Jag XKR and BMW 840Ci
Discussion
Some good discussion in this thread.
I've tried 2 XKR's and whilst the initial feel and engine 'rawness' are very appealing, I'm struggling to get to grips with the interior styling. That and the fact I know very little about Jaguar means it has a tough job of convincing me.
Having been in E31's a few times (but not driven one for a number of years) they certainly seem more like home given my exposure to BMW ergonomics.
Saturday I shall be visiting E31Shrew to take a look at his 8er (top man!) which will hopefully give me an up-to-date foundation to compare against when I go to see one for sale on Sunday.
I've tried 2 XKR's and whilst the initial feel and engine 'rawness' are very appealing, I'm struggling to get to grips with the interior styling. That and the fact I know very little about Jaguar means it has a tough job of convincing me.
Having been in E31's a few times (but not driven one for a number of years) they certainly seem more like home given my exposure to BMW ergonomics.
Saturday I shall be visiting E31Shrew to take a look at his 8er (top man!) which will hopefully give me an up-to-date foundation to compare against when I go to see one for sale on Sunday.
The XK8 looks like a giant 1996 Toyota Celica with a big fat arse. And they rust like a b
d - seen plenty of these around with rotten sills and rear arches. Think Jaguar and I still think 'British Leyland' and 'Lucas'. They haven't aged at all well. The interior resembles a Japanese effort at 'British prestige'.
I had an 840Ci a good 10+ years ago. Reliability was okay once the problems were sorted - a typical main dealer maintained car where they'd changed the oil but done bugger all preventative maintenance. The brakes aren't that good - great for high speed slowing, but they feel dead.
Neither car will be cheap to run, and expect plenty of annoying niggles. The XK8 doesn't get a second glance but the 8 Series always looks rare and special.
d - seen plenty of these around with rotten sills and rear arches. Think Jaguar and I still think 'British Leyland' and 'Lucas'. They haven't aged at all well. The interior resembles a Japanese effort at 'British prestige'.I had an 840Ci a good 10+ years ago. Reliability was okay once the problems were sorted - a typical main dealer maintained car where they'd changed the oil but done bugger all preventative maintenance. The brakes aren't that good - great for high speed slowing, but they feel dead.
Neither car will be cheap to run, and expect plenty of annoying niggles. The XK8 doesn't get a second glance but the 8 Series always looks rare and special.
Bit over budget, but not many left in this mileage and condition and only 1 owner (I've seen the car and it is immaculate).
http://www.wokinghamcarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/bmw-...
2 Doors, Automatic, Coupe, Petrol, 45,000 miles, Red, 1 Owner. Ferrari red with black leather, sunroof, x spoke alloys, always garaged, 1 private owner from new with fsh. Impeccable car. Sunroof.
http://www.wokinghamcarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/bmw-...
2 Doors, Automatic, Coupe, Petrol, 45,000 miles, Red, 1 Owner. Ferrari red with black leather, sunroof, x spoke alloys, always garaged, 1 private owner from new with fsh. Impeccable car. Sunroof.
jagnet said:
It would have to be the XKR for me. Whilst some say that it looks dated, maybe that's no bad thing - give me elegant curves over brash style lines any day.
To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
Just stunning. There's something amazing (to me) about those curves. To me it's in the same ballpark as as the Ian Calumn DB7 and almost as pretty as the current Astons. To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
pits said:
Marquis Rex said:
Jaguar XKR- get an iron linered engine with the tensioner upgrade and the engine is as bulletproof as an AJ16.
The Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
Better looking? The XKR looks positively dated these days it hasn't aged well at all it actually looks like some America churned out in the 90s The Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
pits said:
A lot more style? Lacks pop up headlights, and see above point, it hasn't aged well at all, it looks like one of those cars that was expensive new but you can pick up for very little these days, where as the 840 looks like they still cost a lot, the Jag also lacks the pillerlessness and the most epic rear window mechanism ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP29mQGFMy8 The rear end of an 8 has more road presence than the whole Jag, it looks like a pannini with too much filling in it.
Pop up headlights? You mean like a TR7 or a Porsche 914? hmm ok, that makes sense 
pits said:
I don't find it underpowered, was enough to just be quicker than my Legnum VR4
If your baseline is underpowered cars, that's not my problem, my baseline is set a little higher- used to Porsche 928 GTS' (which I'd also pick over an 8 series any day of the week despite not having pop ups headlights) and others. What next- you're going to asert that the 840 Ci is faster than an XKR?pits said:
Electrical gremlins, a few perhaps the biggest is the pixels on the dash die but can be fixed,......
.....8 series aren't ruinous to run at all in the grand scheme of things
Few things to check as they are getting on a bit now
Weeping headgaskets and suspension components, personally if it was me I would avoid any self leveling suspension ones, those I admit can be expensive when they go wrong.
.....8 series aren't ruinous to run at all in the grand scheme of things
Few things to check as they are getting on a bit now
Weeping headgaskets and suspension components, personally if it was me I would avoid any self leveling suspension ones, those I admit can be expensive when they go wrong.
dieseasel driver said:
Ours has been fairly expensive of late, 2x cats, ABS module full of water and as a result needed a new one and the TC/ABS didn't work.
Needed a new ECU too........It's only on 55,000 miles!
there's your answer BMW fan boy Needed a new ECU too........It's only on 55,000 miles!
pits said:
...and in true BMW fashion the boot lid can chafe the wiring causing all manners of weird lights, but known on a lot of BMWs.
Never happened on any of the BMWs I've owned 
pits said:
Overweight, doesn't weigh much more than XK.
so 3-400 kgs heavier doesn't amount to much in your book?pits said:
Ugly? As opposed to the Pannini with too much stuffing? Or the badly packed kebab? Your argument is null and void because the 8 has pop up headlights.
Like a TR7 you mean?pits said:
M635ci to 8 series....6 series to 8 series...yes perfect comparison go you, an M car vs a non M car, a sports car vs a grand tourer.
The M635CSi is no sports car, it's a GT car, it rolls alot and is soft riding. I still love em. The comparison with the 8 series is inevitable- in the same way the XJS was compared with the E type when it was released.pits said:
I have countered your sweeping statements with more sweeping statements, even if we didn't have an 8, I would still say the same.
Or...shown you're a drivelous excitable fan boy with about as much credibility as E38_Ross
angusc43 said:
jagnet said:
It would have to be the XKR for me. Whilst some say that it looks dated, maybe that's no bad thing - give me elegant curves over brash style lines any day.
To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
Just stunning. There's something amazing (to me) about those curves. To me it's in the same ballpark as as the Ian Calumn DB7 and almost as pretty as the current Astons. To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
Never been keen on the XK, BMW is a gorgeous thing.
However I think my money would go here......
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2992726.htm
However I think my money would go here......
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2992726.htm
- edited to note I'd remove the fake CL55 badging!
Bloody he'll marquis Rex, you really must love me. You mention me in almost all your posts. Which are lots of drivel a lot of the time! For one, you say 3-400kgs more.... Try nearer 100.
You seem to think an m635csi is the best car in the world
Fwiw, i'd probably take the jag.
Edit - oh, the BMW boot and wire harness chafing is a well known issue on several cars, largely the E34 iirc.
You seem to think an m635csi is the best car in the world
Fwiw, i'd probably take the jag.
Edit - oh, the BMW boot and wire harness chafing is a well known issue on several cars, largely the E34 iirc.
Edited by E38Ross on Thursday 31st May 16:11
Marquis Rex said:
angusc43 said:
jagnet said:
It would have to be the XKR for me. Whilst some say that it looks dated, maybe that's no bad thing - give me elegant curves over brash style lines any day.
To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
Just stunning. There's something amazing (to me) about those curves. To me it's in the same ballpark as as the Ian Calumn DB7 and almost as pretty as the current Astons. To counter the lack of Jag based imagery:
650hp, Quaife LSD and about to get a 6-speed manual gearbox
angusc43 said:
This was what I was gawping at last Friday on the way to work
I have to declare a personal bias, I was involved in the powertrain performance development of the XK8 and XKR when I worked at Whitley.To be surrouded by so many X100 prototypes never got old and it was always a treat rather than a chore to go out in these elegant beasts.
The X308 XJR always FELT faster initially due to the more agressive pedal map though even though it wasn't
Marquis Rex said:
I have to declare a personal bias, I was involved in the powertrain performance development of the XK8 and XKR when I worked at Whitley.
Imho the AJ-V8 doesn't get the recognition that it deserves outside of Jag circles. Lightweight, high specific power and torque, low friction - it was a very innovative engine. The nicasil and tensioner problems of the 4.0 gave detractors all the ammunition they needed despite other manufacturers having similar problems.
In a way it was a shame that there was never a manual version offered by the factory - presumably cost to develop versus likely sales figures and the presence of Aston in the Ford family?
This is more like it some pics of elegance.
Ignoring the style aspect, comparing the xk8 to the 8 series would be more realistic from a performance aspect.
On the style side when looking to replace the Chim with a 2+2 the XK was one of the few (affordable)cars that my other half considered to be aesthetically appealing enough to even be considered.
Ignoring the style aspect, comparing the xk8 to the 8 series would be more realistic from a performance aspect.
On the style side when looking to replace the Chim with a 2+2 the XK was one of the few (affordable)cars that my other half considered to be aesthetically appealing enough to even be considered.
jagnet said:
Marquis Rex said:
I have to declare a personal bias, I was involved in the powertrain performance development of the XK8 and XKR when I worked at Whitley.
Imho the AJ-V8 doesn't get the recognition that it deserves outside of Jag circles. Lightweight, high specific power and torque, low friction - it was a very innovative engine. The nicasil and tensioner problems of the 4.0 gave detractors all the ammunition they needed despite other manufacturers having similar problems.
In a way it was a shame that there was never a manual version offered by the factory - presumably cost to develop versus likely sales figures and the presence of Aston in the Ford family?
You are probably familiar with SVOs XKR-R which used the manual Tremec box. SVO did a cracking job on it and I drove that car. SVO and some of us really wanted a manual version to materialise and the XKR -R was thir attempt to convince the execs. Unfortunately it didn't happen. It was curious really, because the direction the execs pedaled at the time was to pursue a younger buyer- hence launching of the X type and the development of the still born X600 sports car BUt marketing always maintained that the projected sales numbers of an X100 didn't justify the cost of releasing one. ( a manual transmission require quite alot more calibration work to drive smoothly).
I would counter this that the model receives a halo effect if a manual is released that elevates the image of the whole range. Case in point- the porsche 928 which sold many more Autos than Manuals but probably wouldn't have enjoyed the sporty image it did if the manual wasn't offered. And perhaps as you say, the Aston Factor and marque differentiation was a factor also.
I fell in love with the XKR-R when it appeared on Top Gear - a cracking job by SVO, and I still use the term "handles like a greasy weasel" now, as described when handing it to The Stig mid suspension tweak.
I'd never considered that the manual would require more calibration - I'd have assumed it was the other way around. Every day's a school day
The sporting pretensions a manual could have offered were definitely an opportunity missed. I get the impression that there was a degree of confusion amongst the execs about the Jaguar brand - wanting the younger crowd with the X-type but giving it so many of the styling queues of the XJ so doing nothing to eliminate the "old man's car" perception.
At least with the current XK the gearbox technology has improved such that it's not a great issue.
Edit: not that I think the auto box is bad by any means - just that a manual would have been
I'd never considered that the manual would require more calibration - I'd have assumed it was the other way around. Every day's a school day
The sporting pretensions a manual could have offered were definitely an opportunity missed. I get the impression that there was a degree of confusion amongst the execs about the Jaguar brand - wanting the younger crowd with the X-type but giving it so many of the styling queues of the XJ so doing nothing to eliminate the "old man's car" perception.
At least with the current XK the gearbox technology has improved such that it's not a great issue.
Edit: not that I think the auto box is bad by any means - just that a manual would have been
Edited by jagnet on Thursday 31st May 17:06
The "big engine" woes addressed at BMWs only apply to the hideously complex V12s.
The 850CSi is worth all of those woes because it has an engine in it that is very closely related to the engine in the McLaren F1. Other than that, the 840Ci all the way.
However, there's a lot of commentary about how headturning they are, which I do not agree with. To people in the know, they are pretty cool, but most people would confuse them with a Ford Probe. I know, I've conducted straw poles along these lines:
Q:"Hey, wow, what do you think of that car?" A:"Hmm? The Probe? Meh".
I'd still probably go for one though, but the Jag is way more of a looker and more impressive on the road IMO.... unless perhaps you're thinking of lowering the BMW and putting on genuine BBS LMs.
The 850CSi is worth all of those woes because it has an engine in it that is very closely related to the engine in the McLaren F1. Other than that, the 840Ci all the way.
However, there's a lot of commentary about how headturning they are, which I do not agree with. To people in the know, they are pretty cool, but most people would confuse them with a Ford Probe. I know, I've conducted straw poles along these lines:
Q:"Hey, wow, what do you think of that car?" A:"Hmm? The Probe? Meh".
I'd still probably go for one though, but the Jag is way more of a looker and more impressive on the road IMO.... unless perhaps you're thinking of lowering the BMW and putting on genuine BBS LMs.
I was all set to buy an 840ci last year, but after driving a couple they just weren't fast enough. Saying that - I still have first dibs on a local Dakar Yellow model with the 17 inch cross spokes should the owner ever sell - it looks amazing.
They are more of a cruiser.
The XKR in the right colour and with the right wheels can look stunning. A lot faster than the 840 too, and can be made even more so with a simple cheap pulley upgrade.
They are more of a cruiser.
The XKR in the right colour and with the right wheels can look stunning. A lot faster than the 840 too, and can be made even more so with a simple cheap pulley upgrade.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff