Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc???????
Discussion
nyxster said:
If Tom is a smart boy (and he should be given his success so far) he should be thinking about getting into doing a proper series of 60 minute workout videos - one of the most lucrative sectors and something he can put a new spin on the trope with his cars and lifestyle content, which then enables him to cross sell his brands and monetise at the same time. There's a good opportunity to do something different in that space.
- insert creepy sideways looking moon emoji*
nyxster said:
that's a real quick and dirty guide, the devil is in the detail in termsc of finetuning fb ads, web seo etc and thats where its won or lost, but just even following this basic roadmap you should get your first 1k fans.
to go into any greater detail we should probably do it in a new thread in the business forum to avoid hijacking the thread.
I recall doing a semi-black hat exercise in selling an e-book on puppy training using online classifieds, disposable webmail accounts, autoresponders and Clickbank. That mailing list became a solid source of targeted buyers for pet products, and developed into a stand-alone online retailing/dropship business.
I dabbled in the adult sector as well - unusual niches were always good converters (models in lingerie smoking cigarettes was my most lucrative niche, and anything feet related seemed to convert well), but I found that hosting adult and family content on the same servers was detrimental to the pagerank of the clean sites. I also found that a lot of the usual content aggregators had a darker edge that I didn't feel entirely comfortable with sourcing material from..
Like anything though, you need to stay innovative to keep ahead, and towards the end I spread myself too thin across too many different ideas and websites ( although a lot have naturally expired, I still own around 200 domains!) and found that other people had deeper pockets and wider knowledge around SEO than I, and as social media was quickly evolving I lost a lot of enthusiasm for the business.
One thing hasn't changed, and that is that it is not as easy to make a decent success from online revenue as many people would like to believe - every credit for those that can make a living from it, or at least a decent second income.
You're totally right Steve - the online market moves faster than a spanked rat. I did the adult thing back when we were on 58k modems while I was at uni when you could still get 9.99 a month subscriptions just doung stand T&A fare, i was doing a media production course and needed to fund 15 grands worth of pro SLR gear and had a large pool of broke attractive girls who were happy to get their kit off for 150 quid. It paid for all my kit and bought a brand new Alfa and then a 964 - about that time the internet was starting to take off - me and three mates stalked provincial nightclubs and it was a very goid business for a while, that paid for me to move up to l0ndon and rent a big warehouse conversion and set up a digital agency, At the time you had a few big players like razorfish and e-commerce website projects were running at 250k and up, I ended up in a 512TR by 25, the adult model changed and itbecame about free clickbait sites and affiliate marketing then pretty much everything went free. Now video is the big thing but as you say, you need some strong niche - the faketaxi guy is making good money, but its a filthy business to be in so better left to the morally fluid these days )
Websites went the same way as everyone piled into the market and you had people getting their kids to do it, now its pretty much all automated like squarespace you need to be an A list agency running big brand accounts. My last agency we had a 75 grand a month burn rate and even on a pipeline of projects from big companies and outsourcing we weren't making money - its a lot more lucrative to try and knock a instagram out of the park from your bedroom these days.
Ebay - same story - I can remember the days of making 10k a day in unopposed verticals and now the whole market is awash with penny traders and chinese bucketshops.
I started my publishing business as a hobby really after coming back from LA to look after an elderly parent. At the start pretty much anyone could put up 99c books full of rubbish (erotica was a big earner) and make a living, now the market is saturated you need to be in the top 5 percent with a very strong platform to stay visible and have a very strong brand not to mention writing talent. Youtube was the same story - the early channels like Fel8x really hit that bubble, but the copycats have flooded the market so its hard to break out.
And that brings us to the 'next big thing'. the explosion in online content channels like amazon prime, netflix, google play not to mention conventional channel online platforms means they are struggling to keep up production to meet demand.
unlike youtube, kindle and other platforms with low barriers to entry even though digital means costs have come down tenfold from the panavision and 35mm rushes days, you still need a lot more in the way of budget and technical capability. Pretty much any idiot can pick up a point and shoot DSLR but mastering a broadcast/cinema rig with all the toys plus all the post work in grading is still a big technical skill. We're working on a 90 minute pilot drama at the moment and realistically there is 12 months of work to prep for the shoot, it took 2 days of training to cover the basics on the arri alexa, and that is based on already having the skills on sony f55 kit and with all the DoP knowledge from film. in a way that is a good thing that will stop the paid market being priced down the way the book and other content had because we still have to pay equity and union rates for talent and the 'proper' cinema lens from arri run at 10k-30k each so there is a marked step up from the costs of user generated content on youtube.
You touched on the change in SEO - google is very smart now - they are really all about social proof across multiple channels when ranking content, so its weeding out the clickbait farmers and you need to focus down on one are and provide some proper content that has good network effects across different platforms - effectively twitter, yt, fb et al work in concert now to rank popularity so its become almost impossible to game the system as each platform has different ranking dynamics.
the mailing list really is making a comeback thanks to facebook really monetising hard on businesses and cutting organic reach to buttons - but it has to be superfocused and valuable to avoid the spam folder. it's about curating the heck out of your audience to get exactly the demographic you need - just using data analytics i went from 1 gbp per like to around 16 pence per like on high quality traffic.
The way to grow bow is literally 'laddering' - you spend 250 quid to get 1,000 subs that makes you 2,500, spend that to get you 10,000 and so on - you hit a wall at about 20k where you really need to start deep diving to find new tranches of users to get up to 100k, once you get beyond a certain point then the platforms start doing the heavylifting for you and organic reach begins the snowball effect.
it does take a lot of patience - most people quit before they see the success and like most businesses it's the most committed who yield the biggest gains - i reinvested most of my income into a growth strategy to grow audience share, the advantage of that is when you turn the tap on more money comes out for the same effort. Also the route to success is not always the most obvious - I love supercars but don't have anything to add to that space, since i can potentially make more revenue from drama & documentary production that is the route I took since ultimately about saying 'i want to earn this amount of money to achieve these goals'.
I think the important takeaway is the platforms are designed that anyone can have a go regardless of their budget. You don't need a supercar - pretty much every interest out there has a unserved audience you can tap, the audience will always consume more content than you are able to produce so 'a rising tide lifts all boats.'
the big thing that stops 99 percent of people is laziness. 'itl'll never work, 'or i don't have the skills' 'i don't have time' is just an exscuse that you are too lazy really to do it and don't want to succeed badly enough to overcome barriers. There is one thing that successful people have in common is their work ethic to have a go at anything, learn whatever they need and put all their available time into achieving goals. Yes youtube and content can get you into ferrari, but its no different than any other business in that you'll still need to work harder than everyone else and be the best at it - otherwise everyone would be driving ferraris.
I'm not trying to lecture, but really this whole thread's premise was 'are these dhannels a scam' - suggesting that supercars come from the magic money tree and can't be bought as a product of business enterprise - youtube is a business like any other, if someone has mastered the youtube model to earn big numbers then that isn't a scam - it's just being proficient at media marketing. Suggesting people must be drug dealers or bank of mum and dad really just reflects a mindset that the only way people get money is when people give it to them or they commit crime because 'i work hard at the chicken factory and i can't afford a ferrari'. its not about how hard you work, but how smart you work and if you think it can't be done then you've just set yourself up for automatic failure. Obviously we have rich twunts like mo, but then guys like Tom and all points in between - so that just shows there is more than one route to the top - as some of the examples I have given there is always a market opportunity somewhere that has a low barrier to entry, the difference between making money and not is spotting a potential opportunity and having a go with it rather than finding reasons not to. if you get into thst mindset, even if you are on the dole today there is no reason you can't be sat in a supercar within 10 years. it will take sacrifices of social life and some risk - but thats the whole reason why so few people achieve it, and the very opportunity for those that do put the extra in to rise above the milk.
remember google is cheaper than university. if you put 36k saved on tuition fees into a business budget you could get the majority of education you need to succeed at it online and on youtube, with the advantage of 3 years saved when you can be out earning money.
thinking about it i should be taking more of my own medicine and i should stop posting here and spend the time writing one of those american YOUR MIND IS YOUR SUCCESS scamphlets to bung on kindle.
Websites went the same way as everyone piled into the market and you had people getting their kids to do it, now its pretty much all automated like squarespace you need to be an A list agency running big brand accounts. My last agency we had a 75 grand a month burn rate and even on a pipeline of projects from big companies and outsourcing we weren't making money - its a lot more lucrative to try and knock a instagram out of the park from your bedroom these days.
Ebay - same story - I can remember the days of making 10k a day in unopposed verticals and now the whole market is awash with penny traders and chinese bucketshops.
I started my publishing business as a hobby really after coming back from LA to look after an elderly parent. At the start pretty much anyone could put up 99c books full of rubbish (erotica was a big earner) and make a living, now the market is saturated you need to be in the top 5 percent with a very strong platform to stay visible and have a very strong brand not to mention writing talent. Youtube was the same story - the early channels like Fel8x really hit that bubble, but the copycats have flooded the market so its hard to break out.
And that brings us to the 'next big thing'. the explosion in online content channels like amazon prime, netflix, google play not to mention conventional channel online platforms means they are struggling to keep up production to meet demand.
unlike youtube, kindle and other platforms with low barriers to entry even though digital means costs have come down tenfold from the panavision and 35mm rushes days, you still need a lot more in the way of budget and technical capability. Pretty much any idiot can pick up a point and shoot DSLR but mastering a broadcast/cinema rig with all the toys plus all the post work in grading is still a big technical skill. We're working on a 90 minute pilot drama at the moment and realistically there is 12 months of work to prep for the shoot, it took 2 days of training to cover the basics on the arri alexa, and that is based on already having the skills on sony f55 kit and with all the DoP knowledge from film. in a way that is a good thing that will stop the paid market being priced down the way the book and other content had because we still have to pay equity and union rates for talent and the 'proper' cinema lens from arri run at 10k-30k each so there is a marked step up from the costs of user generated content on youtube.
You touched on the change in SEO - google is very smart now - they are really all about social proof across multiple channels when ranking content, so its weeding out the clickbait farmers and you need to focus down on one are and provide some proper content that has good network effects across different platforms - effectively twitter, yt, fb et al work in concert now to rank popularity so its become almost impossible to game the system as each platform has different ranking dynamics.
the mailing list really is making a comeback thanks to facebook really monetising hard on businesses and cutting organic reach to buttons - but it has to be superfocused and valuable to avoid the spam folder. it's about curating the heck out of your audience to get exactly the demographic you need - just using data analytics i went from 1 gbp per like to around 16 pence per like on high quality traffic.
The way to grow bow is literally 'laddering' - you spend 250 quid to get 1,000 subs that makes you 2,500, spend that to get you 10,000 and so on - you hit a wall at about 20k where you really need to start deep diving to find new tranches of users to get up to 100k, once you get beyond a certain point then the platforms start doing the heavylifting for you and organic reach begins the snowball effect.
it does take a lot of patience - most people quit before they see the success and like most businesses it's the most committed who yield the biggest gains - i reinvested most of my income into a growth strategy to grow audience share, the advantage of that is when you turn the tap on more money comes out for the same effort. Also the route to success is not always the most obvious - I love supercars but don't have anything to add to that space, since i can potentially make more revenue from drama & documentary production that is the route I took since ultimately about saying 'i want to earn this amount of money to achieve these goals'.
I think the important takeaway is the platforms are designed that anyone can have a go regardless of their budget. You don't need a supercar - pretty much every interest out there has a unserved audience you can tap, the audience will always consume more content than you are able to produce so 'a rising tide lifts all boats.'
the big thing that stops 99 percent of people is laziness. 'itl'll never work, 'or i don't have the skills' 'i don't have time' is just an exscuse that you are too lazy really to do it and don't want to succeed badly enough to overcome barriers. There is one thing that successful people have in common is their work ethic to have a go at anything, learn whatever they need and put all their available time into achieving goals. Yes youtube and content can get you into ferrari, but its no different than any other business in that you'll still need to work harder than everyone else and be the best at it - otherwise everyone would be driving ferraris.
I'm not trying to lecture, but really this whole thread's premise was 'are these dhannels a scam' - suggesting that supercars come from the magic money tree and can't be bought as a product of business enterprise - youtube is a business like any other, if someone has mastered the youtube model to earn big numbers then that isn't a scam - it's just being proficient at media marketing. Suggesting people must be drug dealers or bank of mum and dad really just reflects a mindset that the only way people get money is when people give it to them or they commit crime because 'i work hard at the chicken factory and i can't afford a ferrari'. its not about how hard you work, but how smart you work and if you think it can't be done then you've just set yourself up for automatic failure. Obviously we have rich twunts like mo, but then guys like Tom and all points in between - so that just shows there is more than one route to the top - as some of the examples I have given there is always a market opportunity somewhere that has a low barrier to entry, the difference between making money and not is spotting a potential opportunity and having a go with it rather than finding reasons not to. if you get into thst mindset, even if you are on the dole today there is no reason you can't be sat in a supercar within 10 years. it will take sacrifices of social life and some risk - but thats the whole reason why so few people achieve it, and the very opportunity for those that do put the extra in to rise above the milk.
remember google is cheaper than university. if you put 36k saved on tuition fees into a business budget you could get the majority of education you need to succeed at it online and on youtube, with the advantage of 3 years saved when you can be out earning money.
thinking about it i should be taking more of my own medicine and i should stop posting here and spend the time writing one of those american YOUR MIND IS YOUR SUCCESS scamphlets to bung on kindle.
motoroller said:
Excellent information there, will take a while to mull it all over.
TGE - how do we find out more about the seminar?
the best way to deal with it without getting overwhelmed is to create an ordered tasklist, then just set aside say 30 minutes 'brew time' a day - i call it brew time because most people have at least 30 minutes spare in a day they piss about having a brew reading a paper or trolling pistonheads. then just aim to do one task on your list per session while you have your brew. you'll quickly get into a routine and make progress - when you have an evil day job its all about time management. Simply turning time spent killing boredom into productive work on a sude venture is the key to it. Theres a now well known kindle author who swapped from reading books on his daily train commute to writing them. he turned 2 hours wasted a day into a near on million a year of book sales after a few years. I generally do 2 x 2 hours writing a day, then do all my social media marketing and website management on a saturday - that provides me with a sizeable passive income and frees up the rest of my time to work on film projects and other business opportunities. I'd say it took me about a year to get to the point where just my book royalties paid all my bills to stop doing my day job, and 3 years in I'm earning comfortably more in passive income from work I already produced to start financing other ventures such as my film project. Even if you just devote an hour or two a day you can get to the point where you're earning enough to pay the mortgage or buy a nicer car - you don't have to shoot for the moon - 12-24k a year is a very doable passible income.TGE - how do we find out more about the seminar?
if you want the lowest effort/maximum return i hear gay erotica short stories are an absoloute cashcow.
jon- said:
Pff, currently 43 views per sub per month. Do I win? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEvB1bmKjPWZ3V1wS...
Given I only upload a video every other month at the moment, it shows HOW f
kING HARD IT IS TO GET PEOPLE TO SUB TO TYRE RELATED STUFF.
rant over.
Do you have Instagram? Someone called Tyre Reviews followed me on there for a day then unfollowed.Given I only upload a video every other month at the moment, it shows HOW f
kING HARD IT IS TO GET PEOPLE TO SUB TO TYRE RELATED STUFF.rant over.
[quote=nyxster
but you do get 70 percent cut of retail on digital sales and 60 percent on rentals for full length feature content hrough itunes, amazon et al. to put that into context a single documentary/film shifting 100k copies will earn out 2-3 times what shmee makes on his entire year's production revenue from youtube with 100m views.
[/quote]
Yup!
Those crappy gangster UK movies made on a £70k budget do £500k or so a pop just in the first release week if you can get a "name" to promote them.
but you do get 70 percent cut of retail on digital sales and 60 percent on rentals for full length feature content hrough itunes, amazon et al. to put that into context a single documentary/film shifting 100k copies will earn out 2-3 times what shmee makes on his entire year's production revenue from youtube with 100m views.
[/quote]
Yup!
Those crappy gangster UK movies made on a £70k budget do £500k or so a pop just in the first release week if you can get a "name" to promote them.
nyxster said:
if you want the lowest effort/maximum return i hear gay erotica short stories are an absoloute cashcow.
Do you think that elbow deep fisting is a profitable niche? So far there's one big (and I mean gaping huge) playerette in that space so it might be a good time to stick my hands into it perhaps?VGTICE said:
You're not talking about Lumitact or universityofguns by any chance?
Dunno about brand names.Used to be angles like this
But you could go buy them on aliexpress and they would ship them direct to customer
Cost of goods: $4.69
Sale price: $29
Revenue: $24.31
BUT
You would run a funnel so after they added the torch it would say SPECIAL OFFER get this tactical knife worth $70 for just $10 only with this purchase.... so people would end up buying a claimed $300's worth of stuff for $100 in total and it would get shipped from China directly to them and only cost the seller $25. $75 made per customer.
On FB that would probably cost under $5 per customer easily.
So $70 made per sale on autopilot x thousands.
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