Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Peloton25]

Davey S2 said:

Interesting Vid here about a chap at Romans who sourced an F1 for a big collection and comments how many rumours there are about cars for sale which turn out to be rubbish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkt8yUrhpl4

He does make some excellent points - what he failed to disclose in that self-promotion effort is that the "genuine car" that they eventually sourced was brokered for the seller through McLaren Special Operations and the contact he trusted held the role of Head of Sales for MSO. Found that a little funny as if you are considering an F1 you'd be foolish not to speak with them.

>8^)
ER

[McAndy]

flemke said:

I'm a V12 man. For me the perfect sports car would have a small-ish V12 (say 4L) and weight 1000 kg.

Lotus/Caterham build project.

[flemke]

Don1 said:

As a bonus question - are the different iterations of the V8 in your new McLarens different enough to distinguish between them, or do they start to blur?

Sorry, I overlooked replying to this.

There are minor differences across the engines, but at least on the road they make little difference. Weight, tyres, suspension, and gearshift times are more important factors.

[Don1]

Does that detract from the experience?

I only ask as when my 'fleet' was of a larger number, when I had a choice of cars that fit a task, I would often choose which one to drive based on the engine characteristics and my mood at that time.

For example to go ~15 miles on a selection of fun driving roads to collect a small package, there could be a toss-up between the Sagaris, the F430 or the Clio V6.

Or do the other driving experiences you mentioned (ride, gear change etc), make the decision easy enough for you?

[flemke]

Don1 said:

Does that detract from the experience?

I only ask as when my 'fleet' was of a larger number, when I had a choice of cars that fit a task, I would often choose which one to drive based on the engine characteristics and my mood at that time.

For example to go ~15 miles on a selection of fun driving roads to collect a small package, there could be a toss-up between the Sagaris, the F430 or the Clio V6.

Or do the other driving experiences you mentioned (ride, gear change etc), make the decision easy enough for you?

I think the question was about engines: were there sufficient differences amongst the engines of modern McLarens that those differences influenced my choice of car to drive on the day.

I really don't care for turbocharged engines. In something such as a 911 Turbo, where you're probably just loping along anyhow with no sense of urgency, the presence of the turbo is not that a big a deal. For any occasion where the thrill of driving is the objective, a turbo is not the best tool. At the moment, I think the only cars that I have with turbos are an A2, which is not exactly a thrill-of-driving machine, and some modern McLarens, which I intend to sell because, amongst other reasons, their engines do nothing for me. If I had to choose amongst the modern McLarens, then yes: handling, gear-change, weight, and steering quality would go into the decision.

[Vaud]

Out of interest, do McLaren track sales and do you envisage that they will follow up with you as to "why" you have sold?

[flemke]

Vaud said:

Out of interest, do McLaren track sales and do you envisage that they will follow up with you as to "why" you have sold?

Not in any formal way, but out of courtesy I would always tell them beforehand. They already know my intentions and the reasons for them.

[Soov330e]

flemke said:

Vaud said:

Out of interest, do McLaren track sales and do you envisage that they will follow up with you as to "why" you have sold?

Not in any formal way, but out of courtesy I would always tell them beforehand. They already know my intentions and the reasons for them.

Found in Ron Dennis' office earlier today.

[isaldiri]

flemke said:

I really don't care for turbocharged engines. In something such as a 911 Turbo, where you're probably just loping along anyhow with no sense of urgency, the presence of the turbo is not that a big a deal. For any occasion where the thrill of driving is the objective, a turbo is not the best tool. At the moment, I think the only cars that I have with turbos are an A2, which is not exactly a thrill-of-driving machine, and some modern McLarens, which I intend to sell because, amongst other reasons, their engines do nothing for me. If I had to choose amongst the modern McLarens, then yes: handling, gear-change, weight, and steering quality would go into the decision.

How different is the HS to drive compared to the 675? The HS looks very much, to my eyes at least, to be a 675 but with the 650's rear modified to fit the rear wing so apart from a bit more downforce and I'm told a fair bit more torque I'd imagine the 2 are pretty similar (much more so say than the HS to 650) even though the HS was supposed to not be a 675 variant?

[flemke]

isaldiri said:

flemke said:

I really don't care for turbocharged engines. In something such as a 911 Turbo, where you're probably just loping along anyhow with no sense of urgency, the presence of the turbo is not that a big a deal. For any occasion where the thrill of driving is the objective, a turbo is not the best tool. At the moment, I think the only cars that I have with turbos are an A2, which is not exactly a thrill-of-driving machine, and some modern McLarens, which I intend to sell because, amongst other reasons, their engines do nothing for me. If I had to choose amongst the modern McLarens, then yes: handling, gear-change, weight, and steering quality would go into the decision.

How different is the HS to drive compared to the 675? The HS looks very much, to my eyes at least, to be a 675 but with the 650's rear modified to fit the rear wing so apart from a bit more downforce and I'm told a fair bit more torque I'd imagine the 2 are pretty similar (much more so say than the HS to 650) even though the HS was supposed to not be a 675 variant?

I believe the point has been made before, but 675LT is to MSO HS as GT3 is to GT3 RS. Are the GT3 and GT3 RS the exact same car bar cosmetic differences? No. Is the RS closer to the "base" GT3 than it is to any other car made by any other manufacturer? Of course it is.

In practice, the HS absolutely was a variant of the 675. McLaren might say that it was not a "variant" in the sense that the HS was not an official "model", but rather a private commission that was produced in 25 units.

[isaldiri]

flemke said:

I believe the point has been made before, but 675LT is to MSO HS as GT3 is to GT3 RS. Are the GT3 and GT3 RS the exact same car bar cosmetic differences? No. Is the RS closer to the "base" GT3 than it is to any other car made by any other manufacturer? Of course it is.

In practice, the HS absolutely was a variant of the 675. McLaren might say that it was not a "variant" in the sense that the HS was not an official "model", but rather a private commission that was produced in 25 units.

Ah must have missed that previously comparing the HS to the 675 as the RS to gt3. Perhaps not unexpected but interesting all the same, cheers.

[flemke]

isaldiri said:

flemke said:

I believe the point has been made before, but 675LT is to MSO HS as GT3 is to GT3 RS. Are the GT3 and GT3 RS the exact same car bar cosmetic differences? No. Is the RS closer to the "base" GT3 than it is to any other car made by any other manufacturer? Of course it is.

In practice, the HS absolutely was a variant of the 675. McLaren might say that it was not a "variant" in the sense that the HS was not an official "model", but rather a private commission that was produced in 25 units.

Ah must have missed that previously comparing the HS to the 675 as the RS to gt3. Perhaps not unexpected but interesting all the same, cheers.

Yes, the HS drives like a "sharper" version of the 675.

[mikey k]

The M383T enginer McLaren is using is very good IME.
I've done 14k miles in my 650 and drive LT's, 570S, 570GT and 540. All of which use a variation of that engine.
It also goes in to the P1, 720S and HS.
I am amazed McLaren manage to produce so many cars each with such different characters all from the same engine - love it!

[flemke]

mikey k said:

The M383T enginer McLaren is using is very good IME.
I've done 14k miles in my 650 and drive LT's, 570S, 570GT and 540. All of which use a variation of that engine.
It also goes in to the P1, 720S and HS.
I am amazed McLaren manage to produce so many cars each with such different characters all from the same engine - love it!

I'm not saying that it is bad for what it is, but what it is is a turbocharged engine. It has some turbo-lag (even noticeable in the P1 with its electric "torque-fill") and the engine note is not that pleasing.

[VladD]

flemke said:

mikey k said:

The M383T enginer McLaren is using is very good IME.
I've done 14k miles in my 650 and drive LT's, 570S, 570GT and 540. All of which use a variation of that engine.
It also goes in to the P1, 720S and HS.
I am amazed McLaren manage to produce so many cars each with such different characters all from the same engine - love it!

I'm not saying that it is bad for what it is, but what it is is a turbocharged engine. It has some turbo-lag (even noticeable in the P1 with its electric "torque-fill") and the engine note is not that pleasing.

Based on that, would you ever consider something like an Aventador?

[Rich_W]

VladD said:

flemke said:

mikey k said:

The M383T enginer McLaren is using is very good IME.
I've done 14k miles in my 650 and drive LT's, 570S, 570GT and 540. All of which use a variation of that engine.
It also goes in to the P1, 720S and HS.
I am amazed McLaren manage to produce so many cars each with such different characters all from the same engine - love it!

I'm not saying that it is bad for what it is, but what it is is a turbocharged engine. It has some turbo-lag (even noticeable in the P1 with its electric "torque-fill") and the engine note is not that pleasing.

Based on that, would you ever consider something like an Aventador?

IIRC Flemke owned an Aventador. But it was days rather than weeks

[flemke]

Rich_W said:

VladD said:

flemke said:

mikey k said:

The M383T enginer McLaren is using is very good IME.
I've done 14k miles in my 650 and drive LT's, 570S, 570GT and 540. All of which use a variation of that engine.
It also goes in to the P1, 720S and HS.
I am amazed McLaren manage to produce so many cars each with such different characters all from the same engine - love it!

I'm not saying that it is bad for what it is, but what it is is a turbocharged engine. It has some turbo-lag (even noticeable in the P1 with its electric "torque-fill") and the engine note is not that pleasing.

Based on that, would you ever consider something like an Aventador?

IIRC Flemke owned an Aventador. But it was days rather than weeks

Correct. I had not bought it myself, but shall we say it was bought with my money but without my knowledge and eventually it came into my hands. I tried it, didn't like it, and immediately put it up for sale. Nice engine, but the car overall was too juvenile.

[Joe911]

flemke said:

Correct. I had not bought it myself, but shall we say it was bought with my money but without my knowledge and eventually it came into my hands. I tried it, didn't like it, and immediately put it up for sale. Nice engine, but the car overall was too juvenile.

I liked it (QED). It had presence - in a subtle, ridiculous, wonderful AC/DC kind of way.

[flemke]

Joe911 said:

flemke said:

Correct. I had not bought it myself, but shall we say it was bought with my money but without my knowledge and eventually it came into my hands. I tried it, didn't like it, and immediately put it up for sale. Nice engine, but the car overall was too juvenile.

I liked it (QED). It had presence - in a subtle, ridiculous, wonderful AC/DC kind of way.

Yes, they have a lot in common.

[VladD]

flemke said:

Correct. I had not bought it myself, but shall we say it was bought with my money but without my knowledge and eventually it came into my hands. I tried it, didn't like it, and immediately put it up for sale. Nice engine, but the car overall was too juvenile.

Hi Flemke, I'm intrigued by the first part of that reply, but that's your personal business, so I'll just ask you to kindly expand on the second part. Can you explain what you mean by "juvenile" for me? If you're taking about aesthetics, did you like it mechanically?