Discussion
Girlfriends 2000 Corsa has rust sprouting all over the wheel arches. Bits just seem to fall off weekly due to the cancerous rot. Also bought a £40 MOT failure 1998 Ford Ka once upon a time and that was riddled with the stuff. I agree though, nowadays I rarely see it.
Well that's a lie I daily drive an E30.
Well that's a lie I daily drive an E30.
Old peugeots seem to be fairly rust proof, I've got a nearly 12 year old 106, only rust on it is surface rust on the rear subframe (I have seen boot floors go on them though on 106 owners / rally register / saxp - which makes me keep a close eye on it, keep it clean, make sure there is no caked on mud / salt etc)
My brother has a 2005 Citroen C15 van (based on the vista) and its rusting everywhere though.
My brother has a 2005 Citroen C15 van (based on the vista) and its rusting everywhere though.
On the OP point of a 3 series left out in the open and left to the elements.
Youtube brought up a tv programme called life after people, they reconned that after a century a modern car would be a pile of very rusted parts and almost unrecognisable.
The tyres go flat after a year, the window rubbers dry out meaning the glass will eventually break/fall away and then as the paint fades and flakes away, rust will start at the steel bodyshell and start to rot it away.
They did say though that a car left in the mojavie (sp) desert will deteriorate differently to a car in the north east of Scotland. Which could also be said of the UK, as the north of Scotland can get much colder winters than the south east, and depending on where parked, sea salt spray could be a factor as well.
Link to the programme, the car part is 2/3rds through the clip.
http://youtu.be/oHrlkoVlUFQ
Youtube brought up a tv programme called life after people, they reconned that after a century a modern car would be a pile of very rusted parts and almost unrecognisable.
The tyres go flat after a year, the window rubbers dry out meaning the glass will eventually break/fall away and then as the paint fades and flakes away, rust will start at the steel bodyshell and start to rot it away.
They did say though that a car left in the mojavie (sp) desert will deteriorate differently to a car in the north east of Scotland. Which could also be said of the UK, as the north of Scotland can get much colder winters than the south east, and depending on where parked, sea salt spray could be a factor as well.
Link to the programme, the car part is 2/3rds through the clip.
http://youtu.be/oHrlkoVlUFQ
Steffan said:
El Capitano said:
Well, 944s are galvanised so they generally don't get too bad. But things like Ford pumas etc were a 'fairly'
Modern car that rusted badly around the rear arches.
As did the KA, and the Fiesta. Modern car that rusted badly around the rear arches.
All based on Fiesta floorpan.
Presumably rust proofing is not profitable for Fords
Er, that's pretty much it. There are some very minor spots here and there but nothing structural. It could be the top end models were better made or it could have been the previous owners cared more than I do!
blearyeyedboy said:
A9XXC said:
Wouldn't let my daughers get a Ka they rust badly (like a lot of others) but especially in the structural area of the sills.
Two close friends of mine have scrapped post-2000 Kas because of rusty sills that would be uneconomical to repair. Shameful.It's quite a shame that you discounted them because they are really quite fantastic little cars. They are safe and have OHV engines so no need to fork out for a cambelt change every 5-7 years like you would with some competitors cars - at the cheaper end of motoring many cars want a cambelt doing, more on this in a bit.
True the sills can rot but these can be welded and our old Ka which I still see is still on it's original sills (that is a 1997 model). The outer skin on a sill, although an mot failure point, makes part of the strength of the sill section which in it's entirety is more involved than just the outer skin on most cars. Both sills can be replaced and sprayed for about the same amount of money as a proper cambelt change on an inferior vehicle.
Noesph said:
Old peugeots seem to be fairly rust proof, I've got a nearly 12 year old 106, only rust on it is surface rust on the rear subframe (I have seen boot floors go on them though on 106 owners / rally register / saxp - which makes me keep a close eye on it, keep it clean, make sure there is no caked on mud / salt etc)
I've had to do the rear inner arches on my 1994 106 a couple of years ago and the boot floor is on it's way, but on the whole it's pretty good for a car that has had a very hard life!My 1997 306, that has also been utterly neglected, shows no signs of rust anywhere.
RV8 said:
I agree that they do rust but it's not a massive issue of you look for a solid one.
It's quite a shame that you discounted them because they are really quite fantastic little cars. They are safe and have OHV engines so no need to fork out for a cambelt change every 5-7 years like you would with some competitors cars - at the cheaper end of motoring many cars want a cambelt doing, more on this in a bit.
True the sills can rot but these can be welded and our old Ka which I still see is still on it's original sills (that is a 1997 model). The outer skin on a sill, although an mot failure point, makes part of the strength of the sill section which in it's entirety is more involved than just the outer skin on most cars. Both sills can be replaced and sprayed for about the same amount of money as a proper cambelt change on an inferior vehicle.
True... but a lot of effort to go to when the car's not worth much itself.It's quite a shame that you discounted them because they are really quite fantastic little cars. They are safe and have OHV engines so no need to fork out for a cambelt change every 5-7 years like you would with some competitors cars - at the cheaper end of motoring many cars want a cambelt doing, more on this in a bit.
True the sills can rot but these can be welded and our old Ka which I still see is still on it's original sills (that is a 1997 model). The outer skin on a sill, although an mot failure point, makes part of the strength of the sill section which in it's entirety is more involved than just the outer skin on most cars. Both sills can be replaced and sprayed for about the same amount of money as a proper cambelt change on an inferior vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, Ka's are good little beasts. But that particular design element is way behind its contemporaries.
Steffan said:
Ford KA ( old style) are real rust buckets.
My wife and three children all had KA's for years.
Every one was rotting (not surface rust) by the end of four years.
Just scrapped the last one 60,000 miles 2001 rotten as a pear underneath.
All suffered around the rear door locks, in the sills, on the rear floor, wheel arches, really very poor.
My wife and three children all had KA's for years.
Every one was rotting (not surface rust) by the end of four years.
Just scrapped the last one 60,000 miles 2001 rotten as a pear underneath.
All suffered around the rear door locks, in the sills, on the rear floor, wheel arches, really very poor.
Around the fuel cap and boot lid too.
My E30 is suffering somewhat especially as in the last few years it has been a daily diver suffering the snow/gritted roads. Left rear arch and bottom of the front wings. I would hate to imagine what I'd find if the sills were stripped back.
blearyeyedboy said:
RV8 said:
I agree that they do rust but it's not a massive issue of you look for a solid one.
It's quite a shame that you discounted them because they are really quite fantastic little cars. They are safe and have OHV engines so no need to fork out for a cambelt change every 5-7 years like you would with some competitors cars - at the cheaper end of motoring many cars want a cambelt doing, more on this in a bit.
True the sills can rot but these can be welded and our old Ka which I still see is still on it's original sills (that is a 1997 model). The outer skin on a sill, although an mot failure point, makes part of the strength of the sill section which in it's entirety is more involved than just the outer skin on most cars. Both sills can be replaced and sprayed for about the same amount of money as a proper cambelt change on an inferior vehicle.
True... but a lot of effort to go to when the car's not worth much itself.It's quite a shame that you discounted them because they are really quite fantastic little cars. They are safe and have OHV engines so no need to fork out for a cambelt change every 5-7 years like you would with some competitors cars - at the cheaper end of motoring many cars want a cambelt doing, more on this in a bit.
True the sills can rot but these can be welded and our old Ka which I still see is still on it's original sills (that is a 1997 model). The outer skin on a sill, although an mot failure point, makes part of the strength of the sill section which in it's entirety is more involved than just the outer skin on most cars. Both sills can be replaced and sprayed for about the same amount of money as a proper cambelt change on an inferior vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, Ka's are good little beasts. But that particular design element is way behind its contemporaries.
With regards to effort I suppose you could say the same about a cambelt change, which is why I brought that up, I spent £350 having it done on my last car as I didn't have the correct tools or room to work and it was already 10k miles overdue, I suppose that was just over a quarter of it's value. It was still worth doing to keep it running, but I've had new sills welded onto bigger cars in the past for less than that!
J4CKO said:
Has it gone the way of white Dog Poo ?
Was just pondering how it used to be a big issue but now it scarcely happens, my old 944 has a couple of little scabs so I will have to attend to them (not on the sills before the doom mongers start) but you just don't see rusty cars anymore.
Not getting nostalgic as it was a depressing thing, you washed your P and J and saw the scabs that were forming for it.Was wondering when you last dealt with any ? my last car was an nine year old Saab and it had no hint of rust anywhere on the body, some on the suspension compnents but basically none.
Whenever I look in a Classic car magazine they have pictures of abandoned classics, usually that some brave fool will attempt to restore but also cars from the sixties, seventies and eighties that are so far gone they are collapsing in on themselves (Late nineties Mercs as well), I wonder what would happen if you say took a brand new quality car, Three series BMW for example and left it outside and never used it, how long would it last before that happened ? would it happen, assume it is immune to vandalism and just left in the open on concrete in a UK climate, what would it look like after 100 years, could it be re-commissioned ?
Urm so you saying old cars are rusty and on the whole newish ones aren't??? Well done Was just pondering how it used to be a big issue but now it scarcely happens, my old 944 has a couple of little scabs so I will have to attend to them (not on the sills before the doom mongers start) but you just don't see rusty cars anymore.
Not getting nostalgic as it was a depressing thing, you washed your P and J and saw the scabs that were forming for it.Was wondering when you last dealt with any ? my last car was an nine year old Saab and it had no hint of rust anywhere on the body, some on the suspension compnents but basically none.
Whenever I look in a Classic car magazine they have pictures of abandoned classics, usually that some brave fool will attempt to restore but also cars from the sixties, seventies and eighties that are so far gone they are collapsing in on themselves (Late nineties Mercs as well), I wonder what would happen if you say took a brand new quality car, Three series BMW for example and left it outside and never used it, how long would it last before that happened ? would it happen, assume it is immune to vandalism and just left in the open on concrete in a UK climate, what would it look like after 100 years, could it be re-commissioned ?
You might want to note that you rarely see old cars these days, the scrappage scheme certainly aided this. And well, new cars are generally too new to rust.... but they might when older.
Fords, Nissans, Mercs, BMW's are all highly capable of rusting... as is anything made from mild steel.
300bhp/ton said:
Fords, Nissans, Mercs, BMW's are all highly capable of rusting... as is anything made from mild steel.
Yep, mild steel is a ferrous metal. You can galvanize it but even galv bodies rust (see mercedes)The newer cars will start rusting given time.
Even cars which look to be doing well cosmetically are often deceiving. Front x-members and floorpans on bubble shaped micras, for example.
RV8 said:
If the car is otherwise perfect you could get the sills done and know you've still got a good car - this isn't just about the Ka, but applies to anything needing bodywork or other.
And there's the fallacy in today's climate: "I'll just spend £350 on this and I'll have a good car."If I owned a 2000 Ka, I'd run it til it failed. And if the cost to fix it is bigger than the cost to get another one (i.e., the cost of another one minus the scrap value you can recoup) then I'd ditch it. Unless you're attached to a car, it's simply not worth doing otherwise. If someome has the time and skills to fix it yourself, fair play- but I don't.
If I owned a £500 snotter, I wouldn't spend £300 changing the cambelt.
I saw a Puma yesterday which looked like it had rust riddling the rear arches and sills, chavved up by a girl with racing door stickers.
Overall, moderns are better but my 96 Golf GTI needed some welding on the last MOT somewhere at the front where the suspension arms are supported. i queried whether it was a good excuse to scrap it but was told the car was otherwise pretty solid.
Back in the 60s and 70s, we had many cars made from inferior steel so most dissolved or came with "lace bodywork" but then again, most didn't even have wheelarch liners, let alone any other sort of decent protection and filler comprised most of their structural rigidity.
Overall, moderns are better but my 96 Golf GTI needed some welding on the last MOT somewhere at the front where the suspension arms are supported. i queried whether it was a good excuse to scrap it but was told the car was otherwise pretty solid.
Back in the 60s and 70s, we had many cars made from inferior steel so most dissolved or came with "lace bodywork" but then again, most didn't even have wheelarch liners, let alone any other sort of decent protection and filler comprised most of their structural rigidity.
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