Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations

[andy tims]

Clio 182 Trophy

[Midnite Pumpkin]

Renault Megane R26.R, without a doubt. The type of car no manufacturers would ever have the balls to make again at this price point.

Truly astonishing car.

[DoubleD]

DomesticM said:

ffhard said:

FN2 Honda Civic type R
No others to add!

Ugly, engine is so boring and the power delivery is poor - literally everything the EP3 isn’t. Performance is weak for a hot hatch.

I like the look of the FN2 civic, it looks fast while stood still. Ive never thought that about the EP3 though.

[Midnite Pumpkin]

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

So with all the nostalgia around the RS Clio variants, what do they do better than say an M140i/Golf R/A45 AMG?

The only thing I can see they have going for them is that they're more fun, however the only the reason they're fun is because they reach their handling limits waaaayyyyy before the 3 I mentioned which technically makes them a far worse car.

They're not as fast, as practical, as comfy, as safe or have the tech that the new cars have.
A hot hatch is supposed to be a jack of all trades and as far as I can see, pretty much all of the new hot hatches are better at everything than the older ones.

This is the problem when people think more of everything is better.

Hot hatches are supposed to be fun and the best cars are more than the sum of their parts.

How much heavier are the cars you listed over an old Clio? 300kg? That makes a big difference when the road gets tight and twisty.

Couldn't agree more. Cars like M140i or Golf R don't deserve to be in the conversation and I've owned and driven them all. They're not iconic cars that stir emotions when driven, they just get you from A to B quickly, with artificial overrun sounds and noise coming through speakers. Too many people think 0-60 or BHP makes a good car. I'd take half the power of an M140i for something that is nimble and actually feels like you're driving it.

My vote was R26.R as its one of the best cars I've ever driven and I've driven everything there is having l worked at the countries leading specialist for 15 years selling Enzos and Veyron etc

[Midnite Pumpkin]

wab172uk said:

I've had a few Hot Hatches over the years, yet the one I really miss, and the one that was the most fun, was my 106 GTI. Loved that car.

Brilliant car!!!

[Midnite Pumpkin]

Benjamonk said:

SweptVolume said:

Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, because Busso

A mate of mine had one. I drove it many times. It was utterly flawed, utterly lovable and as you intimate, sounded utterly beautiful.

So true, I still own mine and every time it goes wrong, I want to sell it and then I look at it and drive it again and think I'd be mental. Stunning car with the best engine.

[Wil5]

FL A45 AMG
EP3 Type R
FK8 Type R

[PHuzzy]

Midnite Pumpkin said:

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

So with all the nostalgia around the RS Clio variants, what do they do better than say an M140i/Golf R/A45 AMG?

The only thing I can see they have going for them is that they're more fun, however the only the reason they're fun is because they reach their handling limits waaaayyyyy before the 3 I mentioned which technically makes them a far worse car.

They're not as fast, as practical, as comfy, as safe or have the tech that the new cars have.
A hot hatch is supposed to be a jack of all trades and as far as I can see, pretty much all of the new hot hatches are better at everything than the older ones.

This is the problem when people think more of everything is better.

Hot hatches are supposed to be fun and the best cars are more than the sum of their parts.

How much heavier are the cars you listed over an old Clio? 300kg? That makes a big difference when the road gets tight and twisty.

Couldn't agree more. Cars like M140i or Golf R don't deserve to be in the conversation and I've owned and driven them all. They're not iconic cars that stir emotions when driven, they just get you from A to B quickly, with artificial overrun sounds and noise coming through speakers. Too many people think 0-60 or BHP makes a good car. I'd take half the power of an M140i for something that is nimble and actually feels like you're driving it.

My vote was R26.R as its one of the best cars I've ever driven and I've driven everything there is having l worked at the countries leading specialist for 15 years selling Enzos and Veyron etc

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

If I wanted a compromised car that is primarily fun, I'd buy a Caterham/Lotus, hell even an mx5 is more fun than a Clio.

[Turbojuice]

PHuzzy said:

Midnite Pumpkin said:

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

So with all the nostalgia around the RS Clio variants, what do they do better than say an M140i/Golf R/A45 AMG?

The only thing I can see they have going for them is that they're more fun, however the only the reason they're fun is because they reach their handling limits waaaayyyyy before the 3 I mentioned which technically makes them a far worse car.

They're not as fast, as practical, as comfy, as safe or have the tech that the new cars have.
A hot hatch is supposed to be a jack of all trades and as far as I can see, pretty much all of the new hot hatches are better at everything than the older ones.

This is the problem when people think more of everything is better.

Hot hatches are supposed to be fun and the best cars are more than the sum of their parts.

How much heavier are the cars you listed over an old Clio? 300kg? That makes a big difference when the road gets tight and twisty.

Couldn't agree more. Cars like M140i or Golf R don't deserve to be in the conversation and I've owned and driven them all. They're not iconic cars that stir emotions when driven, they just get you from A to B quickly, with artificial overrun sounds and noise coming through speakers. Too many people think 0-60 or BHP makes a good car. I'd take half the power of an M140i for something that is nimble and actually feels like you're driving it.

My vote was R26.R as its one of the best cars I've ever driven and I've driven everything there is having l worked at the countries leading specialist for 15 years selling Enzos and Veyron etc

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

If I wanted a compromised car that is primarily fun, I'd buy a Caterham/Lotus, hell even an mx5 is more fun than a Clio.

In my view the M140i is much more of a German muscle car than a hot hatch. They take a 1 series, shove a big engine in it, and don't touch anything else, much in the same way the Americans have done for decades with their mainstream muscle cars. Renaultsports, Type-R's and the like are near totally different cars to their standard hatchback brothers and that's the key thing for me and what makes them so special.

[usualdog1]

Abarth 595 180 Competizione

[tony dumble]

1 megane r26r
2 megane mk3 trophy R
3 Clio v6
Amazing hot hatches

[Patrick Bateman]

PHuzzy said:

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

When we're talking about the best hot hatch who else is taking things like apple car play into consideration?!

[BricktopST205]

R26R seems to be winning and can see why. Even the bog standard R26 is up there and criminally under valued.

EP3 Type R and Alfa 147 would have to fill out the top 3. Hot hatch is all about the engine and turbo cars leave a lot to be desired despite how fast they are.

Honourable mention to Suzuki for their iterations of the swift sports give a true retro hot hatch feel to the market.

[swanny71]

Clio 182 Trophy
BMW 130i

Two of my favourite cars, ever!

[KGP04]

Mini GP1

[PHuzzy]

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

When we're talking about the best hot hatch who else is taking things like apple car play into consideration?!

Exactly, hardly anyone by the looks of it.
In my eyes at least hot hatch is a compromise of something that you can use for all occasions, fun/commuting/shopping/business use etc.

The best hot hatch then should be able to do all of these well, so therefore if it can't do them all well, it's not the best.

[Zarco]

PHuzzy said:

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

When we're talking about the best hot hatch who else is taking things like apple car play into consideration?!

Exactly, hardly anyone by the looks of it.
In my eyes at least hot hatch is a compromise of something that you can use for all occasions, fun/commuting/shopping/business use etc.

The best hot hatch then should be able to do all of these well, so therefore if it can't do them all well, it's not the best.

I think what you are missing is many people rate fun more than the rest of your categories.

[Baldchap]

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

When we're talking about the best hot hatch who else is taking things like apple car play into consideration?!

But it's a serious consideration.

Think about it. A hot hatch that only does the hot is just a crap, invariably FWD attempt at a sports car. Buy an Elise if you want a track car that's a PITA on the daily commute, at least you'll have something decent to drive on track.

The point of a hot hatch is it does the every day stuff without being a PITA and can entertain in between being normal and useable. If it's hard, uncomfortable and badly specced, it's the aforementioned crap sports car.

[Baldchap]

Zarco said:

PHuzzy said:

Patrick Bateman said:

PHuzzy said:

Well I'd much rather be able to use the M140i on the motorway and in traffic with adaptive cruise, carplay/android auto and relax in a more comfortable environment and then when the mood takes me, flick it into sports mode and enjoy a much better turn of pace, the ability to drift the car and still have fun.
That's the point of a hot hatch, a car that can do everything.

When we're talking about the best hot hatch who else is taking things like apple car play into consideration?!

Exactly, hardly anyone by the looks of it.
In my eyes at least hot hatch is a compromise of something that you can use for all occasions, fun/commuting/shopping/business use etc.

The best hot hatch then should be able to do all of these well, so therefore if it can't do them all well, it's not the best.

I think what you are missing is many people rate fun more than the rest of your categories.

So why are they buying a Clio instead of an Elise?

[lemmingjames]

The R26R and the DC5 shouldnt be on the list as they are too hardcore as a 'hothatch'. Accomplished they are (had a DC5 for 7 years as a DD), but they arent really a DD car as such.

On a day to day basis, the EP3 would be a better choice over the DC5