RE: New Caterham Seven revealed
Discussion
StottyZr said:
I remember asking where the value is a year or two back. The only plasuible answer I found was in the research&development costs.
what research&delevlopment cost? they used same chassis since the earth was created! Ford fiesta ST with 182hp 1.6 ecoboost is £16,995. that came with roof, full doors, and creature comfort etc... and new panels etc etc that makes caterham look very bad value.
vrooom said:
what research&delevlopment cost? they used same chassis since the earth was created!
Ford fiesta ST with 182hp 1.6 ecoboost is £16,995. that came with roof, full doors, and creature comfort etc... and new panels etc etc that makes caterham look very bad value.
Well yes. Until you drive down a twisty road. Then the Caterham feels much better value.Ford fiesta ST with 182hp 1.6 ecoboost is £16,995. that came with roof, full doors, and creature comfort etc... and new panels etc etc that makes caterham look very bad value.
That's where the value lies for me, in the performance, feedback, driving experience available.
StottyZr said:
J4CKO said:
vrooom said:
still £10k too much.
Perhaps not at 17 grand but I kind of see your point, they always seem inordinately expensive for a stripped out car based on a tubular steel frame with not that much attached to it. I suppose it is down to economies of scale, labour intensive build (for a full built one !) or whatever. When you take depreciation into consideration they dont seem that bad,especially if you buy one second hand.They need to make a profit but they seem to be over what I would anticpate, I wonder what would happen if the Chinese decided to knock out a Seven type car for say 11/12 grand, I bet it could be done cheaper than that, if Dacia can flog a Sandero for six grand I am sure a Chinese factory can produce decent seven type cars for little money, probably not worth their while as it is a niche product and they wouldnt sell that many.
J4CKO said:
Er, didnt Lotus do that back in the dim and distant past, engines are bought in from other manufacturers who have done their R and D already.
They need to make a profit but they seem to be over what I would anticpate, I wonder what would happen if the Chinese decided to knock out a Seven type car for say 11/12 grand, I bet it could be done cheaper than that, if Dacia can flog a Sandero for six grand I am sure a Chinese factory can produce decent seven type cars for little money, probably not worth their while as it is a niche product and they wouldnt sell that many.
There are loads of 7-esque cars available out there already for much less than a Caterham. Despite this, Caterham still sell the 7 relatively successfully, in a small market.They need to make a profit but they seem to be over what I would anticpate, I wonder what would happen if the Chinese decided to knock out a Seven type car for say 11/12 grand, I bet it could be done cheaper than that, if Dacia can flog a Sandero for six grand I am sure a Chinese factory can produce decent seven type cars for little money, probably not worth their while as it is a niche product and they wouldnt sell that many.
I reckon lowering the entry-cost to Caterham ownership is a great plan - owners tend to upgrade and often those upgrades are factory-sourced, so getting more people on the 7 ladder is key.
All very exciting as the last of the old 1.4 K-series engined Classics are done. Be interesting to see what happens to residuals too as everything is shuffling up in value. Old Kent or Vauxhall engined £7-£10K with K-series seem to start at £12K and former Academy Sigmas at £15K. For all the cries of overpriced, if I had got my act together and bought a 02 Roadsport 4 years ago, it would have appreciated in that time. £17K is the cost of a Fiesta ST (which you don't have to build yourself) but until you have actually taken a Se7en for a drive you can have little idea what these machines do to a stretch of twisty road. One day....
vrooom said:
Ford fiesta ST with 182hp 1.6 ecoboost is £16,995. that came with roof, full doors, and creature comfort etc... and new panels etc etc that makes caterham look very bad value.
The Fiesta ST is a global car from a huge manufacturer (with significant product range), using a not insignificant number of parts from one of the better selling cars in the world, I would guess the economies of scale are a little different, never mind the fact that Caterham have to basically survive on the profits of these alone.vrooom said:
Ford fiesta ST with 182hp 1.6 ecoboost is £16,995. that came with roof, full doors, and creature comfort etc... and new panels etc etc that makes caterham look very bad value.
Ford Fiesta with different small four pot is less than ten grand and I suspect costs Ford very little less to manufacture. It's amazing how people think a mass produced car with a bit more power and a 70% mark-up somehow constitutes great value for money. See also BMW M135i.I suspect few people buy Caterham because they are slow to depreciate.
If you want a kit car then a Fiesta is not likely to be on your short list.
Labour intensive manufacturing and expensive UK overheads go a long way towards making these cars the price they are.
Personally when I was considering a Lotus 7 type car I ultimately ended up with a VX220. I knew that the driving experience would not be the same, but on the second-hand market I thought it and the Elise offered better value for money, but with greater usability and a higher level or R&D.
If you want a kit car then a Fiesta is not likely to be on your short list.
Labour intensive manufacturing and expensive UK overheads go a long way towards making these cars the price they are.
Personally when I was considering a Lotus 7 type car I ultimately ended up with a VX220. I knew that the driving experience would not be the same, but on the second-hand market I thought it and the Elise offered better value for money, but with greater usability and a higher level or R&D.
First thought: Twingo engine.
Second thought: (and forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here as I haven't checked the spec) but Caterham/Renault recently released pics of a new 'Alpine' concept with a four-cylinder engine in the middle and RWD I think. Could a NA/detuned version of that engine find its way into this Seven?
Second thought: (and forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here as I haven't checked the spec) but Caterham/Renault recently released pics of a new 'Alpine' concept with a four-cylinder engine in the middle and RWD I think. Could a NA/detuned version of that engine find its way into this Seven?
scarble said:
An F4R would be lovely in a Caterham. 2L N/A, 190ish horsies and a good spread of torque. As used in Formula Renault.
None of this turbo lag nonsense.
I may have been joking (badly) about them all looking the same
How tall is it and how much does it weigh? Those are two of the usual issues when deciding on a different engine in a 7.None of this turbo lag nonsense.
I may have been joking (badly) about them all looking the same
Richyboy said:
Jesus christ they're slow to do stuff, surely the market is crying out for an affordable caterham. I wish they were as fast as their cars.
Is the market for Caterhams really significantly limited by who can afford them, or by who (a) wants one and (b) can live with one? Total cost of ownership is very reasonable given the low depreciation, certainly less than something like a new hot hatch.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff