Pretend What Car - Classic 2+2, ideally with a V8
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
renrut said:
I find it hard to believe that some of the 80s and 90s v8s with fuel injection would struggle to do 30mpg over a distance in a sleek coupe when a saloon can manage it. I have looked over the real world MPG Wiki and it does suggest that sub 4.5L V8s can manage over 30mpg. People say an early XKR can do 28mpg FFS.
840i BMW sounds interesting but what are they like on fuel?
Thing is, the early 1996 XK8 used largely the same engine as the one today does. Maybe some changes in the software, but it's a lot more similar than you'd think.840i BMW sounds interesting but what are they like on fuel?
Todays XK8 only rated at 25mpg (Parkers). So while it might be possible to extract 30mpg from one, you really shouldn't make it a target. Jumping in it and blasting up the M1 then off onto the country roads for an hour will likely result in well below 30mpg as a real true "mode" average. Personally I'd say an XK8 is more like 19-22mpg normal use +-5mpg for the extremes of cruising or hooning.
The BMW 840i is a BIG and HEAVY car. Parkers claim 1895kg, that's nearly 350kg heavier than my Camaro.
They also claim 22mpg.... so in the teens will likely be frequent.Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 10th January 14:22
PS Parkers info is best taken with a pinch of salt and often only 'combined' figures.
renrut said:
FFS 300 - reread the post! I'm not asking for a car that will do 30mpg come rain or shine, I want one that when I go to visit family up or down the country I can take it knowing with a gentle right foot and a steady pace in clear traffic I can get something near 30mpg and therefore won't feel like I'm throwing £5s out the window every mile. I don't want one that will do 30mpg while setting sub 10s ETs or lap records at Silverstone as thats just dreamland ridiculous. I KNOW a big V8 or similar will struggle to get 20mpg round town but thats OK because I will enjoy it when I do and it'll be an occasion.
PS Parkers info is best taken with a pinch of salt and often only 'combined' figures.
That is my exact point though, I think you are being unrealistic to expect 30mpg (or maybe even 28mpg) when you "go visit family" in almost all of the cars mentioned in this thread.PS Parkers info is best taken with a pinch of salt and often only 'combined' figures.
If I brimmed our 6.0 XJ12 and jumped straight on the motorway with the cruise at 65mph it'd do 21-22mpg. But I'd only be lying to myself to really think I could budget fuel costs on that mpg, even for a "run". As soon as you are off the m-way you'll be down to 14-16mpg.
An XK8, TVR or many others won't be hugely different in behaviour. Even my Camaro which I know has done 31mpg is not the figure I'd budget too. 24mpg is the average I use as over a year that is the most likely figure it'll attain.
Sexual Chocolate said:
kambites said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
Masserati 3200 GT.
30mpg? Maybe on the back of a recovery truck. 
Still meets a lot of the critria though.
The most optimistic figure for distance economy on the wiki is 20mpg.
kambites said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
kambites said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
Masserati 3200 GT.
30mpg? Maybe on the back of a recovery truck. Still meets a lot of the critria though.
The most optimistic figure for distance economy on the wiki is 20mpg.
If money matters I'd rather pay a little more on fuel for a car that is a) less likely to break and b) cheaper and easier to fix if it does.
300bhp/ton said:
That is my exact point though, I think you are being unrealistic to expect 30mpg (or maybe even 28mpg) when you "go visit family" in almost all of the cars mentioned in this thread.
If I brimmed our 6.0 XJ12 and jumped straight on the motorway with the cruise at 65mph it'd do 21-22mpg. But I'd only be lying to myself to really think I could budget fuel costs on that mpg, even for a "run". As soon as you are off the m-way you'll be down to 14-16mpg.
An XK8, TVR or many others won't be hugely different in behaviour. Even my Camaro which I know has done 31mpg is not the figure I'd budget too. 24mpg is the average I use as over a year that is the most likely figure it'll attain.
Where fuel economy is important will be when visiting family who are at different ends of the country, fortunately none that far from a motorway. So I might drive 200 miles on the motorway at circa 30mpg cruise and then 8 off it at the other end at say 15mpg that gives 6.67 gallons + 0.5 gallon off motorway = 7.7 gallons. If I was getting say 18mpg all the time thats more like 11.6 gallons for a one way trip or near £25 difference in the pocket each way.If I brimmed our 6.0 XJ12 and jumped straight on the motorway with the cruise at 65mph it'd do 21-22mpg. But I'd only be lying to myself to really think I could budget fuel costs on that mpg, even for a "run". As soon as you are off the m-way you'll be down to 14-16mpg.
An XK8, TVR or many others won't be hugely different in behaviour. Even my Camaro which I know has done 31mpg is not the figure I'd budget too. 24mpg is the average I use as over a year that is the most likely figure it'll attain.
I do these sort of trips ~4 times a year and would in reality would make up the majority of the mileage on the car so cruising mpg is far more important than round town. Even the 'round town' mileage won't be creeping in bunged up city traffic but A roads and country lanes. If I know I'm gonna be sat in stop-start traffic I'll take one of the diesels and enjoy 40-60mpg.
I'm well aware I could burn that saving by taking snake pass or woodhead pass to see the BIL but then I'd have that saving to burn and feel 'guilt free' doing it.
I really didn't want this to turn into a discussion about fuel economy but on interesting weekend 2+2s
A cheap 3200GT sounds like an expensive engine failure waiting to happen but at least a (10) grand italian.
ETA - You'll note the ONLY part of my original spec were:
This car must be capable of seating myself, my missus and young child still in car seat safely.
I *need* acceleration.
I *need* capable handling with good steering feedback.
The rest was a wish list hoping for something that bore that wish list in mind but kept to those 3 requirements. Safely can be taken to mean in a proper car seat not on the roof rack, in a trailer or riding the dog that I've tied to the towbar!
Edited by renrut on Thursday 10th January 15:55
el romeral said:
10 grand is into the lowest end of the Ferrari Mondial price range. Ticks pretty much all boxes apart from the mpg.
See thats the kind of out of the box thinking I was looking for! What are they like mpg wise? Sounds like a perfect option but I thought they were more like £15k than £10k?Thats the cheapest I could find.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
For that money I still think you'll struggle to truly better a nice Mustang (or Fbody). They do all the things you are asking for better than any others listed.
Sure they are a little mass produced inside and LHD. But they tick more boxes than any other and more capably.
XK8 is very nice and I personally quite like 996 C2's, but either would be a trade off for one or more points.
Sure they are a little mass produced inside and LHD. But they tick more boxes than any other and more capably.
XK8 is very nice and I personally quite like 996 C2's, but either would be a trade off for one or more points.
renrut said:
See thats the kind of out of the box thinking I was looking for! What are they like mpg wise? Sounds like a perfect option but I thought they were more like £15k than £10k?
Thats the cheapest I could find.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
£11450 for this one:Thats the cheapest I could find.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
A few months ago there were 2 or 3 for 10 grand.
No experience of the mpg, but I suspect nearer 20 than 30.
Edited by el romeral on Thursday 10th January 16:12
The Mondial could be found under 10k perhaps a couple of years ago, but unfortunately the classic car market appears to be booming again at the moment, looks like you might struggle to find a good one close to budget. Apparently they are lovely to drive though. Same for the 308 GT4 and the 400i, the traditional Ferrari bargains. All about 20k ave now.
renrut said:
el romeral said:
10 grand is into the lowest end of the Ferrari Mondial price range. Ticks pretty much all boxes apart from the mpg.
See thats the kind of out of the box thinking I was looking for! What are they like mpg wise? Sounds like a perfect option but I thought they were more like £15k than £10k?Thats the cheapest I could find.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
I've not been in one, but I think they aren't as fast as you might think they should be. No idea on the handling or steering feel though.
From your list:
| I *need* acceleration. | a bit mixed here. QV models with 3.2 I think are quicker. Google seems to say 7.3-7.5sec 0-60mph for the 3.0 and not a huge top speed either. I think performance would be considered "sporting" rather than quick and a descent EP3 Civic might upset you |
| I *need* capable handling with good steering feedback. | I don't know |
| I would like classic car looks and style. | Check, heaps of style |
| I would like something different from the pack, so old or interesting or quirky a plus. | Check! |
| I wouldn't like to spend more than about £10K but this is just a 'guide price'. | I'm guessing £12-16k would be a safer bet and maybe some means of contingency should you need it |
| I would like a vaguely usable boot for an overnight stay somewhere | Think this is a bit of fail really. Especially if you are making use of the extra seats for people. If not then it actually has quite a lot of stowage space for two people |
| I would like it to be capable of 30mpg on a run | Google was less help here than I hoped. I did find some US EPA figures of 9mpg city and 15mpg highway. Converted to imperial would mean more like 11-18mpg. I'd hope they are better than this, but I think 30mpg or anything near is a pipe dream tbh |
| I would like a soft top or targa but coupe is fine. | Coupe looks way better IMO and spyder likely way out of budget |
| I like spannering but I don't want to have to spend 10yrs restoring a pile of rust to a car shape. | I think you need to buy wise and accept there is a real risk of buying trouble. I'm sure they aren't as bad to maintain as some would make out, but access to the engine is limited and some bits will cost. Also Ferrari's aren't exactly known for reliability/durability |
| I would like a V8 | check although it won't offer a Detroit style rumble and may need an after market exhaust to truly make it sing |
300bhp is right, if you want fast, the Mondial isn't it. The QVs won't be so bad, and I don't know much about the 3.2s, but they should be a bit better still, but it will probably take a Mondial T, with the 348's engine, to fight off any half decent modern hot hatch and they will be well over budget I'd think.
All tests of Mondials that I have read, from 8s through to Ts, have cited excellent steering and overall feedback. They are good to drive. I also believe they are fairly simple to work on, there's not a lot of electrickery in the engine bay.
EDIT: Oh, and here's a really left field one if you're feeling particularly brave.... how about a Maserati Biturbo? Ticks almost none of your boxes, but the coupes and the four door 442 (or something) will take a child seat - I think - and they are fast. When they're working, and when they're facing the right way. I remember Fast Lane testing one or other coupe version and stating "The owner's manual describes the rear suspension as 'independent'. 'Rebellious' would be a better word." But for its many, many faults, the Biturbos do have an odd charm and are often well under 10k.
All tests of Mondials that I have read, from 8s through to Ts, have cited excellent steering and overall feedback. They are good to drive. I also believe they are fairly simple to work on, there's not a lot of electrickery in the engine bay.
EDIT: Oh, and here's a really left field one if you're feeling particularly brave.... how about a Maserati Biturbo? Ticks almost none of your boxes, but the coupes and the four door 442 (or something) will take a child seat - I think - and they are fast. When they're working, and when they're facing the right way. I remember Fast Lane testing one or other coupe version and stating "The owner's manual describes the rear suspension as 'independent'. 'Rebellious' would be a better word." But for its many, many faults, the Biturbos do have an odd charm and are often well under 10k.
Edited by Alfanatic on Thursday 10th January 16:34
Edited by Alfanatic on Thursday 10th January 16:37
Bi turbo is interesting but I really don't like the look of them. I do like the 80s angular + pop up head lights though so a Mondial is really my cup of tea. Prices look a bit steep though. Same with the more classic looking 911s, a 996 is within grasp. I suppose I could always save up a bit longer.
If I drop the 'interesting engine' wish list things open up hugely - Integra Type R for example. But I suppose there are still things like Skyline, 300ZX, Supra, RX7 with less than run of the mill engines but possibly a bit juicy.
If I drop the 'interesting engine' wish list things open up hugely - Integra Type R for example. But I suppose there are still things like Skyline, 300ZX, Supra, RX7 with less than run of the mill engines but possibly a bit juicy.
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