RE: Noble M600 - First Delivery Imminent
Discussion
Adrian W said:
AdamPT said:
it is far too kit car for me, even at half the price unfortunately.
Can you please explane what this means, I have seen it close up and don't undestand what you are saying. Look at arguably the only two recent entrants to this market, Pagani and McLaren (excluding F1, which was approaching 20 years ago since their last effort) and compare them to the Noble. Whilst I appreciate those cars are a very different proposition to the Noble, to be a success and enter this market all the elements I mentioned above must be spot on.
I think its great Noble exists and there are clearly people who buy into what they are doing. I hope they survive. Its just not for me, I'd rather have slightly less performance and a more rounded product. Its why I have never been a fan of TVRs and whilst I enjoy their existance, I'd rather be in something else...
Chris-R said:
R500POP said:
How the hell does that excuse the mirror falling off. "yes it's a supercar sir, but if you drive it quicly it will fall apart".
I doubt if it just 'fell off'... (Although I'm ready to stand corrected!)
I can imagine a Noble M600 would be a right handful round there.
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
AdamPT said:
I think if you are going to enter the supersports market, a plastic/fibreglass car isn't going to cut it, in my opinion.
Its body is all CF actually.
Actually Adam, what I think Adrian was alluding to was, have you actually seen the car in the flesh, so to speak? It'd be interesting to know if you're judging its looks, integrity of design, quality of engineering, technology, materials, etc from actual experience of the car or purely from pictures.
AdamPT said:
sure, I will try and explain. I think if you are going to enter the supersports market, a plastic/fibreglass car isn't going to cut it, in my opinion. We are talking about spending our own money here and with that in mind, if I could afford it (which i can't) it wouldn't cut it for me. It may offer great performance for the money but buyinbg in this market is much more than just performance. It is about looks, integrity of design, quality of engineering, technology, materials, pedigree and a whole raft of other important elements.
Look at arguably the only two recent entrants to this market, Pagani and McLaren (excluding F1, which was approaching 20 years ago since their last effort) and compare them to the Noble. Whilst I appreciate those cars are a very different proposition to the Noble, to be a success and enter this market all the elements I mentioned above must be spot on.
I think its great Noble exists and there are clearly people who buy into what they are doing. I hope they survive. Its just not for me, I'd rather have slightly less performance and a more rounded product. Its why I have never been a fan of TVRs and whilst I enjoy their existance, I'd rather be in something else...
So you havn't actually seen the car, let alone look at it in any detail.Look at arguably the only two recent entrants to this market, Pagani and McLaren (excluding F1, which was approaching 20 years ago since their last effort) and compare them to the Noble. Whilst I appreciate those cars are a very different proposition to the Noble, to be a success and enter this market all the elements I mentioned above must be spot on.
I think its great Noble exists and there are clearly people who buy into what they are doing. I hope they survive. Its just not for me, I'd rather have slightly less performance and a more rounded product. Its why I have never been a fan of TVRs and whilst I enjoy their existance, I'd rather be in something else...
Adrian W said:
AdamPT said:
sure, I will try and explain. I think if you are going to enter the supersports market, a plastic/fibreglass car isn't going to cut it, in my opinion. We are talking about spending our own money here and with that in mind, if I could afford it (which i can't) it wouldn't cut it for me. It may offer great performance for the money but buyinbg in this market is much more than just performance. It is about looks, integrity of design, quality of engineering, technology, materials, pedigree and a whole raft of other important elements.
Look at arguably the only two recent entrants to this market, Pagani and McLaren (excluding F1, which was approaching 20 years ago since their last effort) and compare them to the Noble. Whilst I appreciate those cars are a very different proposition to the Noble, to be a success and enter this market all the elements I mentioned above must be spot on.
I think its great Noble exists and there are clearly people who buy into what they are doing. I hope they survive. Its just not for me, I'd rather have slightly less performance and a more rounded product. Its why I have never been a fan of TVRs and whilst I enjoy their existance, I'd rather be in something else...
So you havn't actually seen the car, let alone look at it in any detail.Look at arguably the only two recent entrants to this market, Pagani and McLaren (excluding F1, which was approaching 20 years ago since their last effort) and compare them to the Noble. Whilst I appreciate those cars are a very different proposition to the Noble, to be a success and enter this market all the elements I mentioned above must be spot on.
I think its great Noble exists and there are clearly people who buy into what they are doing. I hope they survive. Its just not for me, I'd rather have slightly less performance and a more rounded product. Its why I have never been a fan of TVRs and whilst I enjoy their existance, I'd rather be in something else...
AdamPT said:
Gents I stand corrected re the materials, I apologise. No Adrian, I haven't seen the car. But for 220k, it would make no difference if I was staring at it with a magnifying glass. It simply is not for me. It looks dull (for 220k) and doesn't have the sort of cache i would be after for that sort of money. Don't get offended please, its just my opinion. Not based on anything other than pictures I've seen and reports I've read (although it didn't grab my attention clearly as I don't recall the materials and simply assumed it was plastic). Like I said, I applaud the effort and its clearly got some admirers here and in the motoring press, which I'm happy about. People seem to have jumped on my assertion that i think it looks like a kit car and taken great offense. If that is the case, then I apologise for upsetting your sensibilities about a car.
It's not you Adam, Lots of people are making the same assumptions, yet the build quality is up their with a CCX or a Zonda or any other high end low volume supercar. People need to take a closer look.Of course looks is obviously personel taste.Well since Daisy commented I might as well ....the M600 is £225K for that you do not get much in the way of gizzmos or electronic aids etc so lets look at other options. A new standard spec Maclaren MP4-12c plus a new Range Rover Sport and a new Smart car adds up to just about the same price as the new M600 if you pay full list for the Range Rover and Smart car, now that to me seems a no brainer! Daisy will be along to tell you how poor the Maclaren is as per norm unless she can hold herself back!
barefoot said:
Well since Daisy commented I might as well ....the M600 is £225K for that you do not get much in the way of gizzmos or electronic aids etc so lets look at other options. A new standard spec Maclaren MP4-12c plus a new Range Rover Sport and a new Smart car adds up to just about the same price as the new M600 if you pay full list for the Range Rover and Smart car, now that to me seems a no brainer! Daisy will be along to tell you how poor the Maclaren is as per norm unless she can hold herself back!
Put like that it looks like an overpriced machine. They may well sell though.....time will tell. I'd hazard a guess that if you buy an M600 you:
- have other cars
- don't car about depreciation or running costs
- are loaded
- will have fun with it.
Ok back online anyone know where the extra 11% or so added to the list price came from? It is shown as £200k in Autocar and all the other mags had it down as that. And in 2008 from an interview with the MD Peter Boutwood I quote " PH: How many cars do you hope to build?
PB: It is our intention to limit production to circa 50 per annum" so the business was originally set up to make a profit by producing 50 cars per annum now it is 12 does that not concern any future buyers as I cannot work out the figures? Is it a case that they still make a profit with just 12 cars a year taking into account the investment the development costs and more importantly the unknown warranty costs that will start?
PB: It is our intention to limit production to circa 50 per annum" so the business was originally set up to make a profit by producing 50 cars per annum now it is 12 does that not concern any future buyers as I cannot work out the figures? Is it a case that they still make a profit with just 12 cars a year taking into account the investment the development costs and more importantly the unknown warranty costs that will start?
Edited by barefoot on Monday 18th July 18:47
vintageracer01 said:
Are these cars also available with a nice design?
It might be brilliant in technological terms but why they so very often save on the design side. It looks to me like a 20 year old kitcar. What a shame...
Agree. The front is kitcar-esque, for sure. The rest? Pretty nice, but I'd want a lot more at this price.It might be brilliant in technological terms but why they so very often save on the design side. It looks to me like a 20 year old kitcar. What a shame...
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