty successful but they do a lot of STEM work.
skwdenyer said:
£25m was never the sale price; it was the administrators’ estimate of the money required to get the project to its goal, IIRC.
I think that’s my general point; a) it’s finger in the air stuff trying to value a (small-ish) private operation’s goals and b) the administrators estimate of £25m may turn investors off when it’s just about (as you say) achieving a projects end goal, and not something more enduring that could lead to proper ROI.However, FRP would not walk around and make up the estimate themselves at the start of the admin process: confident that existing players, like Noble, Green, senior engineers etc would have influenced any thinking into settling on that figure.
But going on the original question, Warhurst would have likely picked up all the kit for a song. As to thoughts on where it goes next, how much, costs of cargo flights, who’s on the team, preparing for record runs etc...doubtful that’s costed in. Even if that’s his plan at all!
Flying Phil said:
I thought the £25M was the amount the original team were estimating they would require, to fund the project to get to S Africa and do the runs/development needed to get the 1000mph record?
Hey there,This is where I think people are getting confused. Unless you’re an insider who’s got better info, then what was reported and splattered across all the press equated simply to, “Bloodhound is in administration, need £25m!”
Now, as you know, you put a formal business or company into administration (and/or liquidation). You don’t put a project into this process. And it was the administrators who announced that figure should anyone be interested.
So my point made further up, as to how the figure came to be, sort of stands. Because as a potentially interested investor it’s also confusing. What exactly are you buying? A complete company with enduring targets? Or just a hopeful one-off hit to make 1000mph?
Administrators validate a business; they’re not in the game of currying up with a begging bowl. So because the 1000mph target and the car (kit) are sort of one and the same thing, I could see this going to firesale all day long. No one is going to pay upfront for a team’s belief they could get there with a cash infusion. Nope. You take the job lot in the car boot sale (liquidation) for little money, then you judge what sort of investment needs to go into whatever you want to do with it.
And that’s why I think it was a tactical mistake to ask a) for that sum and b) expect serious buyers to come in during the admin stage and buy it then. No chance.
AAGR said:
OK, this is all very well, but now that the project has been 'rescued', is any further work actually going ahead ?
The project hasn’t been rescued. It was/still is in administration:https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
The only change is that this incomplete car with a proven top speed similar to a decent production motorbike now has a new owner.
£25 million still needs to be found to complete the project, and there’s not a snowball in a blast furnaces’s chance of anyone making that sort of donation.
If anyone wants to help education, give the money straight to schools.
IN51GHT said:
I was told when I enquired "around £300k" for the whole shooting match
.
Ouch! That’s below even my lowest estimate....
As I say, interesting to know how much ‘green’ Warhurst is really willing to spend!
300k (perhaps) is one thing and he might have the car etc, but interesting to see if he’s ready to spend what it takes to go for the original projects goals.
dilbert2000 said:
AAGR said:
OK, this is all very well, but now that the project has been 'rescued', is any further work actually going ahead ?
The project hasn’t been rescued. It was/still is in administration:https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
The only change is that this incomplete car with a proven top speed similar to a decent production motorbike now has a new owner.
£25 million still needs to be found to complete the project, and there’s not a snowball in a blast furnaces’s chance of anyone making that sort of donation.
If anyone wants to help education, give the money straight to schools.
2k cash in the bank
£2m NatWest debenture (which Rolex & Rolls-Royce will likely take a bath on)
840k book value of IP, with uncertain realisation figure
Haulier’s lien on any assets...
Noble & Mark Chapman, both asking for 750k each as non-preferential creditors (with the “executive team” in total ,holding out for £2.1m)...
At the end with just one employee left, then made redundant, I can’t imagine much work has gone on for months, and with any donations still floating in then can imagine just servicing the trade accounts was order of day. I wonder how many involved external parties knew how things were really going at the end.
Edited by tigerkoi on Saturday 22 December 23:19
Full report from FRP filed on companies house. Not quite sure what to make of it.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
IN51GHT said:
Full report from FRP filed on companies house. Not quite sure what to make of it.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
Ian said he secured the assets and the business. My best guess is he paid the 4.4 million owed to everyone, PLUS the figure you quoted for the vehicle at 300,000. He is probably in this for around 4.7 to 5 million.https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
And with 25 million left to raise.....
Edited by Hawk1018 on Friday 28th December 08:04
Hawk1018 said:
IN51GHT said:
Full report from FRP filed on companies house. Not quite sure what to make of it.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
Ian said he secured the assets and the business. My best guess is he paid the 4.4 million owed to everyone, PLUS the figure you quoted for the vehicle at 300,000. He is probably in this for around 4.7 to 5 million.https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0629163...
And with 25 million left to raise.....
Edited by Hawk1018 on Friday 28th December 08:04
As I broke it down in an earlier post, nearly half of the £4m+ ‘owed’ was to non-preferential creditors, Noble, Chapman and someone that looks related to Chapman. Wife perhaps.
Whichever way you look at it, they’ve presided over a financial entity that’s on its backside. Why pay out for creditors who’d be way down the list of those ‘owed’.
Take Noble. He says he’s owed 750k. How does this figure come into play? Did he say from the outset that he’d work for 75k per year (now ten years, hence the 750k figure) deferred until it made good money? If so, why not secure that against the business so he’d be first in line for a payout? Even if he agreed to put in 750k over the time, what did he secure it to?
Same goes for the rest. Therefore I struggle to think why anyone would feel the need to reimburse those figures...
The debenture to NatWest is a tough one. Avoid the conversation and RR and Rolex pick up the bill, but you burn bridges. Pay it and it reserves goodwill from your key banker for the future.
Warhurst can say he’s paid for the business and the assets but that doesn’t mean he’s gone all in and helped out non-preferentials...if anything he’s made sure all outstanding bills with suppliers are paid out. That in turn brings in what is owed by debtors.
If by any chance Warhurst feels the need to pay off the ‘executive’ team, that £2.1m number, then why? If it’s for perceived knowledge that they may have to take the thing forward them what’s the aggregate 840k figure for the IP that’s listed?
Either way, with £2.1m owed to the ‘executive team’ it makes you think that they received loads of donation money over the years to support a lavish amount for only a few people and one employee right at the very end...
tigerkoi said:
Best part of £5m...are you sure?
As I broke it down in an earlier post, nearly half of the £4m+ ‘owed’ was to non-preferential creditors, Noble, Chapman and someone that looks related to Chapman. Wife perhaps.
Whichever way you look at it, they’ve presided over a financial entity that’s on its backside. Why pay out for creditors who’d be way down the list of those ‘owed’.
Take Noble. He says he’s owed 750k. How does this figure come into play? Did he say from the outset that he’d work for 75k per year (now ten years, hence the 750k figure) deferred until it made good money? If so, why not secure that against the business so he’d be first in line for a payout? Even if he agreed to put in 750k over the time, what did he secure it to?
Same goes for the rest. Therefore I struggle to think why anyone would feel the need to reimburse those figures...
The debenture to NatWest is a tough one. Avoid the conversation and RR and Rolex pick up the bill, but you burn bridges. Pay it and it reserves goodwill from your key banker for the future.
Warhurst can say he’s paid for the business and the assets but that doesn’t mean he’s gone all in and helped out non-preferentials...if anything he’s made sure all outstanding bills with suppliers are paid out. That in turn brings in what is owed by debtors.
If by any chance Warhurst feels the need to pay off the ‘executive’ team, that £2.1m number, then why? If it’s for perceived knowledge that they may have to take the thing forward them what’s the aggregate 840k figure for the IP that’s listed?
Either way, with £2.1m owed to the ‘executive team’ it makes you think that they received loads of donation money over the years to support a lavish amount for only a few people and one employee right at the very end...
You could very well be correct tiger...…..I am not sure at all about anything Ian paid at this point... as you stated, it depends on how many bridges to be burned with sponsors and key people on the team...…...that he may or may not need, nor even want around anymore.As I broke it down in an earlier post, nearly half of the £4m+ ‘owed’ was to non-preferential creditors, Noble, Chapman and someone that looks related to Chapman. Wife perhaps.
Whichever way you look at it, they’ve presided over a financial entity that’s on its backside. Why pay out for creditors who’d be way down the list of those ‘owed’.
Take Noble. He says he’s owed 750k. How does this figure come into play? Did he say from the outset that he’d work for 75k per year (now ten years, hence the 750k figure) deferred until it made good money? If so, why not secure that against the business so he’d be first in line for a payout? Even if he agreed to put in 750k over the time, what did he secure it to?
Same goes for the rest. Therefore I struggle to think why anyone would feel the need to reimburse those figures...
The debenture to NatWest is a tough one. Avoid the conversation and RR and Rolex pick up the bill, but you burn bridges. Pay it and it reserves goodwill from your key banker for the future.
Warhurst can say he’s paid for the business and the assets but that doesn’t mean he’s gone all in and helped out non-preferentials...if anything he’s made sure all outstanding bills with suppliers are paid out. That in turn brings in what is owed by debtors.
If by any chance Warhurst feels the need to pay off the ‘executive’ team, that £2.1m number, then why? If it’s for perceived knowledge that they may have to take the thing forward them what’s the aggregate 840k figure for the IP that’s listed?
Either way, with £2.1m owed to the ‘executive team’ it makes you think that they received loads of donation money over the years to support a lavish amount for only a few people and one employee right at the very end...
At this point we do not know how much Ian is willing (or able) to invest in the project. I do have a feeling he probably would not take this on if he did not have a good portion of the projected 25 million lined up and ready to go. It just would not make good sense to continue down the financial path that the the project has been on for all these years. If this is going....it has to go now.
I wonder if In5ight would return to the team if Ian called up and said "We have complete funding.....and we need you" ????
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