What car? Thread. Alfa 156 JTD, Saab 9-3 TiD or MG ZT CDTi
Discussion
mig25_foxbat2003 said:
Loving the "MG engines are crap innit" comments! I know you've already picked, but some really good info here (the whole site is epic, you can spend hours on it) if you're interested.
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/07/13/tested-...
Thanks for that, not seen that artcile before (Used ARO a fair but in the past as I've woned a few BL motors). That was a good lunchtime read.http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/07/13/tested-...
Nick
Just P/X'd my 156 JTD. I had the 1.9 16v, put 50k on it to take it up to 130k. No problems with the engine. The 1.9JTD is essentially the same unit as the Saab. in my optinion the alfa interior is by far the nicest place to be especially if you find one with a good leather colour combo. The 2.4 is also a well proven unit. some say compared to the 1.9 it makes the car a bit nose heavy. The only downside I found to the 156 was the upper wishbones needed changing every 3-4years. Not expensive just a pain.
When looking 4 years ago I considered a MG, but I found the diesel a bit sluggish and a bit of trim fell off on the test drive putting the missus right off. It also seemed a bit of a lottery if you found a genuine 130bhp version or not.
If you look at later saabs be aware of the dpf issues. never fitted to 156's, also the 9-3 was know to have coil spring failures.
When looking 4 years ago I considered a MG, but I found the diesel a bit sluggish and a bit of trim fell off on the test drive putting the missus right off. It also seemed a bit of a lottery if you found a genuine 130bhp version or not.
If you look at later saabs be aware of the dpf issues. never fitted to 156's, also the 9-3 was know to have coil spring failures.
fatboy b said:
MG CHRIS said:
fatboy b said:
Alfa, Saab, MG!?!?!?
Oh dear.
All s
t cars IMO.
Have you actually driven them i think not. Oh you drive a audi what a surprise.Oh dear.
All s
t cars IMO. Out of them ive only driven the zt but its a lovely car to drive the diesel engine is very good and a lot of the car has bmw parts its the best of the z range of car. Also due to everyone thinking they are s
t they are very cheap to buy to.I look for a lot more in a car than how it drives. A good interior is important to me as are engines. All those three cars have cheap-shiit interiors. Alfa engines are not what they used to be. MG engines are just junk IMO. Saab are just boring.
fatboy b said:
I occasionally get judder from my clutch, but it's not a big issue. The biggest issue I have is some of the cheap materials inside that rattle and creak. I've had a new armrest under warranty after the old one creaked, and numerous attempts to fix dashboard rattle have failed.
Roman said:
fatboy b said:
MG CHRIS said:
fatboy b said:
Alfa, Saab, MG!?!?!?
Oh dear.
All st cars IMO.
Have you actually driven them i think not. Oh you drive a audi what a surprise.Oh dear.
All s
t cars IMO. Out of them ive only driven the zt but its a lovely car to drive the diesel engine is very good and a lot of the car has bmw parts its the best of the z range of car. Also due to everyone thinking they are s
t they are very cheap to buy to.I look for a lot more in a car than how it drives. A good interior is important to me as are engines. All those three cars have cheap-shiit interiors. Alfa engines are not what they used to be. MG engines are just junk IMO. Saab are just boring.
fatboy b said:
I occasionally get judder from my clutch, but it's not a big issue. The biggest issue I have is some of the cheap materials inside that rattle and creak. I've had a new armrest under warranty after the old one creaked, and numerous attempts to fix dashboard rattle have failed.
t interiors" are....... Mines Vector Sport spec, and leather clad, heated seats, plenty of toys. Admitedly the colour of the dash is a bit "grey" but quality wise, even at 6year old and 85k miles done, it's spot on.As for the MGs, lovely cars. Mates inherited his fathers V6er. Properly nice bit of kit.
From my days in the MG circle, IIRC the TD engine was noisy compared to newer stuff.... BUT quite tuneable, and strong as an ox. Go forever.
The Alfa JTD, is that not some GM relation to the SAAB/Vauxhall/Fiat/Alfa partnership?
fatboy b said:
Why the surprise at me driving an Audi?
I look for a lot more in a car than how it drives. A good interior is important to me as are engines. All those three cars have cheap-shiit interiors. Alfa engines are not what they used to be. MG engines are just junk IMO. Saab are just boring.
With that sort of cash I'd be looking at a BMW e46 probably.
Besides your faux pas with the MG ZT engine (it being a BMW lump), it doesn't sound like your blandwagon has a particularly high quality interior to me?I look for a lot more in a car than how it drives. A good interior is important to me as are engines. All those three cars have cheap-shiit interiors. Alfa engines are not what they used to be. MG engines are just junk IMO. Saab are just boring.
With that sort of cash I'd be looking at a BMW e46 probably.
fatboy b said:
I occasionally get judder from my clutch, but it's not a big issue. The biggest issue I have is some of the cheap materials inside that rattle and creak. I've had a new armrest under warranty after the old one creaked, and numerous attempts to fix dashboard rattle have failed.
NotDave said:
The Alfa JTD, is that not some GM relation to the SAAB/Vauxhall/Fiat/Alfa partnership?
The 1.9 is built by FIAT powertrains technology and built under license by GM for SAAB,Vauh/Opel and Cadillac. Its a uni-jet rather than multi-jet though IIRC. The common rail technology was first used on the 2.4 which was only seen in the UK in the 156 and Croma but available on the continent in the 166. No other manufacturer outside the FIAT group used that engine however the technology that was in that engine was made available by FPT for other manufacturers. The latest M-Jet 2 isnt being licensed for use by anyone else outside the group along with Multi-air.
NotDave said:
Right. So..... In english, they're a common engine? with a few alterations?
Yep. I had the Astra 1.9CDTi 150 - the same as in the Alfa and Saab, except much cheaper. Not a bad unit but prone to swirl flap failure - ours died at 38k miles. Handle with care. The wife's aunt and uncle are also having massive issues with their Saab version - a 9-3 TiD.Vladimir said:
Yep. I had the Astra 1.9CDTi 150 - the same as in the Alfa and Saab, except much cheaper. Not a bad unit but prone to swirl flap failure - ours died at 38k miles. Handle with care. The wife's aunt and uncle are also having massive issues with their Saab version - a 9-3 TiD.
Now I've heard these "mythical internet tales"...... But also have 3x mates with the vaux 1.9cdti lumps, I've got the SAAB 9-3 with same lump, and another mate works for a Fiat garage so sees lots of JTD stuff.No horros yet.
Only issues seem to be EGR valve...... And DMF failure. (mines getting a bit shaky at 85k, should see 100k as motorway use).
Ironically, I bought the SAAB 9-3 2years ago, as compared to a vectra/mundano of the same age and mileage, it was cheaper, and far, far better spec'd.
At the time I gave £6800 for it, with 50k on clock, one owner.
Same money in Astra/Vectra/Mundano world, would've seen me having 80k miles, no leather, AC not split zone climate, no sports spec, no Cruise, no heated seats, no parking sensors. And dear insurance.
SAAB was a no brainer.
In 2years, only "break down" was an alternator packing up last year. £180 to have new one fitted locally.
Vladimir said:
Yep. I had the Astra 1.9CDTi 150 - the same as in the Alfa and Saab, except much cheaper. Not a bad unit but prone to swirl flap failure - ours died at 38k miles. Handle with care. The wife's aunt and uncle are also having massive issues with their Saab version - a 9-3 TiD.
Its too simplistic to say it is the same engine, because it isnt. Lots of the ancillaries are completely different as well as the head and piston designs. They are common but not the same. 
I would say that what you choose depends on how you want to use the car. The MG is very comfy and great for long journeys. Handling is Ok, but not like the Alfa's. They are well screwed together and nice to sit in though. The cruise IS a bit basic (as someone mentioned!) but does manage to hold the car at a given speed most of the time.
The Alfa on the other hand, is lovely inside - although both cars have wonderful leather seats. Much better than the BMWs I have had for some reason - why is that? My MG seats looked brand new after 8 years of use, and the Alfa's do too.
The Alfa handles brilliantly for a FWD car. Keep an eye on the oil (I checked mine even week) and make sure you change cam belt, aux belts and water pump regularly (every 36k I think it is).
The Alfa looks stunning, the boot is fairly small and fiddly compared to a BMW or Merc so it depends what you need it for. The Alfa will always make you feel more special than the MG.
So in summary - if it's about being practical and comfy get the MG, if you want to enjoy driving it and looking at it - buy the Alfa!
The Alfa on the other hand, is lovely inside - although both cars have wonderful leather seats. Much better than the BMWs I have had for some reason - why is that? My MG seats looked brand new after 8 years of use, and the Alfa's do too.
The Alfa handles brilliantly for a FWD car. Keep an eye on the oil (I checked mine even week) and make sure you change cam belt, aux belts and water pump regularly (every 36k I think it is).
The Alfa looks stunning, the boot is fairly small and fiddly compared to a BMW or Merc so it depends what you need it for. The Alfa will always make you feel more special than the MG.
So in summary - if it's about being practical and comfy get the MG, if you want to enjoy driving it and looking at it - buy the Alfa!
robsa said:
I would say that what you choose depends on how you want to use the car. The MG is very comfy and great for long journeys. Handling is Ok, but not like the Alfa's. They are well screwed together and nice to sit in though. The cruise IS a bit basic (as someone mentioned!) but does manage to hold the car at a given speed most of the time.
The Alfa on the other hand, is lovely inside - although both cars have wonderful leather seats. Much better than the BMWs I have had for some reason - why is that? My MG seats looked brand new after 8 years of use, and the Alfa's do too.
The Alfa handles brilliantly for a FWD car. Keep an eye on the oil (I checked mine even week) and make sure you change cam belt, aux belts and water pump regularly (every 36k I think it is).
The Alfa looks stunning, the boot is fairly small and fiddly compared to a BMW or Merc so it depends what you need it for. The Alfa will always make you feel more special than the MG.
So in summary - if it's about being practical and comfy get the MG, if you want to enjoy driving it and looking at it - buy the Alfa!
See I don't agree with some of that. MG ZT / ZS / ZR Seats are prone to driver side bolster wear. Mine has, and a vast number I've looked at.The Alfa on the other hand, is lovely inside - although both cars have wonderful leather seats. Much better than the BMWs I have had for some reason - why is that? My MG seats looked brand new after 8 years of use, and the Alfa's do too.
The Alfa handles brilliantly for a FWD car. Keep an eye on the oil (I checked mine even week) and make sure you change cam belt, aux belts and water pump regularly (every 36k I think it is).
The Alfa looks stunning, the boot is fairly small and fiddly compared to a BMW or Merc so it depends what you need it for. The Alfa will always make you feel more special than the MG.
So in summary - if it's about being practical and comfy get the MG, if you want to enjoy driving it and looking at it - buy the Alfa!
I test drove some Alfa's even with the Veloce spec, and the ZT handles better IMO, if a little harsh on the very bumpy stuff.
Loved the Alfa's Momo seats and the Sporthatch (in Veloce spec) looks stunning but I was less wowed than expected with the general interor. (03 Revised dash) Still think 2.4 JTD has lots of character for an oil-burner
NotDave said:
Now I've heard these "mythical internet tales"...... But also have 3x mates with the vaux 1.9cdti lumps, I've got the SAAB 9-3 with same lump, and another mate works for a Fiat garage so sees lots of JTD stuff.
No horros yet.
Only issues seem to be EGR valve...... And DMF failure. (mines getting a bit shaky at 85k, should see 100k as motorway use).
Ironically, I bought the SAAB 9-3 2years ago, as compared to a vectra/mundano of the same age and mileage, it was cheaper, and far, far better spec'd.
At the time I gave £6800 for it, with 50k on clock, one owner.
Same money in Astra/Vectra/Mundano world, would've seen me having 80k miles, no leather, AC not split zone climate, no sports spec, no Cruise, no heated seats, no parking sensors. And dear insurance.
SAAB was a no brainer.
In 2years, only "break down" was an alternator packing up last year. £180 to have new one fitted locally.
I do realise that forums tend to "distill" problems but it happened to us - went into limp home mode, got to the garage (slowly), probably cost £2k+ to fix - luckily ours was under warranty.No horros yet.
Only issues seem to be EGR valve...... And DMF failure. (mines getting a bit shaky at 85k, should see 100k as motorway use).
Ironically, I bought the SAAB 9-3 2years ago, as compared to a vectra/mundano of the same age and mileage, it was cheaper, and far, far better spec'd.
At the time I gave £6800 for it, with 50k on clock, one owner.
Same money in Astra/Vectra/Mundano world, would've seen me having 80k miles, no leather, AC not split zone climate, no sports spec, no Cruise, no heated seats, no parking sensors. And dear insurance.
SAAB was a no brainer.
In 2years, only "break down" was an alternator packing up last year. £180 to have new one fitted locally.
I've looked at (closely) and driven the Saab 9-3 TiD (two examples) as well as owned the Astra for four years and to all intents and purposes, they are the same. Saab has slightly less torque for some reason but that's about it.
They go fairly well but have the dreaded "tiny power band" - it's smoother and more refined than the VW 150PD unit of a slightly earlier era but there's still only really 1.5k rpm of real oomph. MPG is okay but nothing special and as with all 4 pot diesels, they do sound terrible. But for a bit of poke that's cheap to tax and insure, they are a useful engine to be propelled by.
Vladimir said:
I do realise that forums tend to "distill" problems but it happened to us - went into limp home mode, got to the garage (slowly), probably cost £2k+ to fix - luckily ours was under warranty.
I've looked at (closely) and driven the Saab 9-3 TiD (two examples) as well as owned the Astra for four years and to all intents and purposes, they are the same. Saab has slightly less torque for some reason but that's about it.
They go fairly well but have the dreaded "tiny power band" - it's smoother and more refined than the VW 150PD unit of a slightly earlier era but there's still only really 1.5k rpm of real oomph. MPG is okay but nothing special and as with all 4 pot diesels, they do sound terrible. But for a bit of poke that's cheap to tax and insure, they are a useful engine to be propelled by.
Fair enough.I've looked at (closely) and driven the Saab 9-3 TiD (two examples) as well as owned the Astra for four years and to all intents and purposes, they are the same. Saab has slightly less torque for some reason but that's about it.
They go fairly well but have the dreaded "tiny power band" - it's smoother and more refined than the VW 150PD unit of a slightly earlier era but there's still only really 1.5k rpm of real oomph. MPG is okay but nothing special and as with all 4 pot diesels, they do sound terrible. But for a bit of poke that's cheap to tax and insure, they are a useful engine to be propelled by.
TBH the SAAB ticks a great deal of boxes for me. Don't get me wrong, around town it's clattery and heavy. But as a motorway muncher doing 25k per annum... It's brilliant.
OH loves it too, so keeps her safe and she's getting 45-47mpg as an average.
I'd happily replace it for the next gen model, probably the 180ps Vector Sport, if this one were to die in 2years time
At 6ft7, they're the BEST seats I've ever sat in, even better than Volvo.
MGs are good but "sporty" rather than Cornwall to North Lincs without backache.
Alfas IME ain't great.
BMW are w
k, properly wk.NotDave said:
Fair enough.
TBH the SAAB ticks a great deal of boxes for me. Don't get me wrong, around town it's clattery and heavy. But as a motorway muncher doing 25k per annum... It's brilliant.
OH loves it too, so keeps her safe and she's getting 45-47mpg as an average.
I'd happily replace it for the next gen model, probably the 180ps Vector Sport, if this one were to die in 2years time
At 6ft7, they're the BEST seats I've ever sat in, even better than Volvo.
MGs are good but "sporty" rather than Cornwall to North Lincs without backache.
Alfas IME ain't great.
BMW are wk, properly wk.
Do you mean the seats or the whole car? I find the BM sport seats a bit average but have the non Sport sofas. Not had backache once in over two years ownership (including a near non stop 406 miles to N Wales) but then I'm a borderline dwarven 5'8"TBH the SAAB ticks a great deal of boxes for me. Don't get me wrong, around town it's clattery and heavy. But as a motorway muncher doing 25k per annum... It's brilliant.
OH loves it too, so keeps her safe and she's getting 45-47mpg as an average.
I'd happily replace it for the next gen model, probably the 180ps Vector Sport, if this one were to die in 2years time
At 6ft7, they're the BEST seats I've ever sat in, even better than Volvo.
MGs are good but "sporty" rather than Cornwall to North Lincs without backache.
Alfas IME ain't great.
BMW are w
k, properly wk.Vladimir said:
Do you mean the seats or the whole car? I find the BM sport seats a bit average but have the non Sport sofas. Not had backache once in over two years ownership (including a near non stop 406 miles to N Wales) but then I'm a borderline dwarven 5'8"
Seats.E36/E46 was OK on leg room for me. Driven a few. But the seats are s
te, properly crap.The SAAB, legroom is good, seats are epic. And even the back seats are nice.
More legroom than a Vectra of same age too
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