Why I didn't buy a Lotus
Discussion
Quite surprised that Top Gear hasn't tried this. They'd probably stick a K-series in a Beetle.The Pits said:
Risotto said:
I think Lotus came to rely on the odd mindset of people who bought Elises - loyal customers who are, by and large, happy to finish the design & build process themselves.
I imagine they must have had a rude awakening if they thought the same strategy would work with the Evora. Few people spending that kind of money are prepared to play that game.
Not surprisingly I see it differently. The Evora is lotus trying to break into a market for whom status is all important. Which is of course an immediate own goal. Lotus is a drivers brand not a status brand. Shoddy 'Kit cars' to those that don't understand. The purest, most focused drivers cars for those that do. Evora sales prove how little driving dynamics counts for in the end.I imagine they must have had a rude awakening if they thought the same strategy would work with the Evora. Few people spending that kind of money are prepared to play that game.
Edited by Risotto on Thursday 9th February 15:04
Risotto said:
I think the racing history adds a good deal of cachet to the Lotus name. It's not that there's no appeal to the badge, or that there's no market for a philosopy based on simplicity; it's that they simply cannot put cars together properly. They're much improved, but still far from acceptable to a mainstream audience.
But what proportion of people who've bought 911s in the UK since the Evora was released, have ever seen an Evora? Or even heard of it? Lotus certainly do need to improve their quality - both perceived and real, but I don't think that in itself will be enough.
The Pits said:
Not surprisingly I see it differently. The Evora is lotus trying to break into a market for whom status is all important. Which is of course an immediate own goal. Lotus is a drivers brand not a status brand. Shoddy 'Kit cars' to those that don't understand. The purest, most focused drivers cars for those that do. Evora sales prove how little driving dynamics counts for in the end.
I think you are being a bit disingenuous and condescending when you suggest that the reason people aren't buying the Evora is because they are only concerned about "status".There are I'm sure a number of other factors that contribute to the poor of sales including a lack of perceived/actual quality to the materials/build of the car, a lack of practicality, a lack of dealers etc.
I'm really not knocking the Evora, I think it's a lovely car and would relish the opportunity to drive one but as an overall package for 99% of buyers in that price sector it falls short.
My concern is what is going to happen if they try and pitch the new Esprit against Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini et al in the £150k range.
The Pits said:
Well if that's the case then the much improved MY12 Evora should fly off the shelves then.
We all know it won't though, don't we?
You have to be individualistic in the extreme to even consider an Evora.
Or someone who doesn't like porsches and I appear to be the only one left.
I'm almost afraid to ask, but where does this apparent hatred of all things Porsche come from?We all know it won't though, don't we?
You have to be individualistic in the extreme to even consider an Evora.
Or someone who doesn't like porsches and I appear to be the only one left.
matthias73 said:
Plus, you seem to be taking quite a personal take on this. But I'l counter. TVR are famous for being dangerous and not put together all to well, although on the flipside they are apparently a lot of fun.
The biggest shame about TVR is that they never really got round to finding a way of building them well. I suppose for some this is part of their charm. They are amazing designers though, if they could have found a way of getting the cars manufactured to a reasonable standard they'd have been onto a winner because they are generally stunning cars when they're working right.walm said:
I bought an S2 111s because I had already had a Boxster S.
Lotus and Porsche certainly do things differently!
I am not sure but I am fairly convinced that the doors are about to fall off my Lotus.
Certainly the roof creaks more than my arthritic knee.
Also, I can't really get in it. Or out.
No A/C, no ABS, no airbag, no stereo (there is but I can't hear it) nor power steering.
Down-shifting into 2nd gear is like finding the holy grail.
There are indeed several neutrals, none of them anywhere near 3rd or 4th.
Oh and hard braking requires Lance Armstrong's thighs.
I fricking love it!
Lotus and Porsche certainly do things differently!
I am not sure but I am fairly convinced that the doors are about to fall off my Lotus.
Certainly the roof creaks more than my arthritic knee.
Also, I can't really get in it. Or out.
No A/C, no ABS, no airbag, no stereo (there is but I can't hear it) nor power steering.
Down-shifting into 2nd gear is like finding the holy grail.
There are indeed several neutrals, none of them anywhere near 3rd or 4th.
Oh and hard braking requires Lance Armstrong's thighs.
I fricking love it!
To the OP, it seems a shame you didn't perhaps try a later Evora and/or one with a close ratio gearbox.
Also, with the 991 having just launched, I wouldn't be surprised to see you taking just as much of a depreciation hit with a year-old 911 as you would have with an Evora....
In any case, enjoy your purchase.
Also, with the 991 having just launched, I wouldn't be surprised to see you taking just as much of a depreciation hit with a year-old 911 as you would have with an Evora....
In any case, enjoy your purchase.
kambites said:
Lotus do some things better than Porsche and vice versa. Both make good cars in their own ways and both certainly have a place on the road. I'd love to see a joint venture - let Lotus do the chassis design and setup and the major controls and Porsche do, well, everything else really.
So the fact that they have ex-porsche people such as Michael Och in charge of the build process at Lotus counts for what exactly?
I'm beginning to think if that new 991 had lotus badges on it, no-one would touch it with a barge pole.
All I'll say is that Michael Och has a much higher regard for the way Lotus make cars than most people here.
I'm beginning to think if that new 991 had lotus badges on it, no-one would touch it with a barge pole.
All I'll say is that Michael Och has a much higher regard for the way Lotus make cars than most people here.
You can only speak as you find and I thought your article was very fair. Fair play for criticising the ride on the Cayman R, as most mags cant seem to see beyond the beautiful track day handling... As someone who loves Loti and Porsches above all other sporting cars I agree entirely with your conclusions. The Evora, quite simply, is being pitched in a market that it cannot succeed in. It is way too dear!!! If they knocked it out for 40 grand, it would do well, but at 50 grand plus, they're surely kidding.!!! Come on Lotus people, take off those blinkers and accept that this car is too dear and is bound to fail against 911s and the like,
I am really sad about Lotus right now, as I think the management are totally suicidal on a mission to compete with Ferrari and Porsche. They need to get back to what they do best. A completely re-engineered lightweigh Elise would surely fly off the shelves?
I am really sad about Lotus right now, as I think the management are totally suicidal on a mission to compete with Ferrari and Porsche. They need to get back to what they do best. A completely re-engineered lightweigh Elise would surely fly off the shelves?
egomeister said:
Why? Quality is engineered in up front, not built in on the line.
It's true that dashboard plastics are specified up front, but that's the kind of quality that Porsche can keep. I was thinking more of things like all of the cars coming out of the factory with the same suspension geometry, and ensuring that paint and cutting processes don't leave moisture in GRP.kambites said:
Lotus do some things better than Porsche and vice versa. Both make good cars in their own ways and both certainly have a place on the road.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff