The decline of manual values
Discussion
NDNDNDND said:
Missy Charm said:
What is this fascination with heeling and toeing? It's only pressing two pedals at the same time, when all is said and done.
Yeah, but it's fun - and it's satisfying when you get it just right.Chromegrill said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
You wouldn't. You'd pass in an auto and get an unrestricted full licence. If you need to drive a manual, no official lessons or test required, you just learn from a family member or friend. This has been the way it works in the USA for ever and it's been just fine.
I wouldn't know how to drive a vintage car. I probably couldn't even work out how to start it. If I ever need to drive one, the owner can teach me what to do.
Haha! I wouldn't know how to drive a vintage car. I probably couldn't even work out how to start it. If I ever need to drive one, the owner can teach me what to do.
A relative of mine went to university in the USA, having learnt to drive in a manual (sorry, "stick shift"). It was commonplace for students to borrow one another's cars to go out in the evening, and fairly commonplace for them to crash them too. She had a very relaxed attitude to allowing anyone who wanted to borrow her car to have it for the evening. It wasn't crashed once.
Though, as none of her friends knew how to drive a manual, it wasn't ever borrowed either.
Missy Charm said:
What is this fascination with heeling and toeing? It's only pressing two pedals at the same time, when all is said and done.
Well, three pedals to be precise. 
Nice when the pedals are nicely set up for it.
Oops, sorry, already answered, I was catching up on the thread, should always remember to get to the end first.
Chromegrill said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
You wouldn't. You'd pass in an auto and get an unrestricted full licence. If you need to drive a manual, no official lessons or test required, you just learn from a family member or friend. This has been the way it works in the USA for ever and it's been just fine.
I wouldn't know how to drive a vintage car. I probably couldn't even work out how to start it. If I ever need to drive one, the owner can teach me what to do.
Haha! I wouldn't know how to drive a vintage car. I probably couldn't even work out how to start it. If I ever need to drive one, the owner can teach me what to do.
A relative of mine went to university in the USA, having learnt to drive in a manual (sorry, "stick shift"). It was commonplace for students to borrow one another's cars to go out in the evening, and fairly commonplace for them to crash them too. She had a very relaxed attitude to allowing anyone who wanted to borrow her car to have it for the evening. It wasn't crashed once.
Though, as none of her friends knew how to drive a manual, it wasn't ever borrowed either.
driveaway said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In other words, no, you have no evidence that auto licence holders are anymore of a risk on the road driving autos than manual licence holders driving autos. And no, you don't have a full motorbike licence.
You come across as a bit of a tit. "Look at me, I have a manual licence, I'm superior to all you auto licence holders". Well I have an full bike licence too, and I know many bike riders think that having a full motorcycle licence makes you a better car driver, and car only drivers really haven't got a clue. No matter where you are in life, they'll always be someone better qualified who can look down on you and sneer. So don't be one of those sneering types.
You must be having a bad day!You come across as a bit of a tit. "Look at me, I have a manual licence, I'm superior to all you auto licence holders". Well I have an full bike licence too, and I know many bike riders think that having a full motorcycle licence makes you a better car driver, and car only drivers really haven't got a clue. No matter where you are in life, they'll always be someone better qualified who can look down on you and sneer. So don't be one of those sneering types.
Full of assumptions about someone else and you don't even know me!
My statement was based on my experience, and has nothing to do with my driving capabilities!
I definitely do not hold myself as 'superior', nor the best driver in the world, actually, from your tone of writing, it seems that you think so about yourself!
Just take a deep breath and a chill pill, I didn't attack anyone IN PERTICULAR so don't go and do the same!
Your exact words:
"I strongly believe, that people who CANNOT drive a manual (not someone who just chooses not to), and hasn't got the license for one, shouldn't really be allowed on the road."
Perhaps people who can't spell licence shouldn't be on the road.
I have a half way house ‘box in one of my cars, one of those ‘flappy paddle’ systems that used to wind Clarkson up so much. No pedal and stick, but still a ‘manual’ gearbox with clutch. Changes are commanded and moderated by the driver via the accelerator. Same sort of system as BMW SMG, Lambo E-gear, Ferrari F1 etc. Its very much 1990s tech.
As a sort of period hybrid manual/auto - It’s very involving and great fun. With a bit of specialist hardware/software tweaking, later versions of these systems can be made to work well. Maybe in the future these old systems might be an interesting possible option in any manual vs slush box debate regarding driver fun, because they do require engagement and practise to get right, and the development of skills to work around some obvious weaknesses, just like a normal manual does. The flip side is a rewarding drive when you learn how to get it right, and no chance of a ‘money shift’.
These systems are pretty much dead nowadays, long eclipsed by dual clutch systems and the modern torque converter auto.
As a sort of period hybrid manual/auto - It’s very involving and great fun. With a bit of specialist hardware/software tweaking, later versions of these systems can be made to work well. Maybe in the future these old systems might be an interesting possible option in any manual vs slush box debate regarding driver fun, because they do require engagement and practise to get right, and the development of skills to work around some obvious weaknesses, just like a normal manual does. The flip side is a rewarding drive when you learn how to get it right, and no chance of a ‘money shift’.
These systems are pretty much dead nowadays, long eclipsed by dual clutch systems and the modern torque converter auto.
BandOfBrothers said:
In cars with aggressive clutches and lightened flywheels it's absolutely necessary, unless your passengers to feel sick / think you never actually passed your test.
Only if you shift down when the revs are too high which is a poor driving habit. Shift down at the correct RPM and no need for heel toe and no kangarooing I’ve been up and down the country a fair few times this last month moving my cars and bikes between houses, and yesterday was another trip, this time North to South in my Yaris GR.
Despite it being a lot of A-roads and motorways, and the car being quite “busy” to drive, the manual gearbox still felt great.
A fortnight ago in the manual Emira it was annoying, and very annoying when I had an hour’s stop-start traffic close to home after a seven hour drive.
I probably still stick with my previous view of now only wanting a manual if the car’s low powered and “fun”, with autos for everything else.
I need to take either the Yaris or the Range Rover back up on Friday, to bring my new car down, so will see if a mid-sized 600bhp sporty convertible feels like it’d be better with a manual box.
I’d love to try the little electric Smart car on the journey, but with a real-world 40 mile range it’d likely drive me mad.
Despite it being a lot of A-roads and motorways, and the car being quite “busy” to drive, the manual gearbox still felt great.
A fortnight ago in the manual Emira it was annoying, and very annoying when I had an hour’s stop-start traffic close to home after a seven hour drive.
I probably still stick with my previous view of now only wanting a manual if the car’s low powered and “fun”, with autos for everything else.
I need to take either the Yaris or the Range Rover back up on Friday, to bring my new car down, so will see if a mid-sized 600bhp sporty convertible feels like it’d be better with a manual box.
I’d love to try the little electric Smart car on the journey, but with a real-world 40 mile range it’d likely drive me mad.
g7jhp][url said:
This will lead to a reduction in demand over time, which could lead to a drop in prices.
Back to this statement.Any change in value can be exploited either way by those preferring a manual gearbox.
If values go down then pick up a bargain manual.
If values go up, then depreciation should be less overall if demand outstrips supply.
Wheelspinning said:
My last manual car was a Ferrari which was nice with the whole clicky clacky thing going through the open gate.
Since then, it's been McLarens and the unbelievable speed that the paddles change up and down ( especially as how either paddle can change up or down ) is outrageous.
Keep it in auto for town driving is perfect, and it's never ever caught out whenever a quick burst of speed is needed.
The PDK on my 7mth old 992 GTS feels like a generation behind it, and definitely notably slower.
With noticing the slower PDK auto box, i cannot phathom why anyone would want a manual in this day and age; to me it would be like a major step back in time.
Interestingly, Porsche are reluctant to bid on 992 manuals as they are now trickiest move on, contrary to what the Porsche manual purists on here say.
My 2 young lads wouldn't go back to manuals and they are only 24 and 22. (M4 comp & C63s).
Just my tuppence worth; each to their own though.
The first thing that came to my mind reading this is… how much would a 24 year old pay to insure an M4 Competition?Since then, it's been McLarens and the unbelievable speed that the paddles change up and down ( especially as how either paddle can change up or down ) is outrageous.
Keep it in auto for town driving is perfect, and it's never ever caught out whenever a quick burst of speed is needed.
The PDK on my 7mth old 992 GTS feels like a generation behind it, and definitely notably slower.
With noticing the slower PDK auto box, i cannot phathom why anyone would want a manual in this day and age; to me it would be like a major step back in time.
Interestingly, Porsche are reluctant to bid on 992 manuals as they are now trickiest move on, contrary to what the Porsche manual purists on here say.
My 2 young lads wouldn't go back to manuals and they are only 24 and 22. (M4 comp & C63s).
Just my tuppence worth; each to their own though.
Ken_Code said:
I’ve been up and down the country a fair few times this last month moving my cars and bikes between houses, and yesterday was another trip, this time North to South in my Yaris GR.
Despite it being a lot of A-roads and motorways, and the car being quite “busy” to drive, the manual gearbox still felt great.
A fortnight ago in the manual Emira it was annoying, and very annoying when I had an hour’s stop-start traffic close to home after a seven hour drive.
I probably still stick with my previous view of now only wanting a manual if the car’s low powered and “fun”, with autos for everything else.
I need to take either the Yaris or the Range Rover back up on Friday, to bring my new car down, so will see if a mid-sized 600bhp sporty convertible feels like it’d be better with a manual box.
I’d love to try the little electric Smart car on the journey, but with a real-world 40 mile range it’d likely drive me mad.
Drive a 3.5 Emira V6 with the soporific auto box and you will be sure you made the right choice buying the manual even though it can be hard work in traffic.Despite it being a lot of A-roads and motorways, and the car being quite “busy” to drive, the manual gearbox still felt great.
A fortnight ago in the manual Emira it was annoying, and very annoying when I had an hour’s stop-start traffic close to home after a seven hour drive.
I probably still stick with my previous view of now only wanting a manual if the car’s low powered and “fun”, with autos for everything else.
I need to take either the Yaris or the Range Rover back up on Friday, to bring my new car down, so will see if a mid-sized 600bhp sporty convertible feels like it’d be better with a manual box.
I’d love to try the little electric Smart car on the journey, but with a real-world 40 mile range it’d likely drive me mad.
av185 said:
Drive a 3.5 Emira V6 auto and you will be sure you made the right choice buying the manual even though it can be hard work in traffic.
I’ve not tried one, is the gearbox not great?Given how “not great” I find the V6 engine that sounds like an awful combination.
I’ve never had a car before with (in terms of what I personally like) such a wonderful chassis and such an awful motor.
Ken_Code said:
av185 said:
Drive a 3.5 Emira V6 auto and you will be sure you made the right choice buying the manual even though it can be hard work in traffic.
I’ve not tried one, is the gearbox not great?Given how “not great” I find the V6 engine that sounds like an awful combination.
I’ve never had a car before with (in terms of what I personally like) such a wonderful chassis and such an awful motor.
More of a car for pootling around imo and at least it looks fantastic at the money and as you say it has a wonderful chassis (especially in tour set up with the fine hydraulic steering too imo).
av185 said:
Its an old lump the Toyota V6 and the low sub 7k rev limit and shortish gearing doesn't help either when you try to make progress. At least it sounds half decent up to 6k with the supercharger whine etc.
More of a car for pootling around imo and at least it looks fantastic at the money and as you say it has a wonderful chassis (especially in tour set up with the fine hydraulic steering too imo).
I’m going to miss mine, but if I ever do get another am likely to get the AMG engine and box.More of a car for pootling around imo and at least it looks fantastic at the money and as you say it has a wonderful chassis (especially in tour set up with the fine hydraulic steering too imo).
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well you hold yourself superior to auto licence holders, who you said shouldn't be allowed on the road.
Your exact words:
"I strongly believe, that people who CANNOT drive a manual (not someone who just chooses not to), and hasn't got the license for one, shouldn't really be allowed on the road."
Perhaps people who can't spell licence shouldn't be on the road.
don't play the ignorant card it doesn't look good.Your exact words:
"I strongly believe, that people who CANNOT drive a manual (not someone who just chooses not to), and hasn't got the license for one, shouldn't really be allowed on the road."
Perhaps people who can't spell licence shouldn't be on the road.
As you yourself quoted, as i wrote in brackets, that I wasn't reffering to someone who happen to choose not to, I am reffering to those that actively choose not to, as some commentors here wrote, due to their knowledge that they don't feel qualified, or failed their manual test etc, and only managed to scrape by with an automatic one.
Obviously, as others here mentioned, some may only do an automatic one due to ilness, disability, or simply chose to do so, but are in reliaty able to drive one, just not their choice, than that is something else and not what I was talking about.
And, maybe I'll repeat your comment that my spelling of the word licence interchangibly between using an s or c seems to do with being able to drive (which you have yet to explain the correlation between them two), may we further the arguement to say that those that have no clue in differences in ways of spelling words also shouldn't be on the road, like i.e. someone that doesn't know that some spell it licence and some license?
How far would you go with your arguement...?
av185 said:
And those who spell particular perticular.
So I suppoise you're not used to typing where sometimes keys are pressed when typing fast and mistakenly typing the others...?But ok, I'll give it to you, I spelled one word wrongly.
Look at yourself how many times you spelled a word wrong when typing fast, and just keep it at that.
If my point hurt your feelings, than I am sorry about that, it was definitely not what I meant, but i am assuming that most commentors here can have a lgical mature conversation, and not get so worked up about someone else's views.
P.S. Someone here made a couple of point about my comment which did make me rethink what I wrote and did slightly change my point of view, very normal for a mature arguement, not....
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