JLR on 3 day week

[anonymous-user]

btom said:

You are missing the point.

No one is saying they are the paragon of reliability but in every statistical metric they are better than the majority of comparable manufacturers. The only difference is that every thread regarding Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc isn't bombarded with unreliability jibes despite them, on average, performing worse.

I think that's due to historically LR have suffered with reliability and the Germans have not, it seems only relatively recently the Germans have been putting out 'lesser' cars due to a number of factors; volume, bean counting, growth, expansion and generally 'just being able to get away with it ' with a mediocre base model with a German badge.

It's quite similar to deep rooted beliefs or perception of brands. If you put a £5k BMW on your drive some will genuinely think you're doing well, put a £30k Mondeo there and they will think you don't make enough money.

Then there's the fact that the Germans have huge resources, wealth and R&D teams whereas JLR do not.

I'm not disagreeing with you point, I'm just trying to guess why this perception lies.

[Burwood]

I’d put money on all this whinging by JLR us nothing more than a precursor to tapping UK Plc for some cash.

[Jazzy Jag]

Burwood said:

I’d put money on all this whinging by JLR us nothing more than a precursor to tapping UK Plc for some cash.

They've already had a load of money from the EU to build a factory in Slovakia.

[Sa Calobra]

What's my personal experience?

I once had a bad experience with a Citroen and the main dealer. Does that mean all Citroens are bad?

A very small test sample to base any opinion on. Is that your angle that I should follow?

No JLR aren't better than most. If the usual poorly perception crowd can do better.

[anonymous-user]

Sa Calobra said:

What's my personal experience?

I once had a bad experience with a Citroen and the main dealer. Does that mean all Citroens are bad?

A very small test sample to base any opinion on. Is that your angle that I should follow?

No JLR aren't better than most. If the usual poorly perception crowd can do better.

I’m not sure what that actually means

[fatboy b]

Kierkegaard said:

I think that's due to historically LR have suffered with reliability and the Germans have not, it seems only relatively recently the Germans have been putting out 'lesser' cars due to a number of factors; volume, bean counting, growth, expansion and generally 'just being able to get away with it ' with a mediocre base model with a German badge.

I think that people who believe German cars are reliable need to remove their rose-tinted glasses. My three BMWs were warranty queens as were my Audis. The o/h’s current Golf - bought new in 2016 has been in the dealer more times in 2.5 years than all my three Jags in 6 years put together. German reliability is a myth.

[Sa Calobra]

Don't post a obtuse question then

[anonymous-user]

Sa Calobra said:

Don't post a obtuse question then

It wasn’t remotely obtuse

It was very clear namely have you any direct experience of JLR reliability? I don’t see why that would provoke any ire ?

The point being, this thread like so many about the company has zeroed in on tales of woe about reliability largely from an anecdotal as opposed to first hand perspective. The implication therefore would seem to be the three day week is a corollary of unreliability.

Or Is that an unreasonable inference on my part ?

[No ideas for a name]

Brooking10 said:

The point being, this thread like so many about the company has zeroed in on tales of woe about reliability largely from an anecdotal as opposed to first hand perspective. The implication therefore would seem to be the three day week is a corollary of unreliability.

Or Is that an unreasonable inference on my part ?

I realise I have derailed the thread a little lately with personal experience.
Oddly though I have had hell with my XF-S, I still wouldn't say JLR (or at least Jag - as that is my experience) is at all unreliable.
For the last 18-19 years I have had Jags - not once have I been left at the side of the road in several hundred thousands of miles.
I have had some work done - even a 'free' engine change in the nikasil days - but no fighting with JLR over that - they just ordered it and did it after a service - even though it was well out of warranty.
Compare that the the stories of timing chains on some BMW engines.
My XF-S problems are not 'unreliability' as such - it just has never been right. There may be reasons for that, but it is again more of a dealer issue than JLR themselves.

Anecdotally, I would say Jag has been fine since Ford's involvement around the late 1990's. First Jag for me was a X308 - most things seemed sorted on that - I hear tails of the days when it was all mostly Lucas electrics, and many issues.

JLR's problems - if they actualy exist - are more to do with going down the diesel route, an early switch to trying electric vehicles, and a shift towards marketing pushing Jags that look like Landrovers rather than cars. I think they are manipulating the fear over brexit for their own ends too. Never really understood the push to diesel - I have never had one. Being 'pushed' due to Government taxation only makes sense for lower end cars.
I suspect with the early switch to electric, they will actually do quite well in the near future.

[DMZ]

Jaguar is at least trying to do something a bit different in amongst many samey German cars and anything different is good in my book. From my limited experience with Jaguars, they are less rounded though as you would expect from a company with much less development budget. The only Jaaaaaag that I’ve driven is the F-Type R and it’s ok-ish. Being mislabelled as a Porsche competitor does it no favours when it’s more like an AMG SL but as an SL competitor it’s nice.

I think the latest XF is a stunning car, easily the best looking in its class. I find the interiors a little less inspiring and the infotainment outright confusing. But if I were looking for a car like it, yeah why not. I know from experience that Mercs and BMW have plenty of faults too and plenty of horror stories around too. BMW 2l diesel timing chain, I’m looking at you.

Probably the least reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned was a Disco so I kinda get where people are coming from with JLR. It was a very nice bus though that could get through anything so I forgive it.

[Digga]

Brooking10 said:

Sa Calobra said:

What's my personal experience?

I once had a bad experience with a Citroen and the main dealer. Does that mean all Citroens are bad?

A very small test sample to base any opinion on. Is that your angle that I should follow?

No JLR aren't better than most. If the usual poorly perception crowd can do better.

I’m not sure what that actually means

He doesn't know that Citroens are st.

[stumpage]

DMZ said:

I think the latest XF is a stunning car, easily the best looking in its class. I find the interiors a little less inspiring and the infotainment outright confusing.

Try the latest Infotainment, I was having loads of problems with mine (freezing, switching off) and Jaguar gave it an update to the new software. Has really transformed it, it now works really smooth, now has apple car play and Android whatever it is, clearer menus etc, a massive improvement.

[carte blanche]

Burwood said:

It’s not a double standard at all. One group made some poor choices. The other group have made dodgy deals their way of life. Rotten to the core.

Genuinely surprised to read this because in India Tata have a reputation for being one of the few large conglomerates with a social conscience, they engage in loads of philanthropic activity
http://www.tatatrusts.org

I and my family in India have always bought Tata products on this basis, so if you have any evidence to back your assertion that they are 'rotten to the core' I'd be interested to read it so that I can make a more informed buying decision next time. I follow the Indian media closely and have not noticed anything being reported there recently.

[btom]

carte blanche said:

Genuinely surprised to read this because in India Tata have a reputation for being one of the few large conglomerates with a social conscience, they engage in loads of philanthropic activity
http://www.tatatrusts.org

I and my family in India have always bought Tata products on this basis, so if you have any evidence to back your assertion that they are 'rotten to the core' I'd be interested to read it so that I can make a more informed buying decision next time. I follow the Indian media closely and have not noticed anything being reported there recently.

Its a strawman argument. He proposes rumoured (financial) corruption by Tata (the owner of a manufacturer) is of greater concern than fraudulent environmental shenanigans designed to poison your children* that VW and other actual German manufacturers engaged in and placed on actual vehicles and who have subsequently been punished for to the tune of $X Billions.

• For clarity these are probably different children to the under age hookers VW used to ply with drugs before they were passed around for the pleasure of fat middle aged men.

[Sa Calobra]

Brooking10 said:

Sa Calobra said:

Don't post a obtuse question then

It wasn’t remotely obtuse

It was very clear namely have you any direct experience of JLR reliability? I don’t see why that would provoke any ire ?

The point being, this thread like so many about the company has zeroed in on tales of woe about reliability largely from an anecdotal as opposed to first hand perspective. The implication therefore would seem to be the three day week is a corollary of unreliability.

Or Is that an unreasonable inference on my part ?

You are trying too hard.

The three day week is down to many factors.

Interms of your 'have you owned one'? This isn't a heresay, heard down the pub stuff.

It's there in tables. In factual information.

Owning one may infact give you a biased view.

This arguing isn't going anywhere.

[anonymous-user]

Sa Calobra said:

Brooking10 said:

Sa Calobra said:

Don't post a obtuse question then

It wasn’t remotely obtuse

It was very clear namely have you any direct experience of JLR reliability? I don’t see why that would provoke any ire ?

The point being, this thread like so many about the company has zeroed in on tales of woe about reliability largely from an anecdotal as opposed to first hand perspective. The implication therefore would seem to be the three day week is a corollary of unreliability.

Or Is that an unreasonable inference on my part ?

You are trying too hard.

The three day week is down to many factors.

Interms of your 'have you owned one'? This isn't a heresay, heard down the pub stuff.

It's there in tables. In factual information.

Owning one may infact give you a biased view.

This arguing isn't going anywhere.

It’s neither arguing nor expending too much effort

I will confess though that the frequent JLR reliability jposts are not reflective of my personal experience of 6 of their cars in succession from new.

[Sa Calobra]

I've owned numerous Subarus. My personal experience is one thing. The wider, bigger picture can be different.

Like I said I'm a fan of JLRs styling, just not post-sale stats.

[Fast Bug]

From talking to fleet managers that have kicked JLR product off thier fleets it's not the breakdowns so to speak, it's how the deal with them. All manufacturers have reliability issues from time to time, and when you consider how much technology is in a car it's understandable that cars may breakdown. Mercedes/BMW/Audi get the customer back on the road with the minimum of fuss in a replacement car and get the car turned round in a dealership and back on the road asap. With JLR they all say they spent ages chasing the manufacturer and chasing the dealer for updates on the car and to get it back on the road. After a while they think, bugger this and pull JLR off the company car listings as they don't want the ballache. Carry on like that and you end up losing the fleet market which in the case of MB is over 30% of sales pa, and it's very hard to shake a bad reputation once you've got it.

[CambsBill]

F1GTRUeno said:

CambsBill said:

I'd say JLR might be counting themselves a bit lucky compared to Audi, whose sales across Europe fell by 56% in September, sales in Germany being almost 70% down

But hey, lets just focus on JLR 'cos we like to give them a good kicking

The thread is about JLR...

Yes, as others have observed there seems to be a clique of JLR haters on PH which results in threads like this more often than for, say, certain German manufacturers.

By the way, October sales figures just announced by the SMMT. Jaguar are +82% YoY, but please come up with a reason why that's down to bad management, rubbish models etc.

By the way, Audi down 52% YoY - following on from September they're either building up huge stocks somewhere or they'll also be cutting production.

[Ares]

CambsBill said:

Yes, as others have observed there seems to be a clique of JLR haters on PH which results in threads like this more often than for, say, certain German manufacturers.

By the way, October sales figures just announced by the SMMT. Jaguar are +82% YoY, but please come up with a reason why that's down to bad management, rubbish models etc.

By the way, Audi down 52% YoY - following on from September they're either building up huge stocks somewhere or they'll also be cutting production.

I think there are an equal number of JLR fans that get increasingly despondent that there is nothing in the range to compete/appeal. Thats me, and has been for 10 years.