Cheap "Performance" Diesels?
Discussion
Mr-B said:
Welshbeef said:
This is all perception.
I don't think there was much 'lag' between us, I had already made my mind up I was going to get up to speed quickly as I came off the island right behind the VRS. As we came off the island line astern there was another car ahead that we overtook together and judging by his line immediately off the roundabout I guessed he was going to overtake this other car. I know he was pushing it too judging by the smoke from his exhaust.We were not 'racing' in any way and I could probably have out dragged him had I really pushed it, but I would have had to give it max to do so and didn't actually want to do that, I wanted to keep up just to gauge how quick he was. I'd heard they were nippy little motors and they are.
I think its the performance discussion on these cars has gone full circle over the past few years. Initially it was seen as a slow diesel, then people realised they were actually quite brisk. Now they are spoken about like they are faster than they are!
I speak from experiance, two close friends have mapped Ibiza Fr's. Even when my 123d is on standard power (exactly same as standard e46 330d) it quite easily beats the remapped Fr's. (5 car lengths easily from 20-100) much to their annoyance.
What I'm saying is, theres no "I could probably have out dragged him" you definately would have done, by a reasonable margin.(bearing in mind there isn't a large price descrepancy between a VRS and a 330d it isn't all that impressive)
Mr-B said:
I don't think there was much 'lag' between us, I had already made my mind up I was going to get up to speed quickly as I came off the island right behind the VRS. As we came off the island line astern there was another car ahead that we overtook together and judging by his line immediately off the roundabout I guessed he was going to overtake this other car. I know he was pushing it too judging by the smoke from his exhaust.
We were not 'racing' in any way and I could probably have out dragged him had I really pushed it, but I would have had to give it max to do so and didn't actually want to do that, I wanted to keep up just to gauge how quick he was. I'd heard they were nippy little motors and they are.
I had a drag against a 268bhp 330i the other day off the round a bout dual carriageway he floored it do did I. I had the jump on him however we gave up when leptons got to .125 shall we say. There was no way he could pass me I had the initial advantage and he gradually came back. We were not 'racing' in any way and I could probably have out dragged him had I really pushed it, but I would have had to give it max to do so and didn't actually want to do that, I wanted to keep up just to gauge how quick he was. I'd heard they were nippy little motors and they are.
Thumbs up after that bit of fun.
muffinmenace said:
George H said:
Weren't Audi working on a V12 TDI R8 a while back? Not sure what happened to that.
I'd wager it would have cost an arm and a leg in warranty and it was not going to sell outside of Europe.The uninvolving drive might have been something to do with it too.
StottyZr said:
To be fair I think Welshbeef will be closer to the truth or your 330d has problems. The smoke you noticed was because the VRS was mapped (most likely to around 180hp) they barely smoke when standard.
I think its the performance discussion on these cars has gone full circle over the past few years. Initially it was seen as a slow diesel, then people realised they were actually quite brisk. Now they are spoken about like they are faster than they are!
I speak from experiance, two close friends have mapped Ibiza Fr's. Even when my 123d is on standard power (exactly same as standard e46 330d) it quite easily beats the remapped Fr's. (5 car lengths easily from 20-100) much to their annoyance.
What I'm saying is, theres no "I could probably have out dragged him" you definately would have done, by a reasonable margin.(bearing in mind there isn't a large price descrepancy between a VRS and a 330d it isn't all that impressive)
I was deliberately not giving it the full monty just so I could gauage what his VRS was capable of, I'm not saying his car was epic just seemed to have a reasonable turn of speed whether it was mapped or not I don't know. I do know of them being mapped to 180 very easily which drops 0-60 time to around 7 secs. I think its the performance discussion on these cars has gone full circle over the past few years. Initially it was seen as a slow diesel, then people realised they were actually quite brisk. Now they are spoken about like they are faster than they are!
I speak from experiance, two close friends have mapped Ibiza Fr's. Even when my 123d is on standard power (exactly same as standard e46 330d) it quite easily beats the remapped Fr's. (5 car lengths easily from 20-100) much to their annoyance.
What I'm saying is, theres no "I could probably have out dragged him" you definately would have done, by a reasonable margin.(bearing in mind there isn't a large price descrepancy between a VRS and a 330d it isn't all that impressive)
Since I remapped mine I timed a 0-60 to under 7 seconds so I know it's in reasonably good form.
bodhi said:
T16OLE said:
330d`s dont have swirl flaps
Not quite accurate. All autos and the 204bhp manuals had them, the initial 184bhp manuals went without. I know for a fact my 204bhp model had them, as I have the receipt for the work to take them out.- You mean you had a bill for someone to not do anything
Much as I hate to say it, a well driven diesel is a formidable weapon on British roads, unless you are on the motorway or long straight A roads then you will struggle to lose a decent tdi as it has all of its torque & power right where you need it, low to midrange for launching out of tight bends & not punishing being a gear too high or low.
As an every day car my 530d is awesome, however petrol still rules on the pure fun stakes IMHO.
As an every day car my 530d is awesome, however petrol still rules on the pure fun stakes IMHO.
RWD cossie wil said:
Much as I hate to say it, a well driven diesel is a formidable weapon on British roads, unless you are on the motorway or long straight A roads then you will struggle to lose a decent tdi as it has all of its torque & power right where you need it, low to midrange for launching out of tight bends & not punishing being a gear too high or low.
As an every day car my 530d is awesome, however petrol still rules on the pure fun stakes IMHO.
Plenty of petrols make good mid and low end torque too. And it's all about gearing. Be in the wrong gear and yes any car will struggle. Not remotely convinced average diesels you allude to are anywhere near as quick as a good petrol. Of couse equal power to weight and the it's about power and not diesel vs petrol. Handling and brakes and lack of sanity also play a big part on public roads. As an every day car my 530d is awesome, however petrol still rules on the pure fun stakes IMHO.
VRS fabias are reasonably quick, I had one. Particularly midrange but like all diesels give the perception of being really quick day to day but when you ask a bit more from them they come up short. The 182 I replaced it with was a lot faster. No doubt some will be thinking "obviously, lighter car with more power" but at the time a number of people swore down the fabia could keep pace due to the torque. Sure an different driving style is required but if you do then there is a fair old gulf in performance.
The 172/182 average about 34 mpg in my hands with not particularly gentle driving. Frankly the fabia didn't do much better. Something to think about.
The 172/182 average about 34 mpg in my hands with not particularly gentle driving. Frankly the fabia didn't do much better. Something to think about.
TameRacingDriver said:
VRS fabias are reasonably quick, I had one. Particularly midrange but like all diesels give the perception of being really quick day to day but when you ask a bit more from them they come up short. The 182 I replaced it with was a lot faster. No doubt some will be thinking "obviously, lighter car with more power" but at the time a number of people swore down the fabia could keep pace due to the torque. Sure an different driving style is required but if you do then there is a fair old gulf in performance.
The 172/182 average about 34 mpg in my hands with not particularly gentle driving. Frankly the fabia didn't do much better. Something to think about.
I bought a Fabia new in 2005 and used angel tuning. It was every bit as fast as a Clio182, faster than a Cooper S, and could just about keep up with a Civic type R, if driven properly and changing up before it feels "right"The 172/182 average about 34 mpg in my hands with not particularly gentle driving. Frankly the fabia didn't do much better. Something to think about.
I reckon yours was not right as I regulary achieved very late 30's driving pretty hard on my motorway journeys. Usually about 44mpg was the norm, but saving fuel over 50 was not difficult to achieve.
I knew a couple of others that were similar.
Your figures were similar to mine so i doubt there was anything wrong with it. I'm also comparing standard for standard. The standard turbo and brakes struggled to cope with the power it had when driven hard. Clutches were a problem also when remapped.
ETA when I got the 182 I left a PHer a long way behind in a standard VRS.
ETA when I got the 182 I left a PHer a long way behind in a standard VRS.
TameRacingDriver said:
The 172/182 average about 34 mpg in my hands with not particularly gentle driving.
How ? I've got a 182 Cup and can't get to average over 28.; My car has 52k and has been serviced regularly. I do a mix of motorway, town and country driving.By the way I really can't see how performance and Diesel can go in the same sentence yet as there aren't any sports cars that are diesels. You can have a run of the mill mass produced car which is diesel and marketed well but no performance cars ? Correct me if I'm wrong though
TameRacingDriver said:
Your figures were similar to mine so i doubt there was anything wrong with it. I'm also comparing standard for standard. The standard turbo and brakes struggled to cope with the power it had when driven hard. Clutches were a problem also when remapped.
ETA when I got the 182 I left a PHer a long way behind in a standard VRS.
130bhp vs 182 is hardley suprising.ETA when I got the 182 I left a PHer a long way behind in a standard VRS.
My car was new I did 33000 trouble free miles with it remapped, so reliabilty wasnt a problem for me.
The remap transformed the car. Standard it was a diesel Fabia, nothing special really. Our Starlet Glanza felt faster.
please stop it.Special K said:
How ? I've got a 182 Cup and can't get to average over 28.; My car has 52k and has been serviced regularly. I do a mix of motorway, town and country driving.
By the way I really can't see how performance and Diesel can go in the same sentence yet as there aren't any sports cars that are diesels. You can have a run of the mill mass produced car which is diesel and marketed well but no performance cars ? Correct me if I'm wrong though
My 182 returned similar. My 172 returns a bit more. A few reasons for this IMO. My phase 1 has taller gearing and is lighter. I'm older now so my driving style, while still brisk is probably a little different these days. I got 310 miles it of just shy of 60 quid v-power on my last tank. By the way I really can't see how performance and Diesel can go in the same sentence yet as there aren't any sports cars that are diesels. You can have a run of the mill mass produced car which is diesel and marketed well but no performance cars ? Correct me if I'm wrong though
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