RE: Lotus unveils Evora GTE 'By Swizz Beatz'
Discussion
Tuna said:
I've got to ask how you guys would 'fix it'?
What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
Simple:What would you do to get these cars selling? Lotus dropped the ball a bit on the existing line up, but the new Exige and Elise appear to be what people want. The Evora is a great drivers car, but doesn't quite have the presence to get people queuing for that vital test drive. The GTE is a big step forward though.
So... what would you change, and how would you market it?
The rules are:
1) Going on about heritage doesn't mean anything - people who know about heritage already know Lotus, have read the reviews and know the cars' reputation. Heritage is not making them buy cars. The same goes for racing. Ginetta have a good reputation in the UK and hope to sell 50 cars. Just 50.
2) It's no good suggesting they sell a hand-made, high spec car for Audi TT money, or that the Elise is sold at MX-5 prices. It's not going to happen. Ever. If you can't afford one now, nothing much is going to change.
3) Marketing is done on a budget, so it's no good suggesting they get the entire line-up in the next Bond movie, and produce an advert endorsed by the Queen.
4) You can't go on about what the Evora is like unless you've actually had a test drive, or at the very least sat in the current model. What your mate said down the pub is not very informative.
Other than that, change anything you like about the marketing, 'brand ambassadors', styling, engineering, sales channel. What would get you in the cars?
1) Set realistic expectations and build a business plan around it and scale the manufactruing base to it.
2) Know your market and build product to service it. I would strongly argue cars like the Elise have never been more relevant in a world where living standards are going backwards at the rate of knots. Keep it and use the success of the Elise (and it has been a successful product), as a template for new Esprit. No more than £80k, externally sourced engine, (probably V8 or 6), high revving, keep the car very simple a la Elise, (but well built), manual gearbox, ( a rarity in the market these days and again externally sourced), and style it with the impact of the old Esprit.
3) 2 car line up, but offer strong aftermarket and give the punter, (more relevant for the Elise), ability to add aftermarket Lotus mods, (sky's the limit with this - keeps them coming back and regular contact with dealers which is good for all parties). Again something you can build up over time and hugely relevant for current environment as people can't afford to change cars every year but new bits keep it fresh and keep individuals brand tied
4) Would suggest Proton is not the right owner, they don't understand the brand and have bought nothing to the party other than cash. Audi have done a pretty good job with Lambo IMO?
5) Marketing - keep it British as this still has global appeal and heritage is important, in which Lotus abounds. Point of reference, two brothers, (one of whom I know well), set up Bremont watches a few years back from nothing,(http://www.bremont.com/), British manufacturer of quality timepieces based primarily around aviation but also made some very clever associations e.g. Official timekeeper at Goodwood FOS, a quintessentially British event that is quality. They have great amabassadors, relationships all built up from scratch and it is a well executed process.
6) Suggestions on the marketing front. Pick British icons that are known around the world and where you can get some free'ish publicity. Red Arrows would be one suggestion as an association and they are unquestionably British and quality and relevant. Another would be an association with the London Olympics. Before people get up in arms and say its out of their price league, there are ways around it. Youtube clip around a 400m track starring New Exige vs GT3 vs whatever. Colin Chapman (CGI) on the flag hopefully to wave home the rightful winner, lauched in the build up to 2012.
Now people are going to think I am going off on a tangent here, but you need to get people immersed in a brand young, LEGO I would argue is a great way to do this. Support karting, (lotus academy - worked for Hamilton and McLaren - sort of Scholarship), get F1 right, that's all the exposure Lotus will ever need. Build the cars as I outline above and offer the aftermarket and I beleive this will send Lotus back on the way to success. If so, then you can talk about global domination, but I would encourage not.
JS100 said:
T.K said:
JoeFrost said:
I thought Hong Kong had the largest concentration of billionaires?
Mattt said:
Outright number is more important than land mass (within reason).
Eh?43 billionaires in 426 sq mi. Tough to beat.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/17/cities-with-most-...
If you prefer it the other way round, Moscow Oblast is 17,722.1 sq. miles.
So. Tough to beat.
T.K said:
JS100 said:
T.K said:
JoeFrost said:
I thought Hong Kong had the largest concentration of billionaires?
Mattt said:
Outright number is more important than land mass (within reason).
Eh?43 billionaires in 426 sq mi. Tough to beat.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/17/cities-with-most-...
If you prefer it the other way round, Moscow Oblast is 17,722.1 sq. miles.
So. Tough to beat.
It's not tough to beat, its unarguable I'm afraid!
Ozzie Osmond said:
What I find so odd is that Lotus' reaction to the obvious Evora problems is to relaunch Exige with the V6, a car which is only likely to appeal to a very limited audience with it's undoubted track-day abilities but "just crashed through Halfords" styling.
This would suggest that Lotus is not the brand for you.JS100 said:
T.K said:
JS100 said:
T.K said:
JoeFrost said:
I thought Hong Kong had the largest concentration of billionaires?
Mattt said:
Outright number is more important than land mass (within reason).
Eh?43 billionaires in 426 sq mi. Tough to beat.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/17/cities-with-most-...
If you prefer it the other way round, Moscow Oblast is 17,722.1 sq. miles.
So. Tough to beat.
It's not tough to beat, its unarguable I'm afraid!
Before you stuck your nose in, I was quoting some other people to discuss the concentration point that was raised. I have never commented on your original post. This is a different point.
Have to say I don't understand the hate for the Evora from some people. I know I'm biased by definition but after having a 997.2 Carrera for a year I went and bought an Evora S. It's not a company car, I actually wanted one and bought one.
Sure it's a bit quirky in some respects and it's not as practical as the Porsche, but it's a far more enjoyable car and is a clear step ahead of the Porsche to drive. It's also a damn sight more interesting to own and live with, at risk of indulging in two cliche's at once it's like a mini-Ferrari compared to the Porsche's fast-Audi.
I'm not trying to slate Porsche, I think they are great cars and am a huge fan of the marque, but the regular models (i.e. non GT) are now IMHO an upmarket everyday car and have become over-sanitised.
Also, I've not met a single individual who has looked at my car and said 'that's ugly', in fact almost all have commented on how pretty it is.
Sure it's a bit quirky in some respects and it's not as practical as the Porsche, but it's a far more enjoyable car and is a clear step ahead of the Porsche to drive. It's also a damn sight more interesting to own and live with, at risk of indulging in two cliche's at once it's like a mini-Ferrari compared to the Porsche's fast-Audi.
I'm not trying to slate Porsche, I think they are great cars and am a huge fan of the marque, but the regular models (i.e. non GT) are now IMHO an upmarket everyday car and have become over-sanitised.
Also, I've not met a single individual who has looked at my car and said 'that's ugly', in fact almost all have commented on how pretty it is.
The Wookie said:
Have to say I don't understand the hate for the Evora from some people. I know I'm biased by definition but after having a 997.2 Carrera for a year I went and bought an Evora S. It's not a company car, I actually wanted one and bought one.
Sure it's a bit quirky in some respects and it's not as practical as the Porsche, but it's a far more enjoyable car and is a clear step ahead of the Porsche to drive. It's also a damn sight more interesting to own and live with, at risk of indulging in two cliche's at once it's like a mini-Ferrari compared to the Porsche's fast-Audi.
I'm not trying to slate Porsche, I think they are great cars and am a huge fan of the marque, but the regular models (i.e. non GT) are now IMHO an upmarket everyday car and have become over-sanitised.
Also, I've not met a single individual who has looked at my car and said 'that's ugly', in fact almost all have commented on how pretty it is.
Vehicle dynamics in Norfolk - you must work at Lotus and I claim my free prize of a 48 hour demo of an S... Sure it's a bit quirky in some respects and it's not as practical as the Porsche, but it's a far more enjoyable car and is a clear step ahead of the Porsche to drive. It's also a damn sight more interesting to own and live with, at risk of indulging in two cliche's at once it's like a mini-Ferrari compared to the Porsche's fast-Audi.
I'm not trying to slate Porsche, I think they are great cars and am a huge fan of the marque, but the regular models (i.e. non GT) are now IMHO an upmarket everyday car and have become over-sanitised.
Also, I've not met a single individual who has looked at my car and said 'that's ugly', in fact almost all have commented on how pretty it is.
(I don't hate the Evora - launch models were really bad wrt build - I haven't driven an S yet but will probably next year. Edit: don't like the concept of the 991 very much
)Edited by donna180 on Thursday 8th December 12:34
donna180 said:
Vehicle dynamics in Norfolk - you must work at Lotus and I claim my free prize of a 48 hour demo of an S...
(I don't hate the Evora - launch models were really bad wrt build - I haven't driven an S yet but will probably next year. )
Not necessarily, there is more than one Vehicle Dynamics establishment in Norfolk, I could work at Multimatic or in the Hethel Engineering Centre for example (I don't hate the Evora - launch models were really bad wrt build - I haven't driven an S yet but will probably next year.
)
The build quality has got better and better. My car is an MY11 car and the general build is very good, but the MY12 cars are a big step forward in adding perceived quality to it, the leather is much thicker and fit and finish very good. Well worth having a go.
The Wookie said:
donna180 said:
Vehicle dynamics in Norfolk - you must work at Lotus and I claim my free prize of a 48 hour demo of an S...
(I don't hate the Evora - launch models were really bad wrt build - I haven't driven an S yet but will probably next year. )
Not necessarily, there is more than one Vehicle Dynamics establishment in Norfolk, I could work at Multimatic or in the Hethel Engineering Centre for example (I don't hate the Evora - launch models were really bad wrt build - I haven't driven an S yet but will probably next year.
)The build quality has got better and better. My car is an MY11 car and the general build is very good, but the MY12 cars are a big step forward in adding perceived quality to it, the leather is much thicker and fit and finish very good. Well worth having a go.
(I really like the new Exige but need power steering... 
Ozzie Osmond said:
Evora is a seriously flawed car and no amount of "marketing" is going make it sell. Watching the spectacle is frankly embarrassing for anyone who has the slightest regard for what Lotus means in the world of sportscars and racing. Get the product right and it will sell.
Please enlightened us on why it is seriously flawed?I'd love an Evora and am hoping to get one. It's an enormously capable car.
My only gripe is that I loathe almost everything about the 911 and it saddens me that Lotus tried to copy the formula. From a business point of view it appears to make sense. 911 is very popular so it's easy to assume that Porsche have read the market right. Bring out something dynamically superior for usefully less money and you'd think you'd have every chance of catching a few who are put off by the ubiquity of the 911. All fine in theory.
But I appear to be the only person on earth who hates 911s so for anyone else, if you want a 911 you'll get a 911. An imitator only serves to promote the original. The 'status' of the badge also appears to be of more interest than the heritage of the Lotus badge. The porsche badge and image is an absolute turn-off for me personally for the same reasons that appeal to a certain type of person. So I'd buy an Evora because it's a fast, practical, daily usable, british made and specifically because it's not a 911. Everyone else just buys a 911.
Lotus would find it easier to compete somewhere nearer the GT3 space than the Carrera area. The buyers are very different. The priorities of a GT3 driver are better suited to the Lotus brand. ie plastic windows and the like do not put off someone who prioritizes driving pleasure and track capability over luxury and status. That's an area Lotus can compete better in. The Evora GTE is such a car. £20k less than the 4.0 GT3RS and every inch as capable, if not more so I'll wager. The beauty for Lotus is that the porsche is sold out too with no replacement on the horizon. The timing could be good for that car.
The regular 911 customer, if he ever lowered himself to visit a Lotus showroom (unlikely as things stand) would fiddle with all the minor switchgear, play with the sun visors and make a face like he's sucking a lemon, before heading out the door. The GT3 driver is likely to prioritize driving pleasure and therefore happier to live with a few compromises in exchange for greater rewards - meaning he might actually bother to drive the thing. He'll find poise, balance and dynamic polish to spare. The nose won't bob but the great traction out of corners will be familiar. He'll notice it's confidence inspiring where the GT3 is intimidating. And a smooth, brawny engine. He'll probably enjoy it right up to the point where his mate says 'Evora eh, isn't that the one with the Camry engine?' then he'll do the lemon face all the way back to the porsche dealer.
Lotus created a unique niche with the Elise and Exige. They ask compromises of the driver and owner but the extra focus on driving pleasure and dynamic ability means they deliver in ways no jack of all trades type car could ever hope to, or ever will. Interesting that this is where Porsche start being 'inspired' by Lotus - Boxster Spyder in particular is an attempt at sacrificing practicality for more driver focus. Stupid because it erodes the very thing that's good about a Boxster and pointless because they'll always stop short of making it so good that it exposes the 911 but there you go.
My only gripe is that I loathe almost everything about the 911 and it saddens me that Lotus tried to copy the formula. From a business point of view it appears to make sense. 911 is very popular so it's easy to assume that Porsche have read the market right. Bring out something dynamically superior for usefully less money and you'd think you'd have every chance of catching a few who are put off by the ubiquity of the 911. All fine in theory.
But I appear to be the only person on earth who hates 911s so for anyone else, if you want a 911 you'll get a 911. An imitator only serves to promote the original. The 'status' of the badge also appears to be of more interest than the heritage of the Lotus badge. The porsche badge and image is an absolute turn-off for me personally for the same reasons that appeal to a certain type of person. So I'd buy an Evora because it's a fast, practical, daily usable, british made and specifically because it's not a 911. Everyone else just buys a 911.
Lotus would find it easier to compete somewhere nearer the GT3 space than the Carrera area. The buyers are very different. The priorities of a GT3 driver are better suited to the Lotus brand. ie plastic windows and the like do not put off someone who prioritizes driving pleasure and track capability over luxury and status. That's an area Lotus can compete better in. The Evora GTE is such a car. £20k less than the 4.0 GT3RS and every inch as capable, if not more so I'll wager. The beauty for Lotus is that the porsche is sold out too with no replacement on the horizon. The timing could be good for that car.
The regular 911 customer, if he ever lowered himself to visit a Lotus showroom (unlikely as things stand) would fiddle with all the minor switchgear, play with the sun visors and make a face like he's sucking a lemon, before heading out the door. The GT3 driver is likely to prioritize driving pleasure and therefore happier to live with a few compromises in exchange for greater rewards - meaning he might actually bother to drive the thing. He'll find poise, balance and dynamic polish to spare. The nose won't bob but the great traction out of corners will be familiar. He'll notice it's confidence inspiring where the GT3 is intimidating. And a smooth, brawny engine. He'll probably enjoy it right up to the point where his mate says 'Evora eh, isn't that the one with the Camry engine?' then he'll do the lemon face all the way back to the porsche dealer.
Lotus created a unique niche with the Elise and Exige. They ask compromises of the driver and owner but the extra focus on driving pleasure and dynamic ability means they deliver in ways no jack of all trades type car could ever hope to, or ever will. Interesting that this is where Porsche start being 'inspired' by Lotus - Boxster Spyder in particular is an attempt at sacrificing practicality for more driver focus. Stupid because it erodes the very thing that's good about a Boxster and pointless because they'll always stop short of making it so good that it exposes the 911 but there you go.
bobo said:
BSC said:
Credibility.
best post of the day ... Elise is a great car and truly the saviour of Lotus for more than a decade.
Regrettably Europa was not right and few were sold. So Lotus didn't get the message but built a bigger, heavier, uglier Europa 2+2 with a V6 which they are trying to sell for double the price. Evora is just wrong.
Special editions? My choice for the next would be the Lotus "LMFAO" complete with worrying trousers and a cardboard box to wear on your head - everybody's shufflin'....
Regrettably Europa was not right and few were sold. So Lotus didn't get the message but built a bigger, heavier, uglier Europa 2+2 with a V6 which they are trying to sell for double the price. Evora is just wrong.
Special editions? My choice for the next would be the Lotus "LMFAO" complete with worrying trousers and a cardboard box to wear on your head - everybody's shufflin'....
Tuna said:
Not really. You might as well say, "Sell lots". How is Lotus not credible? The Evora, Exige and Elise are remarkable cars. It's a testament to how good Lotus have got that a ten year old Elise can still command well over 10 grand.
The Evora GTE is not a credible car as it will not be on sale as a roadgoing car in USA and Europe as legislation on emissions forbid that.Line-up of new models is not credible as finance lacks.
Existing cars are credible, but Evora too expensive, Exige V6 a little bit hard-core, Exige S according to Lotus sold out for the fist six month of 2012, Elise 136 hp not in production or as Exige S sold out until July 2012. What can dealers sell exept standard Evora?
Stop trying to be Porsche.
Europa was a good idea, badly marketed. If Lotus hadn't marketed it as a rival to the Cayman, but instead gone after the "I'd like an Exige but it's too hardcore/track oriented to be a daily driver" they may have sold a few more.
Honestly, no-one comes close to Porsche in the minds of many, many people who buy this type of car so don't try and compete on their playing field. They should have sold the Europa to 20 and 30-somethings with a love of driving but a need for a daily driver, which is what it was.
What it wasn't, was a car for impressing your mates/girls etc. - the Porker key fob will always do that better.
Now they're trying the same thing with the Evora - a Lambo/Ferrari/Porsche fob will always win with a certain demographic so you must provide an alternative prospect and look for people accordingly - that doesn't include using someone many, many prospective purchasers haven't heard of with a spelling mistake for a name to create a shiny version of your product and pretend he had 'creative input'.
If the rappers start rapping about their Lotuses, great. But it's got to come from them, not from you.
What should they do - be realistic. Why build a car with superior dynamics but a conservative look then sell it as if it was the opposite, the scene they've chosen isn't about how it drives, it's what it says about you and how much money you've got. It's USP is not 'da bling' so rappers etc. are not going to endorse it credibly.
The Evora is not going to be the first choice for most, so seek out anyone that might consider your product and bombard them with it. It's USP is the drive, so get the 'right' people talking about that in public, people whose opinions are respected.
But if you really want to appeal to wannabe rappers and footballers, make your next car look like it should cost £300k and sell it for £50k but don't bother with dynamics, just put a big engine in and be done with it.
Alternatively, keep making wonderful nuanced cars but build on the customer base you have - most of them are incredibly loyal (I've had a S1 Sport 190 and a S2 Exige and I'm sure I'll buy another Lotus at some point soon).
Europa was a good idea, badly marketed. If Lotus hadn't marketed it as a rival to the Cayman, but instead gone after the "I'd like an Exige but it's too hardcore/track oriented to be a daily driver" they may have sold a few more.
Honestly, no-one comes close to Porsche in the minds of many, many people who buy this type of car so don't try and compete on their playing field. They should have sold the Europa to 20 and 30-somethings with a love of driving but a need for a daily driver, which is what it was.
What it wasn't, was a car for impressing your mates/girls etc. - the Porker key fob will always do that better.
Now they're trying the same thing with the Evora - a Lambo/Ferrari/Porsche fob will always win with a certain demographic so you must provide an alternative prospect and look for people accordingly - that doesn't include using someone many, many prospective purchasers haven't heard of with a spelling mistake for a name to create a shiny version of your product and pretend he had 'creative input'.
If the rappers start rapping about their Lotuses, great. But it's got to come from them, not from you.
What should they do - be realistic. Why build a car with superior dynamics but a conservative look then sell it as if it was the opposite, the scene they've chosen isn't about how it drives, it's what it says about you and how much money you've got. It's USP is not 'da bling' so rappers etc. are not going to endorse it credibly.
The Evora is not going to be the first choice for most, so seek out anyone that might consider your product and bombard them with it. It's USP is the drive, so get the 'right' people talking about that in public, people whose opinions are respected.
But if you really want to appeal to wannabe rappers and footballers, make your next car look like it should cost £300k and sell it for £50k but don't bother with dynamics, just put a big engine in and be done with it.
Alternatively, keep making wonderful nuanced cars but build on the customer base you have - most of them are incredibly loyal (I've had a S1 Sport 190 and a S2 Exige and I'm sure I'll buy another Lotus at some point soon).
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